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Old 02-07-2012   #81
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Schefter reports that “Manning is completely open to creating a contract in which he would be paid little or no guaranteed money up front and he would have to earn every cent he makes strictly through performance, according to sources.”

Such a structure will put a new team at ease, as it dissipates the risk of paying big dollars up front and then finding that Manning is unable to play because insufficient nerve regeneration leaves him unable to throw the way he needs to.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, for what it's worth.

THE SITUATION:
Schaub is in his last year of contract in 2012. Look, I don't care if his rehab is going as planned. I don't care, as well, that he is motivated and he says he will be back and ready to go. That just means there's not a significant setback needing more surgery, etc. It doesn't mean he enters 2012 fully capable of being a starting NFL Qb in week 1 of the reg season.

Marcus says your leg atrophies over that period of time when you can't put weight on the affected limb. And it's his PLANT leg, by the way. The one he pushes off on. Unless he is Super Man, he isn't playing until midway through the season. Period. We were told, by CND, IIRC, that this is easily a 12-month scenario from the time Fat Albert injured it to the time he can ADEQUATELY be a competent, fully functioning NFL QB on the field in a real game. That means midway through the season, at best.

THE CURRENT PROJECTION:
Yates will be the starter during week 1 of reg season. He will be the guy in camp, pre-season, and in week 1 of reg season. IF the projections are true.

THE OPPORTUNITY:
IF Peyton Manning is genuine about his desire to build his contract with his new team, as reports have stated, I don't know how Gary Kubiak doesn't reach out to him. Go watch him throw a ball to some college wide receivers from a small Division 2 team in some indoor practice facility on a Tuesday night at 10:00 pm. See if he can put some zip on those passes. Can he drive that pass deep and accurately, consistently.

And then you say to #18, "Look, ya' know...we want to try and bring you in for 1 year and build the incentives that we think are fair to you and allow you to take 2012 with us and see what happens. You hit your incentives, then we'll trigger in the bonus money and build in a 2nd year, as part of the contract, so that we can roll this thing into year 2 and see where it goes."

THE REASON:
I don't care about the jokes about how he is not mobile. Matt Schaub is not mobile. So that argument is nullified. Period. IF his arm is reliable, and if he can go through an intense practice session where he makes all the throws and does so for a long period of time, then that's all you need to know. Because the guy will not be on his ass as a Texans QB. Our run game, our pass blocking, and our defense, and the resilience of this whole team is EXACTLY what you pair up with a gamer like #18. At least for this year, maybe in 2013 too.

Schaub will not be back until midway through 2012, so why not take the 1-year flier on #18, let Yates watch like most young QBs in his position would be doing anyways? If Schaub doesn't like it, then he needs to change careers. It's business. He has a SERIOUS mobility issue now, and he wasn't mobile to begin with. Guys try to come back form this injury, but they never fully make it all the way back. I believe Glenn Earl (former Texans secondary player) suffered this injury and he tried to come back. Done. Ty Law of the Patriots had the same injury and tried to come back a year later, as well. Nope, he was done.

--------------

CONCLUSION:
Peyton Manning will be able to choose his team and he's going to have about 20 or 25 teams reaching out to him. The Texans should be one of them. Solomon is not crazy on this one. If you can get #18 at a low financial risk, and you're as close to the Super Bowl as we are, you are crazy to not watch the guy throw the ball and shake his hand and ask him if he's interested in us.

This is, of course, IF he is serious about heavily-laden incentives that limit risk to a team's cap situation. And this is, of course, IF he is not just merely "cleared to play" but can actually make all the throws and do it consistently for a long period of time.

The guy approaches the LOS and makes, usually, the right read pre-snap and goes to the right spot in the midst of the play unfolding in front of him. He's accurate. What else do you want? It allows you to go after WR and TE in the draft and get him the types of guys he likes to work with, too.

I think it'd be a helluva' deal, actually. Major problem/sticking point is his desire to be in control of playcalling. THAT is probably the dagger through the heart of any speculation about #18 landing in Houston.
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Old 02-07-2012   #82
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, for what it's worth.
Well that pretty much destroys what I think of him playing for a hefty fee. If you can get a Peyton Manning for a cheap contract it's worth thinking about. I'm not convinced Kubiak would be able to sell Manning on the Kubiak system and him (Kubiak) probably having final decision on what play gets executed when the ball is snapped.

Who knows though, if Manning is willing to play entirely for escalators with no guarantees then why not take a look at him.
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Old 02-07-2012   #83
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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I think it'd be a helluva' deal, actually. Major problem/sticking point is his desire to be in control of playcalling. THAT is probably the dagger through the heart of any speculation about #18 landing in Houston.
Manning gets three plays called and he chooses the best one based on what the defense is in.

He's not just up at the line drawing stuff up in the dirt.
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Old 02-07-2012   #84
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Well that pretty much destroys what I think of him playing for a hefty fee. If you can get a Peyton Manning for a cheap contract it's worth thinking about. I'm not convinced Kubiak would be able to sell Manning on the Kubiak system and him (Kubiak) probably having final decision on what play gets executed when the ball is snapped.

Who knows though, if Manning is willing to play entirely for escalators with no guarantees then why not take a look at him.
This has been my opinion all along and I never thought he'd sign a big contract again...

That made no sense and he knows that makes no sense.
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Old 02-07-2012   #85
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
This has been my opinion all along and I never thought he'd sign a big contract again...

That made no sense and he knows that makes no sense.
There will be a bidding war over his services, don't think there won't be. Any contract he signs with a team will be based on him passing a physical and that team being okay with what he can accomplish.

He'll "play" for a contract like that, but somebody will pony up more dough than what I would be comfortable than the Texans giving out to sign Peyton Manning if he is not a Colt in 2012.
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Old 02-07-2012   #86
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

Yep, IF IF IF he is dead-dog serious about wanting to play for the chance to prove people wrong, to win a ring again, and be a gamer....the Houston Texans represent a very attractive landing spot for him.

I mean, why is Miami the sexy pick right now? He would still have to play in cold weather vs. Bills, Jets, and Patriots. Other than Brandon Marshall, the Dolphins have zilch for him to work with...except that decoy guy at RB. I suppose Florida having no state income tax is a plus. But so is Texas!

This team has as much upside and momentum as any team he could land with. It had everything, IMO, to win the Super Bowl except the injury to Schaub derailed it. And the injury to AJ. Our defense KILLED IT all year long, even without Mario Williams. This team is as complete as any team #18 has ever QB'd before.

I think you let Mario walk, sign #18 to a friendly contract, and make a run at Reggie Wayne. Take BPA in the draft and have multiple orgasms with every pick we make in the draft....because you'd know that we upgraded WR, without giving up draft picks for some guy like Blackmon, and you got at least 1 year to see if #18 can give you 3 to 4 years of QB play with the weapons of Foster, Tate, AJ, Wayne, Daniels, Dreessen, Walter, Casey, Lestar Jean. DAMN!!! And that's not even looking at who we'd draft in 2012 either.

Tell me #18 wouldn't like to snag Reggie Wayne, play for the Texans, and shove it to Irsay for the next four years while they try to get Andrew Luck up and running. Thanks for the memories, Jim Irsay!
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Old 02-07-2012   #87
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

Peyton to the 49ers makes sense to me. They can re-sign Alex Smith for relatively cheap, since he won't be sought after in free agency, and sign Peyton to his 'incentive laden deal'. They have tons of capspace to get it done, and if Peyton doesn't work out, Smith is a decently capable starter. Low risk, potentially high reward. It's not much risk for them because they have lots of flexibility with their cap room, the Texans do not.

In the Texans' case it's either Schaub or Peyton, and if the Texans go after Peyton, they will likely lose other free agents in the process too. It's just not a good situation given the uncertainty of Manning's neck. Stick with Schaub, Yates and Lienart/Draft pick, plus re-sign the core guys that made us a playoff contender this year. We will be better off over the next few years that way and for years to come.
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Old 02-07-2012   #88
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Manning gets three plays called and he chooses the best one based on what the defense is in.

He's not just up at the line drawing stuff up in the dirt.
Exactly. Not sure why people can't get this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
This has been my opinion all along and I never thought he'd sign a big contract again...

That made no sense and he knows that makes no sense.
I think he is going to play chicken for the $28 mil. Then he will sign a contract much smaller guaranteed but still very big potentially with another team. I can't see it being with the Texans.
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Old 02-07-2012   #89
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Yep, IF IF IF he is dead-dog serious about wanting to play for the chance to prove people wrong, to win a ring again, and be a gamer....the Houston Texans represent a very attractive landing spot for him.

I mean, why is Miami the sexy pick right now? !


Miami would let him do whatever he wanted and have a defense that is better than most of the Colts teams he played with. I doubt Gary Kubiak would be a coach that he thinks he could work with enough to implement what Peyton Manning wants to do on offense.

Gotta remember that he's probably looking at competitiveness of the team, compatibility with the coaching staff, and the money. I'm sure Peyton wouldn't turn down a guarantee laden contract just to prove he is worth it by playing for escalators.
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Old 02-07-2012   #90
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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Exactly. Not sure why people can't get this.
The situation Rey described is way more versatility with playcalling than Gary Kubiak has ever shown he allows a QB.
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Old 02-07-2012   #91
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

You know who might be drinking heavily over the next few weeks, waiting for March deadline to arrive, to see if he can get Peyton Manning???

Skeletor.

I think he's ready to pull the rug out from underneath Tony Romo. It's gone nowhere for years and years. He has a stadium and a fan base to feed. He has a RB now, potentially, and he has Dez Bryant and a couple other good WRs. He has Witten.

Yeah, I think I can foresee the day coming when Jerry Jones throws all his chips into the pile for #18. Garrett won't give a crap. "Whatever you want, boss man." And he'll just let Manning do his thing.

Can you see it? #18 with an iconic Cowboys star on the side of his helmet? He'll try to get it done before the NFL schedules it's prime time game lineup with SNF and MNF. Because that'd make NBC and ESPN go goo-goo gaga to get the Cowboys games in 2012. Jerry is like that, man.
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Old 02-07-2012   #92
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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I'm just playing devil's advocate here, for what it's worth.
Your scenario is actually very interesting and in my perspective, even plausible.

With regards to potential teams, I think NFC teams are unlikely as Archie wants to see a Manning vs. Manning Super Bowl. So let's just theoretically take the NFC out of the picture.

I'm not sure facing Brady/Patriots twice a season in the same division on a weaker team is going to interest him. Certainly not the Jets with the New York media, and Miami is transitioning right now so lots of instability.

The AFC west is possible simply because the division is so freakin' weak. But who? The Chargers are set, so maybe the Broncos? Great defense, but with the publics mancrush on Tebow, I do not see the Denver front office rocking that boat with high priced QB.

AFC North? I don't think Manning would dig the weather, and what team? The Browns are the only team without a franchise QB, and I have no doubt he's not interesting in Cleveland.

So that leaves the AFC south, where Peyton is right at home. The Texans are about as plug & play for an elite QB as anyone in the league. Manning to Johnson??! That's highlight potential right there. Then add in Daniels, Dreesen, and a solid #2 WR, along with the Foster/Tate combo? Plus, our defense is built to protect a lead, where they can pin their ears in a pass rush and really take advantage of early leads like Peyton often builds.

I said earlier in this thread that this blog was tripe, but maybe I was just jumping to conclusions due to rooting against Manning for so long, not really liking Solomon, and never getting my hopes up based upon pipe dreams.

But, if the opportunity knocks, would I be upset to see Manning on our sideline? Not if it means what I think it could mean in the big picture.
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Old 02-07-2012   #93
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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The AFC west is possible simply because the division is so freakin' weak. But who? The Chargers are set, so maybe the Broncos? Great defense, but with the publics mancrush on Tebow, I do not see the Denver front office rocking that boat with high priced QB.
The Chiefs can pretty much cut Cassel without paying more than a million or two to him, so there is room for him to go there. Cassel is due only 6 mill next year (per sportrac), so they could keep him as a contingency for a relatively cheap amount (similar to the Alex Smith deal I proposed). The big question though, "is the rest of the team up to task to compete for a Super Bowl?"

They can franchise tag Bowe so he's not going anywhere, and have plenty of money to sign some free agents like Wayne and a #2 RB to backup JC or pickup Dallas Clark if released. Then they can spend that #11 pick on O-line to protect their Peyton investment. Peyton with starting WRs of Bowe, Wayne, Breaston in the slot and Jonathan Baldwin would be pretty sweet. Man, that would be a potent offense right there, assuming Manning stays healthy and they improve the O-line.
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Old 02-07-2012   #94
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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There will be a bidding war over his services, don't think there won't be. Any contract he signs with a team will be based on him passing a physical and that team being okay with what he can accomplish.

He'll "play" for a contract like that, but somebody will pony up more dough than what I would be comfortable than the Texans giving out to sign Peyton Manning if he is not a Colt in 2012.
If the contract is incentive laden then then it doesn't matter as much. That was my point.

There will be no bidding war because he's not going to go to the team that bids the most. He has plenty of money. He will go to the team that he likes the best.
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Old 02-07-2012   #95
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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If the contract is incentive laden then then it doesn't matter as much. That was my point.

There will be no bidding war because he's not going to go to the team that bids the most. He has plenty of money. He will go to the team that he likes the best.
The problem for the team is that if they give him an incentive based deal for up to 20 mill and he earns it, whatever amount they go over the 2012 cap counts against their 2013 cap. So the team that signs him will have to worry about that, or be ready to purge some money next year.
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Old 02-07-2012   #96
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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I think he is going to play chicken for the $28 mil. Then he will sign a contract much smaller guaranteed but still very big potentially with another team. I can't see it being with the Texans.
Honestly, I don't think it's likely...

But it's nice to imagine letting Mario walk, Cutting Schaub (I'm not a cap guy...I don't know how much that saves if any) and possibly picking up Reggie Wayne...

That would immediately make us legit superbowl contenders...

Probably not going to happen, but hey...
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Old 02-07-2012   #97
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

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The problem for the team is that if they give him an incentive based deal for up to 20 mill and he earns it, whatever amount they go over the 2012 cap counts against their 2013 cap. So the team that signs him will have to worry about that, or be ready to purge some money next year.
I understand that, but we are talking about bringing a Lombardi to Houston...

Yes, the team has to be fiscally responsible. I get that. But when you have a legit shot at going to the superbowl I say shoot for it. If you are in a tight spot next year then we will have to deal with it. That is a risk I'd be willing to take.

I doubt the Texans will do this at the end of the day, but I'm just saying that I would...
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Old 02-07-2012   #98
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

If Manning is cut and you are the texans you should at the very least see what manning would want.
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Old 02-07-2012   #99
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

Its not as far fetched as most people think. I believe the Texans will make contact and see exactly how much interest he has in wanting to play for the Texans. Someone mentioned a contract given to him for percentage of snaps played during the season with each 10 percent of snaps he plays he's guaranteed so much money. Something along the lines of 1.5 million for every 10 percent so if he plays 100% of the snaps he gets 15 million. Again, I'm not saying this is what the Texans should offer, but I think any team that signs him this format would make sense on both fronts.

The issue of Manning being able to not get along with Kubiak is silly to me. Both of these guys are really good offensive minds and I think Kubiak would love to have a film/practice rat like Manning running his offense. Both of these guys want to win to cement their legacy. Kubiak being the first coach to bring a Super Bowl to Houston and Manning getting a few more to leave no doubt about his status as an all-time great. They would find a way to make it work if that's what both sides decided to do.

If Manning is looking to win now, San Francisco and Houston make the most sense. Both have great defenses and strong running games. Houston I think has and with a few off-season will definitely have more offensive weapons to his liking.
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Old 02-07-2012   #100
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Default Re: Solomon: If Manning on market, Texans should be first in line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
The Chiefs can pretty much cut Cassel without paying more than a million or two to him, so there is room for him to go there. Cassel is due only 6 mill next year (per sportrac), so they could keep him as a contingency for a relatively cheap amount (similar to the Alex Smith deal I proposed). The big question though, "is the rest of the team up to task to compete for a Super Bowl?"

They can franchise tag Bowe so he's not going anywhere, and have plenty of money to sign some free agents like Wayne and a #2 RB to backup JC or pickup Dallas Clark if released. Then they can spend that #11 pick on O-line to protect their Peyton investment. Peyton with starting WRs of Bowe, Wayne, Breaston in the slot and Jonathan Baldwin would be pretty sweet. Man, that would be a potent offense right there, assuming Manning stays healthy and they improve the O-line.
I thought about the Chiefs, but they still seem 2-3 years away to build a contender.

I think if Manning were to look for another team he will be looking for a team that has the potential to make a run in 2012. He's too old to rebuild, which is why I think he's out in Indy. If he's able to play, how many more years with that neck? 2? Maybe 3? He's got a find a team that is plug & play ready for him. The Texans are on the short list in that regard.

I do not think it will happen, though, but it is fun to speculate.

And how weird would it be to root for Peyton Manning after so many years?
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