How do you feel about Kubiak?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I think that several posts in this thread debunk that statement.

I don't believe they do. As we saw during the season, these same people were down on Kubiak after we lost to Carolina... 7 game win streak be damned.

I would wager, if we go 13-0 through next season, it would be love & roses & koolaid flowing down Kirby. Lose that 14th game & it's back to "same old Kubiak" "Wade is the reason for the 13-0, Kubiak for the lost game." etc... etc...

[Runner]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I would wager, if we go 13-0 through next season, it would be love & roses & koolaid flowing down Kirby. Lose that 14th game & it's back to "same old Kubiak" "Wade is the reason for the 13-0, Kubiak for the lost game." etc... etc...

I don't get the point of making up stupid scenarios so the poster can argue against them to show how dumb the "other side" is.

How about "I would wager that if the Texans start off 0-8 next year, people would say that three games were because of bad officiating, two were lost because of thunderstorms, and the other three were because they had to play three tough teams in a row, and one was coming off a bye! Kubiak has them on the right track! The team he took over sucked!"

Wow - I just proved pro-Kubiak people are wrong, unreasonable, and probably mentally deficient. It was so easy too. I should have used this tactic long ago.

Or not.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Runner

I don't get the point of making up stupid scenarios so the poster can argue against them to show how dumb the "other side" is.

How about "I would wager that if the Texans start off 0-8 next year, people would say that three games were because of bad officiating, two were lost because of thunderstorms, and the other three were because they had to play three tough teams in a row, and one was coming off a bye! Kubiak has them on the right track! The team he took over sucked!"

Wow - I just proved pro-Kubiak people are wrong, unreasonable, and probably mentally deficient. It was so easy too. I should have used this tactic long ago.

Or not.

You ignored the first part of the post - which was not hypothetical - where some people (not all to be sure) jumped all over Kubiak when we failed to stretch that 7-game winning streak to 8 when we lost to Carolina. I seem to recall several "Kubiak cannot win without Wade..." posts. Remember those??

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Runner

I don't get the point of making up stupid scenarios so the poster can argue against them to show how dumb the "other side" is.

How about "I would wager that if the Texans start off 0-8 next year, people would say that three games were because of bad officiating, two were lost because of thunderstorms, and the other three were because they had to play three tough teams in a row, and one was coming off a bye! Kubiak has them on the right track! The team he took over sucked!"

Wow - I just proved pro-Kubiak people are wrong, unreasonable, and probably mentally deficient. It was so easy too. I should have used this tactic long ago.

Or not.

For the record TK said that he would completely bail all support on Gary Kubiak after this season if he did not reach the AFC Championship or further. Yet, now he is still saying extreme things to defend the guy or to make his criticizers sound foolish that aren't even true. Kubiak could go 3-13 next season and the guy would act like he never even supported him. It's exactly why I don't take anything he says seriously especially when he makes up scenarios like that.

[GNTLEWOLF]

Originally Posted by Runner

My opinion of Kubiak hasn't changed. Looking at his body of work, this year is an anomaly. I think the easy schedule had as much to do with the 10-6 record as anything else did. During the rest of his tenure, the team usually stayed about the same or incrementally improved every season. One year they performed significantly worse.

I think he was fortunate not to be fired after each of the three previous seasons.

If he does well next year, my opinion will probably change and I might think he has finally become a competent head coach. However, that won't change my opinion that his previous poor coaching has held the Texans back. This season should not have been the Texans first season in the play-offs. Kubiak looked like a rookie head coach for too many seasons.

I have to agree with Runner on this one. I’m not convinced that this season is for real. I tend to think it is probably an anomaly given the data base of evidence in existence thus far.
I have long maintained my belief that Kubiak is Marvin Lewis and the Texans are the Bengals of the AFC South. Lewis’ record so far has been that he stays right around a .500 record career. One year he will have his team in the play-off with a winning record and the next year or two he will be at or near the bottom of the division. I see Kubiak as that guy.
I have removed my “Fire Kubiak” avatar for now. I am waiting to see how next year turns out. I think that if the team has a convincing winning record next year along with a return to the play-offs that he should be extended. If not then …well it’s been fun…see ya!. I’m not sure the winning record and play-offs this year were so much a function of Kubiak’s growth as a Head Coach as much as a combination of an AFC South weakened by re-building, an overall soft schedule and Wade having taken over the defense. I’m waiting to see more. I am not satisfied with one real winning season (not counting the 9-7 here) and one play-off win when compared to the rest of the 6 year record. Give me another year or two looking good and I’m on board.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

For the record TK said that he would completely bail all support on Gary Kubiak after this season if he did not reach the AFC Championship or further. Yet, now he is still saying extreme things to defend the guy or to make his criticizers sound foolish that aren't even true. Kubiak could go 3-13 next season and the guy would act like he never even supported him. It's exactly why I don't take anything he says seriously especially when he makes up scenarios like that.

Whoa..... I'm not defending Kubiak.. show me his defense.

Kubiak has not earned an extension... That's where I said I would be if we did not reach the AFC Championship game.

& you have a big problem with reading comprehension. I'd love for you to post the "evidence" where I said I would pull out all support... but I know you won't find it.

[badboy]

I think this past season was a combination of several thing including shcedule, Manning not playing, Wade's draft and his 52 defense; emergence of our Oline playing together healthy most games; two FA DBs and Gary doing a bit better with his game plan. I am not shouting that we did so well in spite of our head coach but I am considering it as a possibility. With the right moves we could be even better and if that's the case he should get a mid-season extension.

[SuperSerial]

Originally Posted by cbs1507

I am not comparing him to Belichick. You are comparing Kubiak to Belichick. Belichick has a 17 year body of HC work. Kubiak has 6 years of HC work. I am comparing their first 6 years. Belichick had a worse record, the same amount of playoff wins/appearances. Kubiak has 1 division title in that span (0 for Belichick). You are using the benefit of hindsight. I am saying look at their 1st 6 years (since Kubiak does not have another 11 to compare to BB). Do you seriously think coaches immediately experience success in their early years?

My point is that it takes time for a coach to win in this league (especially when they have to build a franchise). I don't think anyone can argue that Kubiak has done a great job building this franchise into a contender.

Yes you are comparing Kubiak to BB.

I am not comparing anyone to anything. I don't know how you decided I was comparing anything. I was just commenting on your comment.

All I am saying is there are several Kubiak homers out there who blindly defend Kub's mediocre start by telling the world about BB's first six years to compare with Kub's first 6, as if that means Kubiak is somehow on the road to greatness. In other words, "Just keep dealing with this guy because if BB can suck and then be great, so can Kub".

My comment was simple. When you try to defend Kub with the BB comparison, don't conveniently forget to talk about the hundreds of coaches who may have had bad or mediocre starts as well, and later never amounted to anything. You are singling out one coach who was successful later in his career to compare Kub to. In that sense, you are twisting what the "jury" gets to hear, and are trying to mind screw them into getting the verdict you want. That is twisting the facts like a slick defense lawyer.

No big deal. That type of smoke and mirrors is expected from the Kool Aid Krowd.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by SuperSerial

My comment was simple. When you try to defend Kub with the BB comparison, don't conveniently forget to talk about the hundreds of coaches who may have had bad or mediocre starts as well, and later never amounted to anything. You are singling out one coach who was successful later in his career to compare Kub to. In that sense, you are twisting what the "jury" gets to hear, and are trying to mind screw them into getting the verdict you want. That is twisting the facts like a slick defense lawyer.

No big deal. That type of smoke and mirrors is expected from the Kool Aid Krowd.

I don't think it is smoke & mirrors. I am not hoping that Kubiak stays with the Texans for any length of time, but it is a valid point. Your rebuttal, that for every Belichick, there are a hundred Marvin Lewises is equally valid (if not accurate).

Belichick studied under the great Parcells, but he was not 100% ready to turn a team around, not a team like the expansion Browns (ooh, look, a similarity), however once he got to an organization with a more structure in place, he was able to build something special.

It's a dream, a pipe dream that Kubiak can build something here. Everyone with that argument knows that. Still a valid point, but the soapers won't let the rainbow warriors have one valid point.

[Runner]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

You ignored the first part of the post - which was not hypothetical - where some people (not all to be sure) jumped all over Kubiak when we failed to stretch that 7-game winning streak to 8 when we lost to Carolina. I seem to recall several "Kubiak cannot win without Wade..." posts. Remember those??

I was commenting on the made up scenario and making up such scenarios to "prove" something. I thought that was clear.

[cbs1507]

Originally Posted by SuperSerial

Yes you are comparing Kubiak to BB.

I am not comparing anyone to anything. I don't know how you decided I was comparing anything. I was just commenting on your comment.

All I am saying is there are several Kubiak homers out there who blindly defend Kub's mediocre start by telling the world about BB's first six years to compare with Kub's first 6, as if that means Kubiak is somehow on the road to greatness. In other words, "Just keep dealing with this guy because if BB can suck and then be great, so can Kub".

My comment was simple. When you try to defend Kub with the BB comparison, don't conveniently forget to talk about the hundreds of coaches who may have had bad or mediocre starts as well, and later never amounted to anything. You are singling out one coach who was successful later in his career to compare Kub to. In that sense, you are twisting what the "jury" gets to hear, and are trying to mind screw them into getting the verdict you want. That is twisting the facts like a slick defense lawyer.

No big deal. That type of smoke and mirrors is expected from the Kool Aid Krowd.

Dude you cannot compare 17 years to 6 years. I thought I made that clear. Was Belichick a great coach after 6 years? NO. If you cannot see the parallel I cannot help you. There are plenty of coaches that have early success but cannot sustain it. Those coaches don't last very long. Look at the situations in KC, TB and even the NY Jets. Most great coaches had to go through a learning curve (regardless of early success or not) and Belichick (and many others) was not exempt from it. It's that simple. Is Kubiak a great coach? IDK. Only time will tell. But he's not as bad as many people try to make him out to be.

[steelbtexan]

Gary should thank god everyday that Manning got hurt and Bum helped Wade get the DC job.

How many games did Gary win without Wade this yr?

Gary is Gary a quality OC. Wade is Wade a quality DC. Together they make a great combo.

This yr hopefully Gary makes the offensive draft picks and Wade makes the defensive draft picks. While Rick is locked in the bathroom for 3 days.

[BetaV1]

I remember last season when I said Sean Payton without Gregg Williams was akin to Gary Kubiak without a decent defensive coordinator (in this case, Wade.) I got mocked for it, or said how it was a "bad comparison." Looks like history once again showed the truth.

I hope Gary is the coach for a long, long time. The downside is that the guy clearly needs to have someone else pick his defensive hires, but there is no mistaken Gary's offensive genius. Can you say that we don't make the effort each year to fix any problems from the previous year? One year we can't run the ball, we fix that. The next we can't convert on third downs, we fix that. The next we can't finish games, we fix that. Some will argue that a great head coach will rarely make those mistakes. No. Because if that same coach continues to make that one same mistake, then that's far from great. A great head coach learns from his mistakes. I say Gary does that.

Others have pointed out, and sorry if I can't recall names here, that Gary keeps his guys in line. That is another great quality that the great head coaches have. The NFL now-a-days is a league where coaches last maybe an average of three seasons and patience has been thrown out the window thanks to guys like the Harbaughs, Rex Ryan, and Ken Whisenhunt coming in and going far in the blink of an eye.

Now we're seeing what happens though when things get rocky with these guys. Rex Ryan's first "down" year, in what happens to be his third year, and suddenly you're hearing all kinds of locker room turmoil. The Texans have had far gloomier times under Kubiak than the Jets have had under Rex's 8-8 season this year, yet not once have we seen any of these Texan players throwing one another under the bus or going to the media to stir the pot. Kubiak has the actual respect of his players, as opposed to the false respect many other coaches in the league have (if we're winning, everything is okay). Not many coaches in this league have that kind of influence. Kubiak does.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by BetaV1

Now we're seeing what happens though when things get rocky with these guys. Rex Ryan's first "down" year, in what happens to be his third year, and suddenly you're hearing all kinds of locker room turmoil. The Texans have had far gloomier times under Kubiak than the Jets have had under Rex's 8-8 season this year, yet not once have we seen any of these Texan players throwing one another under the bus or going to the media to stir the pot. Kubiak has the actual respect of his players, as opposed to the false respect many other coaches in the league have (if we're winning, everything is okay). Not many coaches in this league have that kind of influence. Kubiak does.

In 2006, there were several rumors.... players in it for the check... David Carr not putting in the work.. Dunta also had his time in the media that year..... then there was the franchise Dunta year....

It hasn't all been peaches & cream in the Texans locker room under Kubiak.

[Rey]

The difference between rex anbd kubiak are the expectations and past success. When you get one game away from the superbowl twice and then fail to make the play offs you are going to have guys getting angry. Whereas the texans have mostly been like wide eyed kids.

[wildroot]

In BB's 7th year he won the SB....

[BetaV1]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

In 2006, there were several rumors.... players in it for the check... David Carr not putting in the work.. Dunta also had his time in the media that year..... then there was the franchise Dunta year....

Granted, not being in the area, I've probably missed some things, so I'm sure you're correct. It did spur me to research a bit into Robinson's comments of Carr and you were most certainly right here. (Although I should point that in the same article, Robinson spoke extremely highly of Kubiak. but I digress.)

The thing is that when a team has as many emotionally draining seasons as the Kubiak-era Texans have, you'd figure the coach would lose the locker room at some point, especially after the 6-10 2010 season. I think you'd agree that Kubiak and his players maintaining a positive environment overall is something not many coaches can draw from their players.

Originally Posted by Rey

The difference between rex anbd kubiak are the expectations and past success. When you get one game away from the superbowl twice and then fail to make the play offs you are going to have guys getting angry. Whereas the texans have mostly been like wide eyed kids.

Wait, so Kubiak's expectations are inherently lower than Rex's? And I'd agree with you about the Texans being "wide eyed kids" if this were the third year into the Kubiak era, but it's not. This is year six. SIX. It took four years to get a record above mediocrity. It took six years for Gary's team to make the playoffs. I'd be inclined to say players should be more angry with five years of nothing than one year of 8-8 after two AFC Championship appearances.

Meanwhile, a lot of other coaches on losing teams lost their locker rooms long before one year, such as Eric Mangini in Cleveland and Josh McDaniels in Denver. Todd Haley lost his even when the team was on their way to a division title just last year. The players have to respect you, and gaining the respect of these guys isn't as easy as people probably think it is.

[Texan_Bill]

Meh, Kubiak sucks and it's time to cut bait.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by BetaV1

Wait, so Kubiak's expectations are inherently lower than Rex's? And I'd agree with you about the Texans being "wide eyed kids" if this were the third year into the Kubiak era, but it's not. This is year six. SIX. It took four years to get a record above mediocrity. It took six years for Gary's team to make the playoffs. I'd be inclined to say players should be more angry with five years of nothing than one year of 8-8 after two AFC Championship appearances.

Meanwhile, a lot of other coaches on losing teams lost their locker rooms long before one year, such as Eric Mangini in Cleveland and Josh McDaniels in Denver. Todd Haley lost his even when the team was on their way to a division title just last year. The players have to respect you, and gaining the respect of these guys isn't as easy as people probably think it is.

Mangini and McDaniels had both experienced some success before their teams went awry. McDaniels got off to a rocky start with the players from the beggining but he had a pretty good start on the playing field.

It's just a fact that the New York Jets had higher expectations heading into this season and previous seasons than the Houston Texans did. If you want to call that inherent...so be it...

[welsh texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

Mangini and McDaniels had both experienced some success before their teams went awry. McDaniels got off to a rocky start from the beggining.

It's just a fact that the New York Jets had higher expectations heading into this season and previous seasons than the Houston Texans did. If you want to call that inherent...so be it...

Got to feel that McDaniels ego was a bigger factor than his ability to coach in his time. Lots of decisions were made in that time that make you wonder what the hell he was thinking.