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Old 02-01-2012   #21
Carr Bombed
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
If your on the side of letting Mario walk instead of signing him long term, you're going to put the injury-prone label on him to validate your case. Way too convenient.

Schaub was "injury-prone" a couple of years ago, until he proved to most that he was a good QB. But now that he's out with a Lisfranc injury, where's the injury-prone label now?

Instead of putting the injury-prone label on Mario, cut the bull**** and just say he's not that good of a player.
Saying that Mario is "injury prone" is not bull****... It's called the truth and frankly I don't see how anybody can say he's not "injury prone".

BTW.. Schaub is "injury prone" also.
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Old 02-01-2012   #22
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Going to have to define "considerable injury history" unless 1 early season injury makes any player injury prone (sorry Daryl Sharpton, Owen Daniels, Roc Carmichael, and others).
How about being injured just about every single season that you've been in the league. Does that suffice?


Mario has a knack for picking up nagging injuries, this is just the first time he caught a injury that knocked him out for a large amount of time.

He's been injured all the way from his toes up to his shoulders. So even if we ignore the fact that we don't need him and don't need to blow a boat load of cash on him, we don't need to ignore the fact that he gets knicked up every year.

Last edited by Carr Bombed; 02-01-2012 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 02-01-2012   #23
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Saying that Mario is "injury prone" is not bull****... It's called the truth and frankly I don't see how anybody can say he's not "injury prone".

BTW.. Schaub is "injury prone" also.
Then everyone else on the team who got injured is "injury prone".
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Old 02-01-2012   #24
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Then everyone else on the team who got injured is "injury prone".
No they're not. Just because you get a injury, that doesn't make you "injury prone". Frankly that's silly.

The definition of being "injury prone" is a player that constantly picks up various injuries year in and year out. Now what has happened to Mario? When is the last time Mario has made it through a season or had a season where he wasn't battling a injury? Just because he has been a tough SOB and has played through a lot of injuries doesn't mean he's not "injury prone". Hell one year he couldn't even practice and was on bed rest through the week. This season he finally picked up a injury that he couldn't play through and that's the difference...still another injury though.

Mario Williams IS injury prone.

And if AJ doesn't get over the leg injuries next season, I'll put him in the same class if he's not there already. The only benefit of the doubt I can make for him is everybody had hammy issues, so hopefully it's a training issue and not something he's naturally susceptible to.
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Old 02-01-2012   #25
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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How about being injured just about every single season that you've been in the league. Does that suffice?


Mario has a knack for picking up nagging injuries, this is just the first time he caught a injury that knocked him out for a large amount of time.

He's been injured all the way from his toes up to his shoulders. So even if we ignore the fact that we don't need him and don't need to blow a boat load of cash on him, he don't need to ignore the fact that he gets knicked up every year.
You're exaggerating to make your point, and it's a pretty crappy point to boot. If you wanted to bring up whether he produces enough to warrant a gazillion dollar contract, that is a good and debatable point that can be intelligently argued. Instead you trot out this tired, half thought out idea that he's injury prone when he basically started every game from 2005 until 2010. He's played through various injuries (Which, if I'm not mistaken almost every other player in the NFL has done this) and it has been used to reason why he had low production in 2006 and 2010. Being injury prone means you're absent from a lot of games, and that my friend, is not something that Mario Williams does. Sorry but you can do better than that CB.
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Old 02-01-2012   #26
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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You're exaggerating to make your point, and it's a pretty crappy point to boot. If you wanted to bring up whether he produces enough to warrant a gazillion dollar contract, that is a good and debatable point that can be intelligently argued. Instead you trot out this tired, half thought out idea that he's injury prone when he basically started every game from 2005 until 2010. He's played through various injuries (Which, if I'm not mistaken almost every other player in the NFL has done this) and it has been used to reason why he had low production in 2006 and 2010. Being injury prone means you're absent from a lot of games, and that my friend, is not something that Mario Williams does. Sorry but you can do better than that CB.
Umm no. A crappy point would be trying to live in denial and argue that Mario Williams is not injury prone, when he is. That is a sad, tired, and half thought out attempt to prove another point...your point

Being "injury prone" doesn't mean you have to miss games. Players play injured..yes that's true, but players don't have to play with the type of injuries that he's had every single year. The dude IS injury prone and that's not some "crappy point" it's my opinion and the opinion of many others. Just because you may have a different opinion or a different definition of what "injury prone" is to you..doesnt mean your argument is any smarter. You've been a homer for this guy since day one (as far as his worth to this team), while I've been objective.

First you said our defense couldn't produce at the same level without him...I said it could and was right. Now you're on this trip down DeNile where you want to act like the guy doesn't have a knack for picking up injuries that he has to battle through all season long and usually every single season... and not only that, you want to insult other people while doing it. Frankly it's ridiculous. If you want to act like the guy isn't prone to picking up injuries..then by all means go ahead, but don't try to insult me just because I don't want to take that boat trip down the river with you.
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Old 02-01-2012   #27
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Umm no. A crappy point would be trying to live in denial and argue that Mario Williams is not injury prone, when he is. That is a sad, tired, and half thought out attempt to prove another point...your point

Being "injury prone" doesn't mean you have to miss games. Players play injured..yes that's true, but players don't have to play with the type of injuries that he's had every single year. The dude IS injury prone and that's not some "crappy point" it's my opinion and the opinion of many otherus. Just because you may have a different opinion or a different definition of what "injury prone" is to you..doesnt mean your argument is any smarter. You've been a homer for this guy since day one, while I've been objective.

First you said our defense couldn't produce at the same level without him...I said it could and was right. Now you're on this trip down DeNile where you want to act like the guy doesn't have a knack for picking up injuries that he has to battle through all season long and usually every single season... and not only that, you want to insult other people while doing it. Frankly it's ridiculous.
Numbers back me up here though, 50+ games started before his herniation in 2010. He gets nicked up throughout the.season, just like most NFL players, but there are many who want to.blow these up into gigantic reasons we should just let him go without an offer (or at least that's how they make it sound).

Just tell the truth for once CB. You ,don't want Mario here because he doesn't produce enough to warrant a pay raise. Don't hide behind an easy to use yet fairly wrong label.
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Old 02-01-2012   #28
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Numbers back me up here though, 50+ games started before his herniation in 2010. He gets nicked up throughout the.season, just like most NFL players, but there are many who want to.blow these up into gigantic reasons we should just let him go without an offer (or at least that's how they make it sound).

Just tell the truth for once CB. You ,don't want Mario here because he doesn't produce enough to warrant a pay raise. Don't hide behind an easy to use yet fairly wrong label.
LMAO.. Now you're going to try to tell me want I'm thinking. Oh lord and it just keeps getting deeper and deeper.
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Old 02-01-2012   #29
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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The amount of gauranteed money will likely be the difference between resigning MW and him walking. Would you risk $50+ mil gauranteed on a player with a considerable history of injury?
If you look at the contracts for elite pass rushers the guaranteed portions range from $30-$40 million. I don't know where you got $50+ million guaranteed from. That's unheard of. Sam Bradford has the most guaranteed money in NFL history at $50 million, so it might be reach to assume he's getting that type of guaranteed in free agency (especially when you consider what elite pass rushers make).
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Old 02-02-2012   #30
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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What are the possibilities for the Texans to free up salary cap space with some restructuring current long term players under contract in order to sign our most important free agents:
Mario Williams
Arain Foster
Chris Myers
Mike brisiel
Joel Dreesen

I know we have several under long term contracts:
Andre Johnson thru 2017
Demeco Ryans thru 2016
Antonio Smith thru 2014
Kevin Walter thru 2015
Owen Daniels thru 2014
Kareem Jackson thru 2015
Jacoby Jones thru 2013
Johnathan Joseph thru 2016
Eric Winston thru 2013

I'm just not a capologist and have no idea how we can make it happen.
Ive said before that I expect Jacoby Jones and Matt Lienart to be cut as well as Demeco Ryans having his contract restructured.

Jacoby costs them $3m if he's on the roster and has no guaranteed money remaining on his deal. To cut him saves $3m with no consequences against the cap. They can get a rookie to replace his production at considerably less salary even if its their first round pick there is savings here.

Ryans will cost about $8.5m in salary , pro-rated signing bonus and incentives. Thats just too much. I believe he's one of if not the prime target to restructure.

Leinart has a deal for ~$5.5 over two seasons with $3.75m in guarantees , not sure what portion of that guaranteed money he got last season but its probably safe to assume that it was the majority of the guaranteed money in the first year.


Looking at Mario Williams numbers from last year - He cost them $17.6m in cap space. (Dont care what you've read elsewhere , this is the factual number) The original deal gave the team a lot of manuverability early in his contract but the final year became a balloon payment for the most part.

Even if the Texans resign MW he will not cost them near that $17.6m total in the 2012 season. Its more likely they get him in the $9-11m range which leaves them ample room to deal with Foster , Myers , Dreesen and Briesel .... Unless some team throws stupid money at him , he'll be a Texan in 2012.

Ask yourself what team wants to sign a guy to a longterm deal for above that amount who has had season ending injuries in back to back years ?


Its not doomsday as many like to make you believe .... With a few shrewd moves , the Texans can deal with each of their FA's as well as have cap space remaining for other upgrades be they thru the draft or FA.

People also have to consider that in 2013 & 2014 the cap is expected to increase considerably , possibly as high as $180m in 2013 and an estimated $200m+ in 2014 as the new TV deals kick in. Teams can backload contracts twards those seasons , not only for their current FA's but those players they may seek to restructure.

The Texans spent $118m last season. In contrast - Dallas spent $136.6 million and Carolina $73m.
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Old 02-02-2012   #31
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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If you look at the contracts for elite pass rushers the guaranteed portions range from $30-$40 million. I don't know where you got $50+ million guaranteed from. That's unheard of. Sam Bradford has the most guaranteed money in NFL history at $50 million, so it might be reach to assume he's getting that type of guaranteed in free agency (especially when you consider what elite pass rushers make).
Just going off of Pepper's contract with the Bears and throwing an extra $8 mil in gauranteed money. It's a completely hypothetical situation. We need to get MW to sign as long term a contract as possible to keep his cap hit low for the next couple of years.
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Old 02-02-2012   #32
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Old 02-02-2012   #33
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

Here's an easy way to have the money to resign the free agents:

Let Mario Williams walk.







Ta-Da!!!!!!
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Old 02-02-2012   #34
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Here's an easy way to have the money to resign the free agents:

Let Mario Williams walk.







Ta-Da!!!!!!
We should let any player who is in line for a payday walk. We'll call ourselves the Buccaneers, it will be glorious.
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Old 02-02-2012   #35
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Numbers back me up here though, 50+ games started before his herniation in 2010. He gets nicked up throughout the.season, just like most NFL players, but there are many who want to.blow these up into gigantic reasons we should just let him go without an offer (or at least that's how they make it sound).

Just tell the truth for once CB. You ,don't want Mario here because he doesn't produce enough to warrant a pay raise. Don't hide behind an easy to use yet fairly wrong label.
Did you notice that WE are homers, while HE is "objective"?
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Old 02-02-2012   #36
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

For those that say Mario is injury prone, can you back that up with factual information? I would like to see where Mario was injured and unable to perform besides 3 games last year, and this season.

I dont care if you use his Texans history, NCSTATE history, high school football history, just show me how he is injury prone rather than just saying he is injury prone.
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Old 02-02-2012   #37
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...t-let-mario-go

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“I said that and I see you got your [tape recorder] out,” he said. “Well I am the best, there ain’t no damn question about that. I don’t know who No. 2 is. I’ll say he is potentially. He potentially can be the best in his era. He has the ability, he has the size, and all he needs is to get his head straight and make that commitment.

“They’d be stupid to let him go. He’s the No. 1 pick. Sure he’s had some injures. Everybody gets injuries. You can’t let a guy like that go. He’s a hell of a football player. If they do let him go, come to the Rams. Tell him don’t do nothing until he comes to the Rams.”
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Old 02-02-2012   #38
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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Exactly. It's kinda comparable to what's going on with the countrys finances right now which is we can only defer our obligations so long until they come due.
Not really.

You can cut a player and save money towards your cap sometimes.
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Old 02-02-2012   #39
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

Corrosion,
I like your thoughts and your numbers.
Great news about back loading contracts whent he salary cap rises substantially in 2013 and beyond.
It jstt seems like we are out on a limb with all of this, but my guess is, a vast portion of the NFL is in the same situation.

And even though this thread sorta went off the tracks with the injury prone tangent, I do think we need to keep Mario.
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Old 02-02-2012   #40
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Default Re: Re-structuring Contracts to free up $$$

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For those that say Mario is injury prone, can you back that up with factual information? I would like to see where Mario was injured and unable to perform besides 3 games last year, and this season.

I dont care if you use his Texans history, NCSTATE history, high school football history, just show me how he is injury prone rather than just saying he is injury prone.
He's had injuries that have affected his play in almost every season. He had plantar fasciitis his rookie year, groin pulls, sports hernias that required offseason surgery, torn pec this season. He played through most of the injuries and while that's commendable and shows toughness, etc. it does affect his ability to perform on the field at a high level. These are well known injuries, not something conjured up to bash him.
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