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Old 02-04-2012   #1
mussop
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Default "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

I know I know all you Mario man crushers are insisting we will resign Mario but WHAT IF he gets an offer that we can't justify matching? Then what? I present you with

plan A : Carl Nicks, G, Saints. Age: 27.
Carl Nicks is arguably the top guard in all of football. He has no
weaknesses to his game; his blasts open huge holes for his running back,
and he seldom allows a quarterback pressure. He was whistled for only two
penalties all year.

Use the money we were going to give to Mario and lock up the best OG in the NFL. Even the top OG's dont make what Mario is going to command on the open market.

plan B: Paul Soliai, NT, Dolphins. Age: 28.
At 6-4, 355 pounds, Paul Soliai is a monstrous, run-stuffing nose tackle.
He made $12.3 million with the franchise tag this season.

It could be argued that either of these guys could be more valuable to the Texans than Mario.

plan C: Calais Campbell, DE/DT, Cardinals. Age: 26.
You could argue that aside from Justin Smith, Calais Campbell is the best 3-4 defensive end in all of football. Campbell has no weaknesses; he's a ferocious pass-rusher, he blocks kicks, and he can even drop into coverage pretty well. And he'll be 25 until Sept. 1.

A younger version of Mario?

plan D: Vincent Jackson, WR, Chargers, Chargers. Age: 29.
Vincent Jackson amazingly has never caught more than 68 passes in a single season, but with his size (6-5, 230) and downfield ability, he's one of the top physical talents at the wide receiver position in the NFL.

Imagine what he would do for AJ's career.

plan E: Kendall Langford, DE/DT, Dolphins. Age: 26.
Kendall Langford is a really good, young five-tech who excels in both stopping the run and putting pressure on the quarterback.

AND

Wesley Woodyard, OLB, Broncos. Age: 26.
Wesley Woodyard could be a starting weakside linebacker somewhere,
but didn't get the opportunity to play at that position this past year
because of D.J. Williams.

AND

Dan Connor, ILB, Panthers. Age: 26.
Don't expect Dan Connor to be back with the Panthers; otherwise,
he'll have to play behind Jon Beason. Connor is talented and young,
and could easily be a starter somewhere else.

Three for the price of one! All good young players that already have shown they can produce with lots of upside that would add solid depth.
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Old 02-04-2012   #2
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

I thought you were going to stop obsessing over this
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Old 02-04-2012   #3
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I thought you were going to stop obsessing over this
I never said that. This isn't about arguing whether or not we should retain him or his worth to the team. Its a discussion about what direction should we go in if "GOD FORBID" we loose him.
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Old 02-04-2012   #4
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

i say we use the money from mario to either A) get another good WR to put on the field with AJ or B) Find a good #2 CB, yes i think KJ had a good year but i think he looked good because our front 7 was good.
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Old 02-04-2012   #5
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

Those of you that expect us to let Mario walk and use the extra money to sign 1 or 2 top FA's will be very disappointed. We are already over the cap so letting Mario walk will allow us to re-sign our FA's and give Foster a new deal. Restructure a few contracts and we will be able to sign a vet or two in FA and then sign our draft picks.

We aren't going to be landing guys like Nicks or Jackson.
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Old 02-04-2012   #6
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

Plan A and C will both be franchise tagged if a deal can't be reached. The Saints will make sure Brees gets a contract and Nicks is #2 priority to them.
The Cards don't really have pressing issues with their own free agents, and Campbell the main one worth resigning. He'd have to say "I don't want to be here" in order for a contract to not be reached, and if he does they'll use the tag. If by some miracle he does hit the market because he's looking for a payday we'd be tying up alot of future money at the 34 DE spot, although Smith would be gone at that time.
I'm pretty sure both of those teams aren't hurting in the cap area though.
Plan B depends entirely on if Wade wants him, plus Soliai will be looking for his last big payday for a specialized elite 34 NT spot. It's highly likely they let Soliai walk, but they need to retain Plan E Langford no matter what type of defense they decide to walk. They'll be running low on DLine depth if they let both go.
I'm really not interested in a high profile WR "unless" mario goes. I don't know if Vincent Jackson would fit our offense though. He's more of a big play guy I think. Plus he wants alot of money
I'm all for the ILB depth. Those are great value FA's too, but they wouldn't start here either, if they think they are good enough to start and get starters salary they won't land here.
This years FA crop doesn't really excite me like previous years. 1 because I believe that our team has most of the elite FA prospects, and 2 the other teams with elite FA prospects will likely Resign or tag those players.
There are a few B-list player's I'd like but priority #1 is Myers, Brisiel, and Foster (and Mario)
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Old 02-04-2012   #7
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Those of you that expect us to let Mario walk and use the extra money to sign 1 or 2 top FA's will be very disappointed. We are already over the cap so letting Mario walk will allow us to re-sign our FA's and give Foster a new deal. Restructure a few contracts and we will be able to sign a vet or two in FA and then sign our draft picks.

We aren't going to be landing guys like Nicks or Jackson.
anybody over jacoby is an upgrade, hell i dont care if we draft a WR but to me another WR and CB is more important than finding a replacment for Mario.
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Old 02-04-2012   #8
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Those of you that expect us to let Mario walk and use the extra money to sign 1 or 2 top FA's will be very disappointed. We are already over the cap so letting Mario walk will allow us to re-sign our FA's and give Foster a new deal. Restructure a few contracts and we will be able to sign a vet or two in FA and then sign our draft picks.

We aren't going to be landing guys like Nicks or Jackson.
I'm sorry did you say something? I got lost in your avatar. Oh yeh, if thats the case then how do you expect us to sign Mario and all our FA's?
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Old 02-04-2012   #9
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by Brandon420tx View Post
Plan A and C will both be franchise tagged if a deal can't be reached. The Saints will make sure Brees gets a contract and Nicks is #2 priority to them.

Then maybe we should be looking at Marques Colston.

The Cards don't really have pressing issues with their own free agents, and Campbell the main one worth resigning. He'd have to say "I don't want to be here" in order for a contract to not be reached, and if he does they'll use the tag. If by some miracle he does hit the market because he's looking for a payday we'd be tying up alot of future money at the 34 DE spot, although Smith would be gone at that time.
I'm pretty sure both of those teams aren't hurting in the cap area though.

Plan B depends entirely on if Wade wants him, plus Soliai will be looking for his last big payday for a specialized elite 34 NT spot. It's highly likely they let Soliai walk, but they need to retain Plan E Langford no matter what type of defense they decide to walk. They'll be running low on DLine depth if they let both go.

Why wouldn't wade want a top shelf DT?

I'm really not interested in a high profile WR "unless" mario goes. I don't know if Vincent Jackson would fit our offense though. He's more of a big play guy I think. Plus he wants alot of money

All FA's want alot of money. I thought a big play WR is what everyone wanted. A speedy big WR that can block and stretch the field seems like perfect fit to me.

I'm all for the ILB depth. Those are great value FA's too, but they wouldn't start here either, if they think they are good enough to start and get starters salary they won't land here.

They could all be rotation players right now and eventual starters for one of the top defenses and a playoff caliber team. Thats a nice selling point.

This years FA crop doesn't really excite me like previous years. 1 because I believe that our team has most of the elite FA prospects, and 2 the other teams with elite FA prospects will likely Resign or tag those players.
There are a few B-list player's I'd like but priority #1 is Myers, Brisiel, and Foster (and Mario)
I wouldn't mind seeing us take a look at some of the lesser known FA's to replace some of our current FA's


Guys like

Wesley Woodyard, OLB, Broncos. Age: 26.
Wesley Woodyard could be a starting weakside linebacker somewhere,
but didn't get the opportunity to play at that position this past year
because of D.J. Williams.

Dan Connor, ILB, Panthers. Age: 26.
Don't expect Dan Connor to be back with the Panthers; otherwise,
he'll have to play behind Jon Beason. Connor is talented and young,
and could easily be a starter somewhere else.

Richard Marshall, CB, Cardinals. Age: 27.
Richard Marshall played pretty well at corner in the second
half of the year. He was also effective in stepping in for an
injured Kerry Rhodes at free safety.

William Middleton, CB, Jaguars. Age: 26.
William Middleton doesn't have much NFL experience, but he
handled himself really well in relief of Derek Cox and Rashean
Mathis in 2011. He's a young corner with loads of potential.

Pierre Garcon, WR, Colts. Age: 26.

Owen Schmitt, FB, Eagles. Age: 27

Jeremy Zuttah, G/C, Buccaneers. Age: 26.
Jeremy Zuttah is a decent lineman who can play multiple positions.

And I wouldn't mind bringing in a one year rental like

Reggie Wayne, WR, Colts. Age: 33.
Reggie Wayne turns 34 in November. He might still be able to get
it done as a No.2 receiver somewhere next year.
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Old 02-05-2012   #10
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

"IF" Mario walks then...

Plan A will not happen regardless if the Saints sign him or not. He is ideal for a downhill running team not a zone blocking team like the Texans. There's no point in investing around $8 million for a high profile OG, unless we plan on changing systems.

Plan B I think Cody did a nice job. He made around $12 million, which is the price for a top NT. He would be no cheaper than Mario. If they are interested in a larger NT they will address it in the draft.


Plan C He is young. He is 6-8 300 freakish size and very disruptive and perfect as a 3-4 DE. Has been very productive over the past to year. Younger Mario Williams? I don't think so. He is 25. Mario is 26. Not much age difference. He is primarily a 3-4 DE. Mario played 3-4 OLB, begin his career as a 4-3 DE, and I believe Wade had plans on using him as a 3-4 DE to share the field with Barwin and Reed. So I think Williams is a more versatile player. Nevertheless, I don't think the Cardinals will let someone as talented as Campbell walk. Plus we have JJ Watt and Antonio Smith both have had solid seasons and both demand the occasional double team which frees up our edge rushers. So I think we're fine in that category (especially "IF" we resign Williams).

Plan D Wouldn't that be nice...too bad it's not happening. If we go after a FA WR it should be after a lesser name like Pierre Garcon, Robert Meachem, or my favorite Laurent Robinson. Otherwise, we will most likely address WR in the draft.

Plan E I think we're fine with Antonio and JJ.


"IF" Mario walks, then we will most likely try to address depth in the draft instead of FA. But we would be deep WITH Mario, so I hope we can sign him to a long term deal.
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Old 02-05-2012   #11
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

I'm a little worried about the clamor to sign WR's like Wayne, Garcon & Meachem, Wayne looked great with Manning chucking it at him, Garcon looked good with Manning throwing it at him, Meachem looked decent in patches with Brees throwing it at him.

Now, we've seen this year how Peyton Manning even elevated the play of his defense with how long he makes drives last, so what illusion he's having on his WR's worries me.

Wayne didn't quite make it to 1000 yards this season, now is that what happens when Peyton isn't throwing it to him (which we won't have) or is that his increasing age (even worse for a prospective bidder)

Garcon put up career numbers this season just gone, that gives me hope, maybe he's a good option for the longer term??
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Old 02-05-2012   #12
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

I dont think it is a "if" Mario walks....its a "when"....
Mario is going to want more money than the Texans can afford. He is going to want "elite" defensive end money. We have other issues to address as well.....such as a young wide receiver....another cornerback.....and resigning of some of the other players on the team.
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Old 02-05-2012   #13
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

What I don't get is the people saying 'sign him at any cost' and those saying 'cut him no matter how little he costs' as well as the incredible expertise shown about the intricacies of the Texans' cap situation.

If Mario walks, I'll assume that we are closer to having a cap problem than I thought. In that situation, I don't see much chance of us signing anyone in FA who's going to make an impact, because if they've got the money, they're going to use it to tie up Mario.

Dalemurphy seems to be of the opinion that the have to let Mario walk because of his cap implications, yet they're going to be able to go out and sign a 1b WR, 1b CB stud NT and replacement stud OLB for the same sort of cash. Not a hope in hell that that scenario plays out.

The only way Mario walks and Houston has money to spend, is if its Mario's choice to move.
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Old 02-05-2012   #14
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

I have no idea why people want to go after Robert Meacham. He's a WR3. Saints fans don't want him back...
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Old 02-05-2012   #15
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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I have no idea why people want to go after Robert Meacham. He's a WR3. Saints fans don't want him back...
This puzzles me also. Maybe it's because he'll probably be rather "affordable" considering he was a first round pick...

Another thing is we don't know how our P/S WRs (Iglesias, Maehl, and Jean) could develop with a full set of OTAs and training camp under their belts. While I'm not against going the F/A route, I just think the draft or one of these guys is where we will find our Jacoby replacement unit. Especially given our cap situation.

Last edited by ObsiWan; 02-05-2012 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 02-05-2012   #16
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

Agree'd if we're going to go after a B-list WR I'd rather take Harry Douglas or Eddie Royal. Meacham = C list in my eyes
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Old 02-05-2012   #17
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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This puzzles me also. Maybe it's because he'll probably be rather "affordable" considering he was a first round pick...
Because, what the team needs at WR, IMO, is a WR3 that can step in and be a WR1 when AJ is injured. We don't need to pay for a WR to come in and play 60 snaps a game, make 90 catches for 1300 yards..

What the offense needs is a playmaker at WR. A guy that can stretch/scare the defense with his speed. When AJ's healthy, Meachem is a luxury and may start in some packages. When AJ's injured, Meachem is the key to the offense, not because he's a great WR but because he's a great threat at WR. We need a guy that can demand safety help over the top. Meachem is that guy.

Meachem is young and will cost less than 1/2 the money guys like Vincent Jackson (who I wouldn't mind either), Colston, Wayne will cost. I'm not opposed to guys like Eddie Royal, though I don't think he is as good of a fit.

Oh, and Meachem blocks well.
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Old 02-05-2012   #18
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

Maybe a change of location would improve him but all the Saints fans I know think about as much of Meachem as we do of Jacoby.

ESPN Scouts, Inc...
Quote:
Comment: Meachem is a good-sized receiver with excellent straight-line speed and adequate agility and route-running skills. He is a downfield receiver that does a good job of eating up the cushion on defenders and can use his stride length to sneak by them. He needs work on his hard cuts because he is not great sinking his hips to get in and out of breaks with quick feet and burst. He is best when running under the deep ball and catching it in stride.
That doesn't sound much of a A.J. replacement unit to me.
...but then there are few who could be.
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Old 02-05-2012   #19
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by Brandon420tx View Post
Agree'd if we're going to go after a B-list WR I'd rather take Harry Douglas or Eddie Royal. Meacham = C list in my eyes
I like Douglas myself. He looked pretty good against us when we played the Dirty Birds. I recall him catching a couple of 2nd half passes to move the chains for them.

He would be an improvement at #3 WR but, again, not close to an A.J. replacement unit.
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Old 02-05-2012   #20
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

Never wanted Douglas to replace AJ, that's a matter for the draft, maybe not even this one.
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