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Old 02-07-2012   #101
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Your scenario is actually very interesting and in my perspective, even plausible.

The AFC west is possible simply because the division is so freakin' weak. But who? The Chargers are set, so maybe the Broncos? Great defense, but with the publics mancrush on Tebow, I do not see the Denver front office rocking that boat with high priced QB.
I think this is more plausible than you're thinking.

If there's anyone that the Tebow fanboys would shut up for it would be the addition of a future HoF'er like Manning. They would realize that Manning would only be there a couple of years and make them competitive and relevant during that time. And Manning has the chops and resume' to take any heat the hardcore Tebow-ites could dish out.

The fanbase would have to know that there's no better teacher for their boy Tebow to learn from for those two years than Manning??


And Elway would HAVE to be elated with someone under center that actually knows how to be a traditional - and effective - QB.

The only snag I see is whether Manning is willing to play outside in the cold. ...especially after being indoors the last few years.

Yeah, IMO Denver would definitely be in the Capt. Forehead sweepstakes.

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I said earlier in this thread that this blog was tripe, but maybe I was just jumping to conclusions due to rooting against Manning for so long, not really liking Solomon, and never getting my hopes up based upon pipe dreams.
I have to confess this is where my head is still at. I've heard the "if you can't beat 'em, Join 'em" viewpoint. I'm a believer that if you can't beat 'em, you ain't hittin' hard enough. Get a bigger stick.

Bear with me. It'll take a while before this even becomes something the Peyton-hate centers of my brain will let me consider rationally.

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Old 02-07-2012   #102
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Yep, IF IF IF he is dead-dog serious about wanting to play for the chance to prove people wrong, to win a ring again, and be a gamer....the Houston Texans represent a very attractive landing spot for him.

I mean, why is Miami the sexy pick right now? He would still have to play in cold weather vs. Bills, Jets, and Patriots. Other than Brandon Marshall, the Dolphins have zilch for him to work with...except that decoy guy at RB. I suppose Florida having no state income tax is a plus. But so is Texas!

This team has as much upside and momentum as any team he could land with. It had everything, IMO, to win the Super Bowl except the injury to Schaub derailed it. And the injury to AJ. Our defense KILLED IT all year long, even without Mario Williams. This team is as complete as any team #18 has ever QB'd before.

I think you let Mario walk, sign #18 to a friendly contract, and make a run at Reggie Wayne. Take BPA in the draft and have multiple orgasms with every pick we make in the draft....because you'd know that we upgraded WR, without giving up draft picks for some guy like Blackmon, and you got at least 1 year to see if #18 can give you 3 to 4 years of QB play with the weapons of Foster, Tate, AJ, Wayne, Daniels, Dreessen, Walter, Casey, Lestar Jean. DAMN!!! And that's not even looking at who we'd draft in 2012 either.

Tell me #18 wouldn't like to snag Reggie Wayne, play for the Texans, and shove it to Irsay for the next four years while they try to get Andrew Luck up and running. Thanks for the memories, Jim Irsay!
I like the sound of that. Go Forehead!
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Old 02-07-2012   #103
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Your scenario is actually very interesting and in my perspective, even plausible.

With regards to potential teams, I think NFC teams are unlikely as Archie wants to see a Manning vs. Manning Super Bowl. So let's just theoretically take the NFC out of the picture.

I'm not sure facing Brady/Patriots twice a season in the same division on a weaker team is going to interest him. Certainly not the Jets with the New York media, and Miami is transitioning right now so lots of instability.

The AFC west is possible simply because the division is so freakin' weak. But who? The Chargers are set, so maybe the Broncos? Great defense, but with the publics mancrush on Tebow, I do not see the Denver front office rocking that boat with high priced QB.

AFC North? I don't think Manning would dig the weather, and what team? The Browns are the only team without a franchise QB, and I have no doubt he's not interesting in Cleveland.

So that leaves the AFC south, where Peyton is right at home. The Texans are about as plug & play for an elite QB as anyone in the league. Manning to Johnson??! That's highlight potential right there. Then add in Daniels, Dreesen, and a solid #2 WR, along with the Foster/Tate combo? Plus, our defense is built to protect a lead, where they can pin their ears in a pass rush and really take advantage of early leads like Peyton often builds.

I said earlier in this thread that this blog was tripe, but maybe I was just jumping to conclusions due to rooting against Manning for so long, not really liking Solomon, and never getting my hopes up based upon pipe dreams.

But, if the opportunity knocks, would I be upset to see Manning on our sideline? Not if it means what I think it could mean in the big picture.
This is where I wish Kubiak had a little bit more "cut throat" in him.

(A) Peyton Manning beat the Texans' brains out for over 9 years, it was an annual twice-a-year ass kicking except for the Christmas Miracle game in Reliant, and the past two years' of splitting with them (IIRC).

(B) Why wouldn't you, as Texans coach, say "You know, I think that the guy who kicked our teeth in on an annual basis for almost a decade...THAT guy might be good to have on OUR team for a change."

(C) I think Irsay is doing the right thing if he lets Manning walk and drafts Luck. It's what he has to do for his own franchise. I "get it," and it's the only way to go for the long haul. But.........

(D) That doesn't mean we have to also think Manning is unserviceable as a quality NFL QB. In contrast, we can scoop up the last year or two (or maybe three or four if Manning is fortunate going forward each year) and use Irsay's plight as our own special form of "insurance claims" payoff. Peyton Manning destroyed our home for 9 years, it's time we collected some insurance money off it.

His knowledge of AFC South teams is solid. He can wear a blindfold and know what to do against each of us, depending on every type of possible situation he might encounter on a Sunday vs. an AFCS team.

To me, the problem has been (A) A declining o-line, who is quite possibly tired of the act #18 had become--The vicious task master who criticizes their mistakes to no end, even when up by 28 in the 4th and 1 minute left on the clock. Also, (B) No sign of a running game, consistently, that can utilize his play fake passing skills. Defense do not have to honor the Colts run game. Period. and (C) Shaky defense by the Colts.

If I were Bob McNair, I'd tell Peyton that the three things that cost the Colts is exactly the three things that we do VERY well. We have a great o-line, a great ground game, and an awesome defense.

But I fear that loyalty wins out at the end of the day. I don't think Schaub can return and be an NFL-caliber QB like he has been. I think this team will afford him the snaps in the final half of the season, to see what he can do, and then make a decision in 2013 about whether to sign him or let him walk and try their luck with Yates.

The problem with that mentality, in my opinion, is that that's a wasted 2012 season when you could have the Ring Master orchestrating the passing attack while the ground game does its own thang that it does so well. We would become the most deadly offense in the NFL. Period. I'm talking 14 or 15-win "deadly."
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Old 02-07-2012   #104
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

I mean, this is not even like the Favre saga either.

Manning is a robot. A football machine. He eats film, he drinks his own urine rather than leave the film room for the water fountain in the hall. He is a pro in every sense of the word.

#18, from top to bottom, is a Texans-type guy that an owner like McNair would relish to have a shot at. I actually think it's the biggest gift in the history of the NFL if we could get the final 1-to-4 years of Manning's football life for no draft pick compensation and an incentive-based contract.

In what other universe would this even be a legitimate and possible opportunity for us? LOL.

You basically "lock down" your QB spot, knowing you have Yates sitting and learning as it goes along, and you ride the forehead as far as he can gallup with the football. Guys, we were ONE "clutch/veteran" QB away from going to the Super Bowl.

Hell, I wonder if Peyton was watching that Texans-Ravens playoff game and thinking, "I could be playing in the Super Bowl with the Texans, against my brother....and I would have beaten him too!"

I read the following in either ESPN Magazine or Sports Illustrated: Peyton Manning used to beat Eli so badly in basketball over their family Thanksgiving they'd have with their parents every year...that the one year that Eli had finally grown enough to BEAT Peyton in the annual one-on-one contest they had, that it ended up with Peyton not speaking to Eli for something like two weeks. THAT is how bad #18 wants to win, guys.

He will turn his shoulder on his brother over losing a miserable, trivial one-on-one basketball game!

I will be a Peyton Manning fan in 2012 as long as he is not in the AFCS. The guy is out of this world.
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Old 02-07-2012   #105
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

Some points have been made that I did not consider in the beginning, but I still believe Manning's not going Houston. If he's demanding little to no guaranteed money, that's enough for Irsay to keep him and develop Luck.

And if that doesn't happen, Manning's on the open market. Houston doesn't have the cap room to make that bid. I think Elway will pursue him the most aggressively.
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Old 02-07-2012   #106
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
Some points have been made that I did not consider in the beginning, but I still believe Manning's not going Houston. If he's demanding little to no guaranteed money, that's enough for Irsay to keep him and develop Luck.

And if that doesn't happen, Manning's on the open market. Houston doesn't have the cap room to make that bid. I think Elway will pursue him the most aggressively.
Someone correct me I'm wrong, but if he agrees to an incentive laden contract with another team then it would count towards the 2013 league year contract correct? I'm just assuming that's pretty much the only way it could work.
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Old 02-07-2012   #107
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Someone correct me I'm wrong, but if he agrees to an incentive laden contract with another team then it would count towards the 2013 league year contract correct? I'm just assuming that's pretty much the only way it could work.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but any salary, prorated signing bonus or roster bonus that is to be paid in 2012, must be regarded as part of the 2012 cap. Incentives that are earned during the regular or post season can exceed the cap, but any money that exceeds the 2012 cap will count against the 2013 cap. So if a team out there with 15 mill in free cap space signs him to a 15 mill MAX incentive contract, they can't possibly exceed the 2012 cap due to Manning.
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Old 02-07-2012   #108
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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I'm not sure what you're getting at, but any salary, prorated signing bonus or roster bonus that is to be paid in 2012, must be regarded as part of the 2012 cap. Incentives that are earned during the regular or post season can exceed the cap, but any money that exceeds the 2012 cap will count against the 2013 cap. So if a team out there with 15 mill in free cap space signs him to a 15 mill MAX incentive contract, they can't possibly exceed the 2012 cap due to Manning.
You answered my question, but the reason I ask is because this is what Manning said he would agree to. If for some reason we did decide to sign Manning to a contract like that then re-signing Duane Brown this year is a must to me. It may be a must anyway. We would be smart to start locking up some of our players early. I'm personally intrigued by the potential of the Texans inquiring about Peyton. Its not likely to happen but its fun to think about.
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Old 02-07-2012   #109
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
Some points have been made that I did not consider in the beginning, but I still believe Manning's not going Houston. If he's demanding little to no guaranteed money, that's enough for Irsay to keep him and develop Luck.

And if that doesn't happen, Manning's on the open market. Houston doesn't have the cap room to make that bid. I think Elway will pursue him the most aggressively.
At thos point it is a fore gone conclusion that Manning will not be in Indy next year.
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Old 02-07-2012   #110
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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You answered my question, but the reason I ask is because this is what Manning said he would agree to. If for some reason we did decide to sign Manning to a contract like that then re-signing Duane Brown this year is a must to me. It may be a must anyway. We would be smart to start locking up some of our players early. I'm personally intrigued by the potential of the Texans inquiring about Peyton. Its not likely to happen but its fun to think about.
Ok, well in that case the Texans could go into cap hell for 2013, with signing Peyton and re-signing all/most of their free agents (assuming he meets his incentive criteria). It just hurts the team down the road because it makes it difficult, if not impossible, to re-sign guys like Barwin, Brown and Cushing. Personally, I would rather have even two of those three over Peyton. Peyton's just too much of a risk IMO, and I think given the Texan's track record with Smithiak, they will not pursue Peyton.
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Old 02-07-2012   #111
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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I thought about the Chiefs, but they still seem 2-3 years away to build a contender.

I think if Manning were to look for another team he will be looking for a team that has the potential to make a run in 2012. He's too old to rebuild, which is why I think he's out in Indy. If he's able to play, how many more years with that neck? 2? Maybe 3? He's got a find a team that is plug & play ready for him. The Texans are on the short list in that regard.

I do not think it will happen, though, but it is fun to speculate.

I think the Chiefs are better than they appear. This past season was a disaster because of injuries and coaching. Losing guys like JC, Moeaki and Eric Berry decimated that team early on. They even lost Cassel about 2/3rds of the way through the season. I think they will be better next year, and pending major injuries they should be contending for the AFC West title. Adding Peyton, Wayne and Clark to that offense makes them easily the favorite in the division and in play for a first round bye. Not a bad deal for them IMO. However, I think the 49ers are more attractive to Peyton. Their defense is proven, and much better than the Chiefs, but if those players go to the Chiefs, then they can focus on the defense in the draft.

Quote:
And how weird would it be to root for Peyton Manning after so many years?
I don't have a problem with it. Although I wasn't a fan of the Texans before 2008, so I don't have too much pent up anger against the Colts.
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Old 02-07-2012   #112
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Ok, well in that case the Texans could go into cap hell for 2013, with signing Peyton and re-signing all/most of their free agents (assuming he meets his incentive criteria). It just hurts the team down the road because it makes it difficult, if not impossible, to re-sign guys like Barwin, Brown and Cushing. Personally, I would rather have even two of those three over Peyton. Peyton's just too much of a risk IMO, and I think given the Texan's track record with Smithiak, they will not pursue Peyton.
I'm far from a cap genius, but that's why I mentioned getting these guys signed this year and not waiting until their contract runs out. If we let Mario walk then that frees up some money we can use to get these guys under contract and use that money against the cap while we're in this position.

You're right in that there is a huge risk in signing Manning and also right in that there is no history to suggest we would take that kind of chance. The reason I said re-signing our players this year if we sign Manning to a contract of that sort is a must is because it can potentially free up money next year while also getting some key core players locked in. I'm all for getting these guys locked up anyway. I think we could have gotten Arian for a lot cheaper if we re-signed him after last year. I'm sure a bunch of us will agree that Peyton signing anywhere isn't a no-brainer but the reward can possible far outweigh the risk if the stars align correctly.
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Old 02-08-2012   #113
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

While the surgury had healed, the nerves still have not regenerated.
Having a QB that can only throw the ball 20 yards is kind of useless - even if his name is Manning.
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Old 02-08-2012   #114
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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While the surgury had healed, the nerves still have not regenerated.
Having a QB that can only throw the ball 20 yards is kind of useless - even if his name is Manning.


Im certain Manning can throw it 20 yards and has had that ability for some time now. That said if he cant no team will sign him so your point is moot
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Old 02-08-2012   #115
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

Report: Peyton Manning cleared to resume career
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 2, 2012, 5:30 PM EST

Getty ImagesWe have some Peyton Manning news that is actually news.

ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reports that Peyton Manning has been cleared to resume his NFL career.

Colts owner Jim Irsay said in December that he expected Manning would be a Colt if healthy. The presumption of late is that Manning would not be healthy by March. Numerous sources doubted Manning’s ability to ever play again.

The Colts and NFL teams could believe that “cleared” doesn’t mean healthy, but it’s obvious that Manning’s camp wants the news out there that he’s ready to play again. This is the next volley in the back-and-forth between Manning and the Colts.

Mortensen says two doctors cleared Manning to play, including the doctor that performed his surgery.

“If you were my own son, I’d tell [you] to go play,” one doctor told Manning.

"That doesn’t mean Manning is ready to play just yet. The key line in Mortesen’s report is as follows:

“The sources said Watkins examined Manning recently in Los Angeles and concluded the stability in his neck would have allowed the quarterback to play this Sunday if the nerves in his arm had regenerated to a satisfactory performance level,” Mort writes.

So the nerves in Manning’s arm likely haven’t necessarily regenerated to a satisfactory performance level yet. Essentially, it’s sounds like it’s safe for Manning to play again, but he’s not able to be effective yet.

“It’s not a safety issue; it’s a performance issue,” one source said.

So Manning is not “back.” This may not even qualify is particularly new information. He doesn’t know yet when or if his arm will perform at an acceptable level. One source told Mort it could take until May. Left unsaid is that it might not happen at all."
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Old 02-08-2012   #116
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

I can not believe this thread is still alive. I guess because it's the off season. Not like we have anything important to talk about just yet.

And this certainly isn't important because it isn't going to happen.
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Old 02-08-2012   #117
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

If we only talked about stuff that is going to happen here this would be a boring, lonely place to come.
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Old 02-08-2012   #118
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

There are so many unknowns in this situation right now. We have no idea if Manning or Schaub will ever return to anything close to their former selves at this point. I would absolutely love to get Peyton on this team if he does in fact return to full health, and I would be willing to let Mario walk to make it happen. If we could get Peyton and Reggie Wayne on short-term, incentive-based contracts, and draft a Mario replacement to back up Barwin/Reed in the first round then we would have a seriously legitimate chance to win a super bowl.

This is something that our FO should be seriously considering. It may be nearly impossible to make it happen, but I really hope they take a hard look at it.
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Old 02-08-2012   #119
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I'll make the case against Manning.

1) The Texans aren't offering Peyton a contract.
2) See #1.

Btw, the Texans sell out Reliant for every game. Including preseason.
3) See Lucky's post, paying particularly close attention to #1).
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Old 02-08-2012   #120
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Originally Posted by TexCanada View Post
We have no idea if Manning or Schaub will ever return to anything close to their former selves at this point.
did I miss the boat or is there something wrong with Schaub that I don't know about?
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