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Old 01-26-2012   #1
Quick II Draw
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Default Is it just me...

Or are the Texans one of the deepest, most talent rich teams in the NFL right now? It's strange to think back just a few years ago where I could point out so many glaring holes on the depth chart. League's worst secondary, Demeco was the only really good linebacker, zero interior pressure, slightly-above-average O-line. All of the sudden the Texans have a top 5 RB with a starter-caliber backup, a top 5 O-line, an amazing front seven, one of the greatest emerging MLB talents in the league (and he's not named Demeco), a pretty good secondary. Crazy.

So, how did this happen?

Is the front office getting a lot better at evaluating talent? Is the coaching staff developing players better?

Were the Texans not as mediocre as I used to think, and are they not as good as I think they are now? Or was it just some dumb luck?
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Old 01-26-2012   #2
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Default Re: Is it just me...

Not crazy at all.

The Texans, when healthy, are the most well-rounded team in the league.

A young, deep, and crazy defense, a shutdown corner, one of the best offensive lines in the game, the deepest running attack, the best WR in football, a top 8-12 QB, and two very solid TEs.
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Old 01-26-2012   #3
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Default Re: Is it just me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick II Draw View Post
Or are the Texans one of the deepest, most talent rich teams in the NFL right now? It's strange to think back just a few years ago where I could point out so many glaring holes on the depth chart. League's worst secondary, Demeco was the only really good linebacker, zero interior pressure, slightly-above-average O-line. All of the sudden the Texans have a top 5 RB with a starter-caliber backup, a top 5 O-line, an amazing front seven, one of the greatest emerging MLB talents in the league (and he's not named Demeco), a pretty good secondary. Crazy.

So, how did this happen?

Is the front office getting a lot better at evaluating talent? Is the coaching staff developing players better?

Were the Texans not as mediocre as I used to think, and are they not as good as I think they are now? Or was it just some dumb luck?
Two simple words - Ownership and Coaching

We have basically the same team. On offense we had a guy that made his hay by coaching offense succesfully - Gary Kubiak. However for all those years our HC was trying out coaches to coach defense (Richard Smith, and I forget the guy who wen to Tenn). That wasn't working so finally ownership had enough of that and went and hand picked their DC and got one who is not a position coach but someone who very well make the HOF based on being a DC alone and had a reputation for changing sorry defenses to great ones. That's what happened. Bottom line.
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Old 01-26-2012   #4
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Default Re: Is it just me...

I agree with ya, I think they have been killing the draft since Kubes came over. They have a great scouting department IMO but this next one will be a tough test due to so few needs and the picks much lower in the rounds, All we can hope for is one immediate starter from this next draft.
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Old 01-26-2012   #5
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Default Re: Is it just me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick II Draw View Post
Or are the Texans one of the deepest, most talent rich teams in the NFL right now? It's strange to think back just a few years ago where I could point out so many glaring holes on the depth chart. League's worst secondary, Demeco was the only really good linebacker, zero interior pressure, slightly-above-average O-line. All of the sudden the Texans have a top 5 RB with a starter-caliber backup, a top 5 O-line, an amazing front seven, one of the greatest emerging MLB talents in the league (and he's not named Demeco), a pretty good secondary. Crazy.

So, how did this happen?

Is the front office getting a lot better at evaluating talent? Is the coaching staff developing players better?

Were the Texans not as mediocre as I used to think, and are they not as good as I think they are now? Or was it just some dumb luck?
this is the reason Kubiak had so much heat from the fans the last two seasons before this one...the talent didn't just pop up out of nowhere this season. This is the first season in a few years where I don't think the team underachieved.
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Old 01-26-2012   #6
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Default Re: Is it just me...

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this is the reason Kubiak had so much heat from the fans the last two seasons before this one...the talent didn't just pop up out of nowhere this season. This is the first season in a few years where I don't think the team underachieved.
Jonathan Joseph, J.J. Watt, Brooks Reed?? Those three alone make the "talent" angle debatable.
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Old 01-26-2012   #7
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Default Re: Is it just me...

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Jonathan Joseph, J.J. Watt, Brooks Reed?? Those three alone make the "talent" angle debatable.
I guess you thought Kubiak did well to get us to 6-10 last season huh?
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Old 01-26-2012   #8
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Default Re: Is it just me...

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I guess you thought Kubiak did well to get us to 6-10 last season huh?
You guessed wrong.

I said it's debatable that talent didn't "pop out of nowhere" on the defense this season.
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Old 01-26-2012   #9
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Default Re: Is it just me...

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Jonathan Joseph, J.J. Watt, Brooks Reed?? Those three alone make the "talent" angle debatable.
Danieal Manning as well. they also worked to keep some FB blocking in place w/ Vickers.

For once, the Draft and FA Gods were good to the Texans.
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Old 01-26-2012   #10
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Default Re: Is it just me...

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
You guessed wrong.

I said it's debatable that talent didn't "pop out of nowhere" on the defense this season.
Guessed what wrong? This didn't have to be a HISTORICALLY bad defense last year. This team totally underachieved for a couple of seasons and the talent level was good enough to complete for a playoff spot last year...not win it all like this year, but at least be .500. Nobody thought we'd have the worst d in the NFL. Most fans thought we would compete for a playoff spot last year.
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Old 01-26-2012   #11
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Default

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Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
..
(Richard Smith, and I forget the guy who wen to Tenn)...
We'd like to forget him (Frank Bush) too!
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Old 01-26-2012   #12
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Default Re: Is it just me...

I think Vinny's point is more along the lines of that the team hasn't been totally bereft of talent on both sides of the ball. I would've loved a top 5 defense last year like this, but honestly they didn't NEED to be much more than a middle of the road defense to compete for a playoff spot.

What happened this year was something many have been calling for since the second dismal year with Richard Smith. Hire a DC with a track record of fielding good defenses.

Yes, getting Watt and Reed in the draft were big pluses, but only with a coordinator who knows what to do with their respective skill sets. That's what seperates a Wade Phillips from a Frank Bush.

Far as getting Joseph and Manning here, I have doubts either would've signed here with a Frank Bush type coordinator.

Honestly, I could care less whether or not McNair went over Kubiak's back to hire Phillips. Point is they got a DC in who knows what they are doing and that IMO made the difference between another lukewarm .500ish season into one that gave us a playoff berth and win at home.
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Old 01-26-2012   #13
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Default Re: Is it just me...

The talent those new guys replaced used to stink up the joint for half the season and then come on like gangbusters over the last 6 weeks. They did this year after year and every season would start with us expecting to see the defense that walked off the field at the end of the previous year only to be treated to another 6-8 weeks of some of the worst defense out there.

So which defense were they? The lousy one that started every year or the great one that finished every year? I think (opinion follows as usual) it was a Richard Smith/Frank Bush thing. It's not that they couldn't play well all year long. The inexperienced DC pulling their strings didn't know enough or didn't get desperate enough to let them off the chain until things were completely out of hand and the season was lost.
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Old 01-26-2012   #14
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Default Re: Is it just me...

Wade Phillips. That is what occurred.
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Old 01-26-2012   #15
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Post Re: Is it just me...

Well, in past years, we were all looking forward to the draft before the season ended. That didn't happen this year. I'm not even worried about who the Texans will pick this year. I'll watch with interest, but this year I'm more curious about the players picked rather than worried about fixing the team.
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Old 01-26-2012   #16
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Default Re: Is it just me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Guessed what wrong? This didn't have to be a HISTORICALLY bad defense last year. This team totally underachieved for a couple of seasons and the talent level was good enough to complete for a playoff spot last year...not win it all like this year, but at least be .500. Nobody thought we'd have the worst d in the NFL. Most fans thought we would compete for a playoff spot last year.
Well nobody thought we'd draft Kareem Jackson in the first round (mind you we just lost our best CB to FA). I'm not a KJ basher, but he basically was our Dunta Robinson replacement last year (there is usually a dropoff between rookie and vet). We also lost Demeco Ryans early in the season. In hindsight it's not as surprising if you weigh the circumstances. Of course I was not totally shocked (was upset) when we did not make the playoffs, if you think about how bad our defense was early on. Then we have the injury to Demeco in week 6, right before the bye. We just never got better on the defensive side of the ball.
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Old 01-28-2012   #17
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Default Re: Is it just me...

Is it just me that dislikes thread titles without the topic included?

Subtract Okoye, Pollard, Wilson, and Diles and add Watt, Joseph, Manning, and Reed. Yes, that's an upgrade in talent. But the biggest upgrade was Phillips over what was here before. Without Wade, the new players wouldn't have made the impact that occurred.
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Old 01-28-2012   #18
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Default Re: Is it just me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick II Draw View Post
Or are the Texans one of the deepest, most talent rich teams in the NFL right now? It's strange to think back just a few years ago where I could point out so many glaring holes on the depth chart. League's worst secondary, Demeco was the only really good linebacker, zero interior pressure, slightly-above-average O-line. All of the sudden the Texans have a top 5 RB with a starter-caliber backup, a top 5 O-line, an amazing front seven, one of the greatest emerging MLB talents in the league (and he's not named Demeco), a pretty good secondary. Crazy.

So, how did this happen?

Is the front office getting a lot better at evaluating talent? Is the coaching staff developing players better?

Were the Texans not as mediocre as I used to think, and are they not as good as I think they are now? Or was it just some dumb luck?
i am going with low risk moves:
Signing Wade Phillips historically a 3-4 defensive genius
drafting Watt safest pick in draft
drafting Reed who most thought was a first round talent as did I.
signing Joseph who most thought was second best CB FA available
signing FS Manning best FA at his position which also was a priority
hitting on UDFA Arian Foster and not giving up on him.

All low risk high reward. Other things were signifcant but these are the key. It should only get better. Many are focusing on Mario but I think Matt Schaub decision in 2013 wil cause even longer threads.
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Old 01-28-2012   #19
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Default Re: Is it just me...

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Originally Posted by cbs1507 View Post
Well nobody thought we'd draft Kareem Jackson in the first round (mind you we just lost our best CB to FA). I'm not a KJ basher, but he basically was our Dunta Robinson replacement last year (there is usually a dropoff between rookie and vet). We also lost Demeco Ryans early in the season. In hindsight it's not as surprising if you weigh the circumstances. Of course I was not totally shocked (was upset) when we did not make the playoffs, if you think about how bad our defense was early on. Then we have the injury to Demeco in week 6, right before the bye. We just never got better on the defensive side of the ball.
Also, Cushing and Duane Brown had better seasons
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Old 01-28-2012   #20
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Default Re: Is it just me...

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Is it just me that dislikes thread titles without the topic included?
Subtract Okoye, Pollard, Wilson, and Diles and add Watt, Joseph, Manning, and Reed. Yes, that's an upgrade in talent. But the biggest upgrade was Phillips over what was here before. Without Wade, the new players wouldn't have made the impact that occurred.
nah, I just usually open them later.
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