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Old 02-03-2012   #61
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

I feel that CB and others wouldnt feel our players are so injury prone if they werent Texans fans who obsesses over every bone bruise or sprain.

I have a feeling that every fan base feels that their players are injury prone. I mean they/we read articles when their player sneezes too hard.
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Old 02-03-2012   #62
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Okay... but if you use injuries sustained the picture gets worse, especially concerning Schaub.
...remember when Schaub slipped going out of bounds in '09 during the first game (maybe it was the final preseason game)? He twisted his ankle and everyone thought, "crap, here we go again"; but, to his credit, he played the entire season. Still, injury sustained.
& that injury, more so than Myers rag doll imitation, cost us that Jets game. We were getting dominated at the line, because Matt couldn't move. No bootlegs, no moving pocket, just chuck & duck. Ryan new it & came after him.
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Old 02-03-2012   #63
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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I feel that CB and others wouldn't feel our players are so injury prone if they weren't Texans fans who obsesses over every bone bruise or sprain.

I have a feeling that every fan base feels that their players are injury prone. I mean they/we read articles when their player sneezes too hard.
This is a joke right?

Me thinking Mario is "injury prone" doesn't have anything to do with him being a Houston Texan.

He is injury prone and the fact that some people chose to flat out deny that fact is laughable. It's straight denial. He's sustained injuries every single season he's been in the league and injuries that pretty much range from head to toe (literally toes). You know what's so damn funny about this topic. Yesterday a local sports radio host was talking about the fact that Mario is...guess what? INJURY PRONE. Newsflash, if they're talking about him being injury prone on the radio, then there must be some truth to the fact that he is. But lets all stick our fingers in our ears and bury our heads in the sand.

Like I said though...everybody is entitled to their own opinion regardless of how delusional it may be. Just don't try to get me to agree with it.
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Old 02-03-2012   #64
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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This is a joke right?

Me thinking Mario is "injury prone" doesn't have anything to do with him being a Houston Texan.

He is injury prone and the fact that some people chose to flat out deny that fact is laughable. It's straight denial. He's sustained injuries every single season he's been in the league and injuries that pretty much range from head to toe (literally toes). You know what's so damn funny about this topic. Yesterday a local sports radio host was talking about the fact that Mario is...guess what? INJURY PRONE. Newsflash, if they're talking about him being injury prone on the radio, then there must be some truth to the fact that he is. But lets all stick our fingers in our ears and bury our heads in the sand.

Like I said though...everybody is entitled to their own opinion regardless of how delusional it may be. Just don't try to get me to agree with it.
lol! Using radio monkey's as a source. I guess you believe everything on Fox news radio too. You have your opinion, I have mine. Next topic.
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Old 02-03-2012   #65
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Okay... but if you use injuries sustained the picture gets worse, especially concerning Schaub.
...remember when Schaub slipped going out of bounds in '09 during the first game (maybe it was the final preseason game)? He twisted his ankle and everyone thought, "crap, here we go again"; but, to his credit, he played the entire season. Still, injury sustained.

Point is that most everyone plays hurt at some time or another. Antonio Smith played most of the year with a bad shoulder. DeMeco played hurt most of '09. A.J. has played thru injuries even before his hammy(s) took him down this year. O.D. has had various nicks (like his hand this year) and knee the year before) that have impacted his play. It's when those injuries make players miss games that those "nicks" become an issue. Like Bob Sanders - he was off the field more than he was on.

You have your definition of "injury prone", mine is when those injuries take you out of multiple games.
I really don't understand this argument. I NEVER said players don't play hurt. It's part of the NFL. However players do have seasons where they don't sustain injuries... Mario Williams is NOT one of those players. And I already said Schaub is injury prone and Andre is well on his way to also joining that list.

I also don't understand how people are going to act like he isn't injury prone just because he's been a tough S.O.B. and was able to play through injuries that sidelined other players. Guess what, if I constantly sustain injuries, but am able to roll my butt out of bed and show up to work... it doesn't erase the injury, it just means I'm working injuried, and more than likely that injury would effect what I'm able to do at work (and BTW, my job would start looking for my replacement)....which is EXACTLY what it has done to Mario Williams who hasn't been able to record double digit sacks since 2008. Let's back up the brinks truck though.
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Old 02-03-2012   #66
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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lol! Using radio monkey's as a source. I guess you believe everything on Fox news radio too. You have your opinion, I have mine. Next topic.
LMAO. And this is what I like to call a copout response.


Yeah, I'm supposed to totally ignore the "radio monkeys", but I have to listen to "message board monkeys" like their opinion has any more value.

I love the "fox news radio" reference... great reach there, especially since I don't even listen to "fox news radio".


And yes you have a opinion... a opinion that I already said multiple times that you're entitled to. I have one as well.
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Old 02-03-2012   #67
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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which is EXACTLY what it has done to Mario Williams who hasn't been about to record double digit sacks since 2008. Let's back up the brinks truck though.
Mario has been one of the most consistent performers even when most of the other players around him weren't doing much.

When the defensive scheme sucked, when the defensive coachig sucked, when QB's could take three step drops and consistently complete passes Mario has been good to really good.

This year under Wade he had elite production through the games he was healthy. And he isn't just a pass rusher like a lot of guys are. He's good against the run too.

He was benefiting from legit coaching just like everyone else was.
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Old 02-03-2012   #68
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Mario has been one of the most consistent performers even when most of the other players around him weren't doing much.

When the defensive scheme sucked, when the defensive coachig sucked, when QB's could take three step drops and consistently complete passes Mario has been good to really good.

This year under Wade he had elite production through the games he was healthy. And he isn't just a pass rusher like a lot of guys are. He's good against the run too.

He was benefiting from legit coaching just like everyone else was.
When I think of Mario Williams... consistency is not a word that pops in my head.

I don't hate the guy, I'm just sick of people around here acting like he isn't replaceable or is the sole reason why everyone else is productive (Antonio Smith)... Happens to be the same people who said we wouldn't be able to be productive without him.


Let's put it this way.. If Mario Williams was NOT on this team and was NOT a Texan and played his entire career somewhere else. If he was a FA that was on the market and considering the year and level this defense/front 7 played at without him. Would people be screaming "We HAVE to spend most of our FA dollars on Mario Williams!", Would they feel that a pass rusher was a huge need? No they wouldn't... They would be clamoring for those dollars to be spent on a corner or used to sign our other players who fill more vital needs for this team.
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Old 02-03-2012   #69
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
When I think of Mario Williams... consistency is not a word that pops in my head.

I don't hate the guy, I'm just sick of people around here acting like he isn't replaceable or is the sole reason why everyone else is productive (Antonio Smith)... Happens to be the same people who said we wouldn't be able to be productive without him.


Let's put it this way.. If Mario Williams was NOT on this team and was NOT a Texan and played his entire career somewhere else. If he was a FA that was on the market and considering the year and level this defense/front 7 played at without him. Would people be screaming "We HAVE to spend most of our FA dollars on Mario Williams!", Would they feel that a pass rusher was a huge need? No they wouldn't... They would be clamoring for those dollars to be spent on a corner or used to sign our other players who fill more vital needs for this team.
No one is irreplaceable. I don't think that's the point... well it isn't mine. I just would like to see us do all we can to keep our core players. Schaub, Andre, Mario, DeMeco, and Cushing have been core players since they were brought on board. Watt, Myers, Briesel, Foster, Joseph, and maybe Antonio have have become core players. O.D. and K.W. used to have that status but, for me, they've dropped off that list. For you and others Mario has dropped off that list.

At the end of the day, it's all about how many of our core folks can we afford and not suffer a performance decline if we have to let some of them walk. That's the $64,000 question.
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Old 02-03-2012   #70
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Its going to come down to how much they can save in the process .... We have such conflicting numbers from multiple sources much like MW's cap figure , everyone wants to make up a number and plug it in ....


What we do know is he signed a 3 year deal worth $10.5m - $1.5m in signing bonus and a total of $3.5m in guarantee's.

What it boils down to is how much guaranteed money aside from the signing bonus remains to be paid. If that number is minimal , and they can save ~$2m total by cutting him , I expect him to be gone as they could replace his production at a substantial discount with a draft pick , even one taken late in the first round ..... and they pick 26th. That player is likely to cost them in the neighborhood of ~$1.2m which is less than half Jacoby Jones salary.
totally agree
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Old 02-03-2012   #71
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Let's put it this way.. If Mario Williams was NOT on this team and was NOT a Texan and played his entire career somewhere else. If he was a FA that was on the market and considering the year and level this defense/front 7 played at without him. Would people be screaming "We HAVE to spend most of our FA dollars on Mario Williams!", Would they feel that a pass rusher was a huge need? No they wouldn't... They would be clamoring for those dollars to be spent on a corner or used to sign our other players who fill more vital needs for this team.
True.
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Old 02-04-2012   #72
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

I saw a lot of money they can get by cutting guys.
3.5m-cody
3.5m-walters
That's 7m right there which is really about 14m in real cap space. The could also get schaub to drop his salary to 1m and move the rest to easily to attain snaps bonus which wouldn't count till end of year.That would give the team another 5m to work with. Dressen had his position drafted for and daniels was resigned to a good deal. He's probably gone.
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Old 02-04-2012   #73
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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I saw a lot of money they can get by cutting guys.
3.5m-cody
3.5m-walters
That's 7m right there which is really about 14m in real cap space. The could also get schaub to drop his salary to 1m and move the rest to easily to attain snaps bonus which wouldn't count till end of year.That would give the team another 5m to work with. Dressen had his position drafted for and daniels was resigned to a good deal. He's probably gone.
It doesn't work that way!

If we cut Walter, it would be about a $6 million cap hit, because of the final three years of his prorated salary bonus all hitting the Texans' cap at once. I'm not sure what Cody's signing bonus is, but again, it would still count against the Texans even if Cody was cut.

The Texans also can't simply have Schaub's salary dropped to $1 million under the same contract. Salaries can only fluctuate a maximum of about 30% from one year to the next. Furthermore, if you did turn all that money into a bonus, it would all count against the Texans 2013 cap, which would kill the Texans efforts to re-sign: Duane Brown, Matt Schaub, Connor Barwin, and others.

No wonder you are so adamant about keeping Mario, you're operating in a fantasy world with no idea how the salary cap works.

And, why would $7 million of cap space really be $14 million?

With what you suggested to do with Walter and Cody, according to my math, we would lose about $2 million in cap space and have two more players to replace- which also costs money.

One final note: it is Kevin Walter, not Walters
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Old 02-04-2012   #74
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OU still sucks and Mario did not play against the Ravens.
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Old 02-04-2012   #75
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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OU still sucks and Mario did not play against the Ravens.
OU? I don't get this.

I've posted on this board for 7 years. Has anyone ever seen me post anything supportive about the Texas Longhorns? I hate the Longhorns. The arrogance of some people to assume that if another person disagrees with them, there must be a hidden agenda. I

I loved the Mario pick when it happened. I believed in him throughout 2006 when some on this board bashed him. I was a huge fan of his in 2007 and 2008 and 2009. In 2009, I began to notice some inconsistent effort. However, I attributed that to his injuries (shoulder). Then, in 2010, he had a great first week against Indy. He continued to play well for most of the first 6 games (until the bye). After the bye, when the team needed him most, he disappeared. There was a consistent lack of effort and I found it very difficult to watch. Then, eventually, he went on the I.R. Those 6 or 7 awful games embittered me towards him quite a bit.

Still, it turned out he was playing with an injury, so I was cautiously optimistic he could get healthy and the effort on the field would look much better. This season, I saw him hot and cold. Some very good moments surrounded by periods of seeming disinterest, highlighted by that nightmare performance vs. New Orleans.

Simply put, that's not a guy I want the Texans to give more money to than they have given to any player in their history... Considering the 14 games he missed this season was easily the best stretch of defensive football this team has ever had, it appears the obvious thing to do is to let him walk. If we can be a great defense without him, then let's not destroy the cap for a guy who hasn't had a healthy/consistent season since 2008.
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Old 02-04-2012   #76
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OU sucking and pointing out the proper spelling of our WR2 in a conversation on re-structuring deals are both absurd.

However, calling out a player's performance in a game he did not participate, is genius.
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Old 02-04-2012   #77
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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...then let's not destroy the cap for a guy who hasn't had a healthy/consistent season since 2008.
I agree that we should not "destroy" the cap for any one player. However, I don't think signing Mario to a fair market deal will destroy the cap.
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Old 02-04-2012   #78
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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I saw a lot of money they can get by cutting guys.
3.5m-cody
3.5m-walters
That's 7m right there which is really about 14m in real cap space. The could also get schaub to drop his salary to 1m and move the rest to easily to attain snaps bonus which wouldn't count till end of year.That would give the team another 5m to work with. Dressen had his position drafted for and daniels was resigned to a good deal. He's probably gone.
Cody? WHo is your Nose?
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Old 02-04-2012   #79
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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I saw a lot of money they can get by cutting guys.
3.5m-cody
3.5m-walters
That's 7m right there which is really about 14m in real cap space. The could also get schaub to drop his salary to 1m and move the rest to easily to attain snaps bonus which wouldn't count till end of year.That would give the team another 5m to work with. Dressen had his position drafted for and daniels was resigned to a good deal. He's probably gone.
Cody has been the most consistent player on the DL over the past two years ..... Cutting him is absolutely crazy.
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Old 02-05-2012   #80
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
OU sucking and pointing out the proper spelling of our WR2 in a conversation on re-structuring deals are both absurd.

However, calling out a player's performance in a game he did not participate, is genius.
I never called out his performance in the Baltimore game. I said I re-watched a group of games (one of them being the Baltimore game) and was disturbed by Mario's lack of effort in those early season games, specifically referencing the New Orleans game. I never referenced anything Mario did or did not do in the Baltimore game.

When typing about those games, I mentioned that the Texans continued to pressure Flacco throughout the game, "even after Mario's exit", which was a mistake. I confused Mario's early exit in the Oakland game with the Baltimore game. The Texans certainly did apply constant pressure on Flacco that day without Mario, which was my point. There's nothing insidious about it. I simply filed away the Oakland and Baltimore games in my head as the two transition games (and losses) for the team as they learned to play and win without AJ and Mario.


I try to never attempt silly "gotcha" games that tend to happen on these message boards. However, this one gentleman (Leebigeztx), has attacked my integrity, with regularity, over this Mario issue. Turns out he has absolutely no clue how the salary cap works, though he has been vigilant in arguing about it. By the way, adding an 'S' at the end of a receiver's name who has been here for over five years, isn't simply a misspelling, it indicates he doesn't know his name. Does he think the 'S' is silent?
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