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Old 05-04-2005   #1
wags
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Default What surprised you?

What surprised you in the 2005 draft?

For me it's:

-Frank Gore getting drafted early in round three. I thought his two injuries would push him back further.

-Aaron Rogers falling to Green bay at #24. Makes you realize that most teams draft by need now.

-Stanford Routt a high second?

-Maurice Clarett getting drafted on the first day. Unbelievable. Next year I'm entering the draft and I expect Denver to pick me up in round 2.

-Shazor going undrafted. Didn't watch much of him, but he was so hyped.

-Elton Brown falling to round 4.

-Fred Gibson did not sell his jersey and hat on EBAY.
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Old 05-05-2005   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
What surprised you in the 2005 draft?

For me it's:

-Frank Gore getting drafted early in round three. I thought his two injuries would push him back further.

-Aaron Rogers falling to Green bay at #24. Makes you realize that most teams draft by need now.

-Stanford Routt a high second?

-Maurice Clarett getting drafted on the first day. Unbelievable. Next year I'm entering the draft and I expect Denver to pick me up in round 2.

-Shazor going undrafted. Didn't watch much of him, but he was so hyped.

-Elton Brown falling to round 4.

-Fred Gibson did not sell his jersey and hat on EBAY.
All of those, plus us taking Travis Johnson. I like the pick but I had no idea the office wanted him.

Brandon Browner going undrafted.
KJ Harris going undrafted
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Old 05-05-2005   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdSteelBlue
All of those, plus us taking Travis Johnson. I like the pick but I had no idea the office wanted him.

Brandon Browner going undrafted.
KJ Harris going undrafted
true that

the one football player who surprised me the most who did not get drafted till the 6th round is Antaaj Hawthorne. pot is serious but how serious is his obsession or use of the hemp? I would insist on counseling of course, but see no reason why this issue should plummet him to the bottom of the draft. if he had come out in 2004 he could have been a 1st round pick, this year he tailed off a bit (was this do to his drug afflication?) but still considered by most as 2nd round material.

I was shocked when the Texans passed on him in the 4th even more surprised when they passed on him in the 5th. here is a solid back-up maybe starter for Payne at NT he has ideal size 6-3 331 with a nasty streak good feet, quickness, reads & strength a perfect fit for the 3-4. this one really had/has me
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Old 05-05-2005   #4
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All of those that wags stated.. and..

Detriot Lions drafting Mike Williams

Jason Campbell (sp?) going in the first round.

The Amazing job the Browns did wit drafting.
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Old 05-05-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
-Aaron Rogers falling to Green bay at #24. Makes you realize that most teams draft by need now.
Interesting, I took it the opposite way. Many pundits said Rogers and Smith would have been competing with Losman for the 4th through 6th QB spots in last year's draft. Losman went at #22. Nonetheless because there weren't any prospects like Manning/Rivers/Roethlisberger the mocksters stuck the top two QB's at the top of the boards. Seemed to me this was a case of teams passing on reaching for a QB and letting him fall to the level where he really was bpa.

Fact is the need vs. bpa debate is treated as too black and white. Every team has at least seven needs it can identify. Now do they just disregard those needs and draft true BPA?--of course not. On the other hand, they don't just prioritize the needs without looking at the talent and force whoever is the highest person at that need position ignoring all the other positions either.
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Old 05-05-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Interesting, I took it the opposite way. Many pundits said Rogers and Smith would have been competing with Losman for the 4th through 6th QB spots in last year's draft. Losman went at #22. Nonetheless because there weren't any prospects like Manning/Rivers/Roethlisberger the mocksters stuck the top two QB's at the top of the boards. Seemed to me this was a case of teams passing on reaching for a QB and letting him fall to the level where he really was bpa.

Fact is the need vs. bpa debate is treated as too black and white. Every team has at least seven needs it can identify. Now do they just disregard those needs and draft true BPA?--of course not. On the other hand, they don't just prioritize the needs without looking at the talent and force whoever is the highest person at that need position ignoring all the other positions either.
interesting points cak, to colds credit then GB drafted both BPA & for need with Rogers @ #24, while the 49ers reached taking need over bpa @ #1 with Smith. don't have a problem with either statement, but I would like some clarification with the Texans pick of Johnson.

how does Johnson compare to last years top DT Tommie Harris who was selected I think with the 14th pick by the Bears? maybe someone has access to their power ratings or something but if they are close then at least the Texans drafted pretty well under both BPA/Need regards. I realize now that if Dunta Robinison was not available when the Texans #10 pick was on the clock they very well may have taken Harris instead. just some thoughts
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Old 05-05-2005   #7
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I think the QB's get over hyped every year. I mean, was Phillip Rivers a better choice than lets say, Roy Williams? Or Dunta? I just think people get caught up in finding the next Payton Manning.

Also I feel QB's are too hit or miss. Plus asking a QB to save your team from having a top 5 pick again is alot of pressure.

I would have taken Edwards #1 overall, and seen what a vet QB like Tim could do with him, and Woods.

I just dont like the philosophy of " if you dont dont have a franchise QB, draft one."
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Old 05-05-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
how does Johnson compare to last years top DT Tommie Harris who was selected I think with the 14th pick by the Bears?
My perception is that if Harris, Johnson and Wilfork were all in the same draft, many teams would have ranked them differently. Harris went at 14, Wilfork went at 21. Tubbs seems like he would certainly have been ranked lower than all three and he went #23. Seems to me TJ went in the band he should have.
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Old 05-05-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Seemed to me this was a case of teams passing on reaching for a QB and letting him fall to the level where he really was bpa.
Washington better than Rodgers?

Jones at WR a better player than Rodgers?

Alex Barron and Jamaal Brown over Rodgers?

I just don't think these guys are better football players than Rodgers. Team needs, however kept him from being chosen ahead of them IMO.
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Old 05-05-2005   #10
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Im going to have to agree with coldsteelblue, Houston doesnt need KJ Harris but im surprised he went undrafted.........
and by the way does anyone know,if anyone, has anyone even taken KJ yet??? :brickwall
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Old 05-05-2005   #11
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The Dolphins signed Kay Jay Harris. He was injured often and was accused of dogging it so he had some injury issues and toughness questions surrounding him.
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Old 05-05-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
-Aaron Rogers falling to Green bay at #24. Makes you realize that most teams draft by need now.
Or it may make you realize that a lot of the lofty Mock Draft ratings of some
players are a product of the collective imagination of the news media and the
herd mentality of those who prepare the mocks. Especially if the player is
from a large metro area on the left coast that has some input into the group
think of the national media.
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Old 05-05-2005   #13
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According to SI.com's pre-draft ratings...

Travis Johnson 4.18

Tommie Harris 4.68
Vince Wilfork 4.43
Darnell Dockett 4.30
Isaac Sopoaga 3.93
Marcus Tubbs 3.90
Randy Starks 3.89
Tank Johnson 3.88
Dwan Edwards 3.87
Igor Olshanky 3.85
Donnell Washington 3.83
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Old 05-05-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
Washington better than Rodgers?

Jones at WR a better player than Rodgers?

Alex Barron and Jamaal Brown over Rodgers?

I just don't think these guys are better football players than Rodgers. Team needs, however kept him from being chosen ahead of them IMO.
I will readily confess to not having seen much of Rodgers, but there was plenty of talk before the draft that he and Smith were not as good as the prospects from the last few years and that if a cruddy team in desparate need at the top of the draft didn't reach for him he could fall quite aways. Seems like that is exactly what happened. Green Bay has the time to ease his NFL conversion.

There are all sorts of reasons players don't go at the perceived value of fans--needs reaching, don't fit a system so get passed, GM's really do know more than we do, various levels of gambling mentalities (Matt Jones--he certainly is a 1st round athlete, but is he a 1st round WR?--since he got taken by the Jags, I hope not), and the opposite of need, which commonly gets forgotten about, a complete line-up at a position with depth.
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Old 05-05-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
Or it may make you realize that a lot of the lofty Mock Draft ratings of some
players are a product of the collective imagination of the news media and the
herd mentality of those who prepare the mocks. Especially if the player is
from a large metro area on the left coast that has some input into the group
think of the national media.
I try not base my thoughts on mock drafts or heresay. I thought Rodgers was pretty good, even though he stunk it up in the bowl game.

I agree that there is hype involved in those mocks, and it's not always good to follow them.

Remember when Kiper had Dan Cody as his number 1 prospect?

Sporting News didn't have Thomas Davis in the first round?
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Old 05-05-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
Especially if the player is
from a large metro area on the left coast that has some input into the group
think of the national media.
Usually there is a right coast bias and guys on the left coast are overlooked.
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Old 05-05-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
I try not base my thoughts on mock drafts or heresay. I thought Rodgers was pretty good, even though he stunk it up in the bowl game.
I wasn't very high on Rodgers, but I thought he was better than Kyle Boller when he came out. I still think Rodgers will have a better NFL career than Boller. Keep in mind I might be a little bit biased since Cal absolutely crushed my Baylor Bears to open up our season a couple years ago. I believe they scored something like 80 points or so. :brickwall That was when Steele was still the HC. Needless to say things have improved a bit since Morris has taken over.
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Old 05-05-2005   #18
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My Suprises:

Detroit drafting Mike Williams
NO trading up to get Jamal Brown
Denver taking Maurice Clarett
Stanford routt going in the second
Shazor, Munoz, and Brimmer not getting drafted
Houston passing on whomever else they would have gotten instead of Morency
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Old 05-05-2005   #19
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I was surprised that no linemen were taken in the top 10 - games are won in the trenches.

I was surprised that 7 of the top 10 picks were offensive skill players - when year after year Super Bowls are won with great defenses.

I was surprised that with the burning scrutiny regarding steroids and performance enhancing drugs, a prospect who popped positive on a combine drug test was taken in the 1st round.

I'm continually surprised that some teams never learn from history and take workout warriors with little production high in the draft.

Maybe I should stop being surprised and realize that some teams just don't get it?
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Old 05-06-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS
According to SI.com's pre-draft ratings...

Travis Johnson 4.18

Tommie Harris 4.68
Vince Wilfork 4.43
Darnell Dockett 4.30
Isaac Sopoaga 3.93
Marcus Tubbs 3.90
Randy Starks 3.89
Tank Johnson 3.88
Dwan Edwards 3.87
Igor Olshanky 3.85
Donnell Washington 3.83
thanks for researching some scouting numbers even though I don't agree with them (SI.com) very much at least they offer a starting point. of those listed other than Tommie Harris, Travis best comp may be former FSU standout Darnell Dockett. there seems to be only two issues really holding Travis back that of his injurys to his neck & shoulder along with ADS which has now been identified and treated. otherwise Travis Johnson is a much better prospect as far as potential.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/johnson_travis

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/darnell_dockett

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/tommie_harris
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