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Old 01-25-2012   #21
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
In AJ's article


Given that Sportrac has done a great job of SEO and attempting to be the go to source for cap discussions, it only makes sense to use it as the baseline for these discussions without knowing actual cap implications. With that said, let's take a look at other top AFC teams and how their top six players will affect their cap in 2012, according to Sportrac.

Ravens - Ngata, Suggs, Reed, Foxworth, Flacco, Gurode = ~$64m and have Ray Rice as a UFA

Steelers - Roethlisberger, Harrison, Timmons, Taylor, Hampton, Woodley = ~$54m

Patriots - Brady, Wilfork, Light, Mankins, Ochocinco, Mayo = ~$46m

Broncos - Bailey, Dumervil, Dawkins, Warren, Williams, Tebow = ~$53m

This is simply an exercise to chip away at the 2012 "doomsday" scenario of six players being X percentage of cap. As one can easily see it is not local to the Texans, but representative of the power structure in the AFC. However, this exercise still does not account for 2013 and beyond cap implications, which is the crux of the conversation.
Great stuff, but I think you forgot to add that Peyton has to be taking up about 75% of their cap. It's the only explanation for how bad they are...
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Old 01-25-2012   #22
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It was good to see 16.6 million used in that article. I'm constantly hearing that number and 22.

Something else that was brought up elsewhere is that Mario had a hell of a number this year (17m - unconfirmed), so a franchising would actually drop it.

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Old 01-25-2012   #23
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

It's alright if the Texans simply slap the franchise tag on Mario Williams. We can talk about re-signing Mario Williams long-term next year. After the Texans win Super Bowl 47 and he produces a great 16-game season and playoff performance.

He's coming off a disappointing, season-ending injury, and even he realizes he shouldn't be trying to milk every penny out of this franchise right now. The franchise tag will make him the richest defensive player in the NFL as it stands, set to make as high as a $22 million base salary for 2012.
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Old 01-25-2012   #24
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
It was good to see 16.6 million used in that article. I'm constantly hearing that number and 22.

Something else that was brought up elsewhere is that Mario had a hell of a number this year (17m - unconfirmed), so a franchising would actually drop it.

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Franchising MW would NOT drop his cap number but would in fact push it to $23m.

Its the greater value of the following -

The average of the top five salaries at the position of the player in question.

Or

100%+20% of the previous years salary.

In this case the greater value would be 100%+20% of the previous years salary as it is considerably more than the top five OLB's average salary.

I think teams will attempt to avoid this in the future by not backloading the final year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade View Post
It's alright if the Texans simply slap the franchise tag on Mario Williams. We can talk about re-signing Mario Williams long-term next year. After the Texans win Super Bowl 47 and he produces a great 16-game season and playoff performance.

He's coming off a disappointing, season-ending injury, and even he realizes he shouldn't be trying to milk every penny out of this franchise right now. The franchise tag will make him the richest defensive player in the NFL as it stands, set to make as high as a $22 million base salary for 2012.
I dont think they can afford that much when they have Foster , Dreesen , Myers and Briesel to deal with not to mention any outside FA's thye may want to bring in.

They have to get his cap number down in the 10m range for the coming year at most.
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Old 01-25-2012   #25
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Franchising MW would NOT drop his cap number but would in fact push it to $23m.

Its the greater value of the following -

The average of the top five salaries at the position of the player in question.

Or

100%+20% of the previous years salary.

In this case the greater value would be 100%+20% of the previous years salary as it is considerably more than the top five OLB's average salary.

I think teams will attempt to avoid this in the future by not backloading the final year.




I dont think they can afford that much when they have Foster , Dreesen , Myers and Briesel to deal with not to mention any outside FA's thye may want to bring in.

They have to get his cap number down in the 10m range for the coming year at most.
I thought that rule was for the older CBA and now it's going to a more formulated plan. The new way of formulating the franchise tag is based on other factors and a formula to account for it.

"In the past, a franchise tag was derived from averaging the top five salaries at a particular position from the previous season. The new formula is much more complicated and is formed by determining the franchise tags at that position over the last five years as a percentage of the overall cap figure in each of those five years."

Overall, I would picture that making tags a bit cheaper than we initially projected.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-board-in-2012
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Old 01-25-2012   #26
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Originally Posted by le14 View Post
I thought that rule was for the older CBA and now it's going to a more formulated plan. The new way of formulating the franchise tag is based on other factors and a formula to account for it.

"In the past, a franchise tag was derived from averaging the top five salaries at a particular position from the previous season. The new formula is much more complicated and is formed by determining the franchise tags at that position over the last five years as a percentage of the overall cap figure in each of those five years."

Overall, I would picture that making tags a bit cheaper than we initially projected.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-board-in-2012
From your link -

Quote:
Defensive end: $10.6 million (down from $13 million in 2011, $12.4 million in 2010); Jason Jones, Mario Williams*
If they can franchise MW for that number ... I'd do it in a heartbeat. Im just not so sure thats an accurate number.

We'll have to wait and see because there is a lot of new stuff in this CBA .... Maybe Kaiser Toro or someone else can find / figure the numbers.


Either way , good find.
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Old 01-27-2012   #27
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Reading that game me a headache .... Rick has his work cut out for him.
And that's just a short summary. Actual details are for accountants and shyster lawyers.
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Old 01-27-2012   #28
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
From your link -



If they can franchise MW for that number ... I'd do it in a heartbeat. Im just not so sure thats an accurate number.

We'll have to wait and see because there is a lot of new stuff in this CBA .... Maybe Kaiser Toro or someone else can find / figure the numbers.


Either way , good find.
Linebacker: $8.8 million (down from $10.1 million in 2011, $9.7 million in 2010); Stephen Tulloch

I wonder if using these figures would make a four year, $46M deal. 2012 $10M, 2013 $11M, 2014 $15M, 2015 $10M workable with half of each year guaranteed? The new contract has incentives to hold down the final year backloading.
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Old 01-27-2012   #29
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

So just a quick question: when will we know more? When can they offer new contracts and until when do they have to make up their mind?
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Old 01-27-2012   #30
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
Linebacker: $8.8 million (down from $10.1 million in 2011, $9.7 million in 2010); Stephen Tulloch

I wonder if using these figures would make a four year, $46M deal. 2012 $10M, 2013 $11M, 2014 $15M, 2015 $10M workable with half of each year guaranteed? The new contract has incentives to hold down the final year backloading.
The new CBA stipulates for a franchise tag that the average of the top paid at the position for the last few seasons or 120% of the salary of the last year of the expired contract, whichever is greater and he made like $14 million last year.
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Old 01-27-2012   #31
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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The new CBA stipulates for a franchise tag that the average of the top paid at the position for the last few seasons or 120% of the salary of the last year of the expired contract, whichever is greater and he made like $14 million last year.
No read my post up top, that's the old CBA rules
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Old 01-27-2012   #32
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Sign 'em and trade him. Whatever we sign him to, could bring multiple future picks. I'd be willing to explore that possibility as opposed to just letting him walk.



*Disclaimer*

I like Mario and would love for him to have played his entire career here in Houston, but at the end of the day, you have to look at the overall value. It's just not there unless you sign him and get something in return... Something substantial!!
This is a positional change for you, correct?
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Old 01-27-2012   #33
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Originally Posted by le14 View Post
No read my post up top, that's the old CBA rules
Yes the 20% is in the new CBA and has been posted repeated on this MB. If Mario salary based 2011 was 14. He will get that + 20 %. Averages of positional players has nothing to do with Mario.
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Old 01-27-2012   #34
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Originally Posted by Raf View Post
The new CBA stipulates for a franchise tag that the average of the top paid at the position for the last few seasons or 120% of the salary of the last year of the expired contract, whichever is greater and he made like $14 million last year.
You are correct Raf
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Old 01-27-2012   #35
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
In AJ's article

...

This is simply an exercise to chip away at the 2012 "doomsday" scenario of six players being X percentage of cap. As one can easily see it is not local to the Texans, but representative of the power structure in the AFC. However, this exercise still does not account for 2013 and beyond cap implications, which is the crux of the conversation.
Not trying to paint a 'doomsday' scenario (your words). But the point is given the Texans 2013 FA situation, tying up that much in Arian and Mario could be very cap unhealthy down the line. The teams you list have similar issues as the Texans. Chip away.
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Old 01-27-2012   #36
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Not trying to paint a 'doomsday' scenario (your words). But the point is given the Texans 2013 FA situation, tying up that much in Arian and Mario could be very cap unhealthy down the line. The teams you list have similar issues as the Texans. Chip away.
Those were 100% percent my words, and did not mean to attach that term to you, others had been bringing it up prior to your article. Your words were quoted.

Good to see you around, and thank you for your continued contribution to all things Texans.
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Old 01-27-2012   #37
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

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Originally Posted by aj. View Post
Not trying to paint a 'doomsday' scenario (your words). But the point is given the Texans 2013 FA situation, tying up that much in Arian and Mario could be very cap unhealthy down the line. The teams you list have similar issues as the Texans. Chip away.
AJ would you not agree that another year would possibly eliminate other contracts such as the log jam we now have at corner? Wade Smith could also be gone or even (spank me for saying) Matt Schaub? He is signed thru 2012 as you know and we could draft QB in first 2013 like Tyler Bray Tennessee or Tyler Wilson Arkansas?

If Foster & Williams are sign smartly, it does not have to lead to Doomsday in 2013 especially with TV deal coming on that year.
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Old 01-28-2012   #38
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

Foster is a restricted free agent....so all they have to do is match whoever is offering him a contract.

Defensive Ends/Linebackers last a longer time in the NFL than do Running Backs......

I think we should make a offer to Mario William. I do not think we should franchise him.....that would be 22 million a year I think.

He has said he wants to play here....I bet he does seeing how Wade Phillips has turned this defense around and seeing the type of results the defense has done under Phillips.....

The question Mario has to ask himself.....Does he want to start over somewhere else....or stay here when everything is just getting real good.
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Old 01-28-2012   #39
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

blah blah blah... this is the same as mcclain's 'they cant afford nnamdi' bs as last yr. he'll quickly flop position on this too shortly before we sign ALL our important FA's (imo dreessen and allen are the most likely starters/players that will leave.. and ever they're not likely)and this will be a big non story used by the chron and others to fill columns during jan & feb

so to answer the q- yes we will sign them both & others and im not worried that they wont in the slightest
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Old 01-28-2012   #40
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Default Re: AJ:Can the Texans afford Mario Williams and Arian Foster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
Linebacker: $8.8 million (down from $10.1 million in 2011, $9.7 million in 2010); Stephen Tulloch

I wonder if using these figures would make a four year, $46M deal. 2012 $10M, 2013 $11M, 2014 $15M, 2015 $10M workable with half of each year guaranteed? The new contract has incentives to hold down the final year backloading.
Add two more non-guaranteed years totaling $24m and slam some of your totl dollars into upfront bonus say $25m therefore allowing each base year to be reduced and I think Agent agrees.
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