How do you feel about Kubiak?

[cbs1507]

Originally Posted by wildroot

Duane Brown.

Well he said offensive skill player. So I thought that meant someone who handles the rock.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by wildroot

Jim Harbaugh took a perenial loser team (at least for the last 6 or 7 years) and turned it into a NFC Title contending team in ONE year....and that would be a year without a TC, a new system etc...he should get all the credit for making the pieces work. Dudes an incredible coach.

Seems like no matter with which team one tries to compare us to after a coaching change, be it N.O. when Peyton took over, the Jets when Ryan took over or SF when Harbough took over for some reason the response is always that Kubiak had it way tougher. No one would have looked at the SF team last year and seen a NFC championship contending team. Only now that it's come to pass do some people say that the talent was there all of the time. Yeah, we all knew Alex Smith stood shoulder to shoulder with Brady, Drew and Eli all this time right?

That's because it's true.

How many of the players that were here when Kubiak came in in 2006 are still here? Only Andre Johnson. Just one guy worth keeping out of the 53 man roster Kubiak inherited.

How much of the personnel did Payton (Peyton is the QB) have to turn over? Rex Ryan? Jim Harbaugh came into the best situation of all. I can't think of anyone Harbaugh had to replace.

Now I do give Harbaugh credit making better use of the strengths of that team and for teaching Alex Smith the tricks to being a smarter QB. Hell, maybe that's all 'Frisco needed... a smarter offensive.

But to say Kubiak and the other coaches came into equivalent situations and therefore the turnarounds should have taken the same short amount of time is not doing one's homework.

Kinda like those talking heads who assumed that the Niners had no talent and were doomed to the cellar again. They didn't look close enough.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

That's because it's true.

How many of the players that were here when Kubiak came in in 2006 are still here? .

I always hear this, but I'm not sure what it means.

Those guys aren't here because kubiak wanted it that way. Kubiak didn't make it happen with the guys he had so he turned the roster.

I'm not saying the roster was super talented, but he didn't elevate their level of play much. And 2006 was 6 years ago. How many teams have a large number of their players from 6 years ago?

Kubiak could have been fired after last year and very few would have felt it was unjust.

Regardless of how hard he had it, the guy has gotten six years. He should thank god McNair is who he is.

I like kubiak a lot, but I'm still very skeptical of him as a headcoach. I want a superbowl. Can kubiak get us there. I hope so.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Rey

I always hear this, but I'm not sure what it means.

Those guys aren't here because kubiak wanted it that way. Kubiak didn't make it happen with the guys he had so he turned the roster.

I'm not saying the roster was super talented, but he didn't elevate their level of play much. And 2006 was 6 years ago. How many teams have a large number of their players from 6 years ago?

Kubiak could have been fired after last year and very few would have felt it was unjust.

Regardless of how hard he had it, the guy has gotten six years. He should thank god McNair is who he is.

I like kubiak a lot, but I'm still very skeptical of him as a headcoach. I want a superbowl. Can kubiak get us there. I hope so.

Then we're of similar mindset. Because that's exactly where I am. If Kubiak had gotten fired after backsliding to 6-10, I would not have been surprised. And he still does things in his gameplan I don't agree with. Like not using Tate more during the course of the game to make sure Foster had fresher legs down the stretch.... just to name one thing...

I think we're all hoping Team Wary takes us to a Super Bowl or two before it's all said and done.

[LongTimeLurker]

i want him as long as wade can be DC

[eriadoc]

When a good poker player rakes a pot and gets ahead of the curve, he starts to bully the table. He uses his stack size to dominate the table to the point where it isn't even about the cards in his hand anymore. A bad poker player will win a big hand and then sit on his stack. The good poker player can burn out on an all-in, but it's not as likely as that bad poker player's stack slowly dwindling away, which is a certainty.

You decide which poker player Kubiak is.

[Dread-Head]

I was looking for "Meh..."

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

When a good poker player rakes a pot and gets ahead of the curve, he starts to bully the table. He uses his stack size to dominate the table to the point where it isn't even about the cards in his hand anymore. A bad poker player will win a big hand and then sit on his stack. The good poker player can burn out on an all-in, but it's not as likely as that bad poker player's stack slowly dwindling away, which is a certainty.

You decide which poker player Kubiak is.

I don't think we can tell from what we've seen. It's a totally different game.

I also don't think the chances are greater that the bad poker player's stack will dwindle before the good poker player gets burned on an all-in.

Unless you're saying most of the poker players on WSOP are bad players.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I don't think we can tell from what we've seen. It's a totally different game.

I also don't think the chances are greater that the bad poker player's stack will dwindle before the good poker player gets burned on an all-in.

Unless you're saying most of the poker players on WSOP are bad players.

Then you haven't spent any significant time at a poker table. The WSOP has nothing to do with it.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I don't think we can tell from what we've seen. It's a totally different game.

I also don't think the chances are greater that the bad poker player's stack will dwindle before the good poker player gets burned on an all-in.

Unless you're saying most of the poker players on WSOP are bad players.

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Then you haven't spent any significant time at a poker table. The WSOP has nothing to do with it.

Given time the bad player will end at zero. The all in burn by a pro so long as he has the bankroll will win out in the long run. The reason is the good player isnt just going to go all in on bs and given enough run time the math should work in the favor of those who know the odds

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by 2012Champs

Given time the bad player will end at zero. The all in burn by a pro so long as he has the bankroll will win out in the long run. The reason is the good player isnt just going to go all in on bs and given enough run time the math should work in the favor of those who know the odds

Yep. Anyway, the point of the analogy wasn't to get all in depth about poker play. It's just to say that the best players in the world play aggressively. There's nothing you hate more than watching a good player take a guppy's chip stack, because you know he's going to use it all night long against the rest of the table. If the guppy gets lucky and wins a big hand, you're pretty happy, because that means you have an easier route to the player's chips he lucked off on. Kubiak turtles up and sits on his pile way too frequently and predictably.

When he sits down at the table of coaches, he has a hard time finding the sucker.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Yep. Anyway, the point of the analogy wasn't to get all in depth about poker play. It's just to say that the best players in the world play aggressively. There's nothing you hate more than watching a good player take a guppy's chip stack, because you know he's going to use it all night long against the rest of the table. If the guppy gets lucky and wins a big hand, you're pretty happy, because that means you have an easier route to the player's chips he lucked off on. Kubiak turtles up and sits on his pile way too frequently and predictably.

When he sits down at the table of coaches, he has a hard time finding the sucker.

Now that the season has passed I was more interested in the poker chat

[welsh texan]

Originally Posted by cbs1507

Well he said offensive skill player. So I thought that meant someone who handles the rock.

Yep, thats what I said, Duane Brown was a good pick and clearly shows good coaching, but wasn't a skill player, Ben Tate looks like a good pickup where we took him but at the same time he wasn't the top pick.

Kubiak has shown me that he's got caught up in taking the player with the highest ceiling in the first round before, and that has burned us because it doesn't take much account of his likelyhood of reaching that ceiling. Amobi Okoye? If Kubes goes out and takes a WR who, like JJ, who might be good in 5 years time if he changes his entire game, I'll be extremely disappointed in him.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Kubiak turtles up and sits on his pile way too frequently and predictably.

This gets repeated all the time.

But he goes all half-back pass on us in Jacksonville & we call him an idi0t.

He's got Schaub airing it out to start overtime against the Ravens

He has Tj Yates throwing bombs despite Ed Reed bricking two possible INTs..

yeah, he turtles up all right.

I've said it before, I don't know so much about Kubiak being "conservative" hell, he needs Dennison to remind him to keep running the ball.

But so far, everytime he's tried to put the gas on the floor, Steve Slaton fumbles at the Goal line, or Chris Brown fumbles at the goal line, or Ryan Moats fumbles on the 1, or Schaub throws the ball directly at the defending player, or Andre kicks a ball off his knee, or Quin bats the ball into a WRs hands or some wild off the wall Rosencopter **** happens.

To me, this is akin to the "pro" not going all-in on some BS hand.


But that's just me. (By the way, I'm one of the guys who has yet to forgive Kubiak for the 2010 season).

[welsh texan]

Welcome to the TexansTalk Poker Analogy Society!

[GP]

The play calling in the last two Texans possessions of the Ravens game bummed me out. It reeked of hurried desperation, when it should have been methodical and varied.

Ravens were giving up lots of shallow to intermediate stuff, playing their safeties deep and basically giving ground if we'd have taken advantage of it. We could have gained 10 yards every play. THEN you hit the double move or slant and go after you get to about their 30...Ravens would have tightened up and would have begun looking to stop the shallow stuff.

So for me, I scratch my head on where Kubiak's prowess went to on those last two possessions. Maybe he got tired and the fatigue of all they've dealt with just set in..."Ah to hell with it, just go deep to Andre, OK TJ? Sling it deep and let 'er rip." Those two possessions didn't look like the Kubiak I know.

If Kubiak brain farts on his offense personnel in draft, free agency, and current players...we're going to have a rough time. This is a guy who cut Hartmann and then fortunately brought him back after he realized what a mistake he made. This is a guy who also forces Jacoby Jones upon Marciano. Look, Kubiak is making that sort of personnel decision. It wasn't Marciano who cut Hartmann and it isn't Marciano deciding to leave Jacoby in as PR after botching a punt that led to the Ravens first TD. Kubiak has to make smart personnel moves. Period.

Can he do it? Or will he over-think it and try to be cute?

Kubiak has his team's loyalty. Beyond that, I'm a little shaky on some of the things he's known for doing year in and year out. How he handles the QB situation will be instrumental to our ( and his) success. He has to find more dynamic receiving threats too. And he has to keep his o-line strong and dominant again in 2012. He has a lot of work to do.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by GP

The play calling in the last two Texans possessions of the Ravens game bummed me out. It reeked of hurried desperation, when it should have been methodical and varied.

Ravens were giving up lots of shallow to intermediate stuff, playing their safeties deep and basically giving ground if we'd have taken advantage of it. We could have gained 10 yards every play. THEN you hit the double move or slant and go after you get to about their 30...Ravens would have tightened up and would have begun looking to stop the shallow stuff.

So for me, I scratch my head on where Kubiak's prowess went to on those last two possessions. Maybe he got tired and the fatigue of all they've dealt with just set in..."Ah to hell with it, just go deep to Andre, OK TJ? Sling it deep and let 'er rip." Those two possessions didn't look like the Kubiak I know.

If Kubiak brain farts on his offense personnel in draft, free agency, and current players...we're going to have a rough time. This is a guy who cut Hartmann and then fortunately brought him back after he realized what a mistake he made. This is a guy who also forces Jacoby Jones upon Marciano. Look, Kubiak is making that sort of personnel decision. It wasn't Marciano who cut Hartmann and it isn't Marciano deciding to leave Jacoby in as PR after botching a punt that led to the Ravens first TD. Kubiak has to make smart personnel moves. Period.

Can he do it? Or will he over-think it and try to be cute?

Kubiak has his team's loyalty. Beyond that, I'm a little shaky on some of the things he's known for doing year in and year out. How he handles the QB situation will be instrumental to our ( and his) success. He has to find more dynamic receiving threats too. And he has to keep his o-line strong and dominant again in 2012. He has a lot of work to do.

I think overall his playcalling is good...Sometimes the execution isn't quite right...but his offenses produce.


I used to be a big Kubiak guy, but as strange as this sounds....I think that this year made me lose more faith in him as a head coach...

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by GP

The play calling in the last two Texans possessions of the Ravens game bummed me out. It reeked of hurried desperation, when it should have been methodical and varied.

Even though this flies in the face of the "turtling up" accusations, I agree 100%

We got the ball with 2:52 left in the game, on our 28, with three time outs plus the 2 minute warning.

1-10-HOU 28 (2:44)
13-T.Yates pass deep left to 80-A.Johnson to HOU 46 for 18 yards (29-Ca.Williams).

1-10-HOU 46 (2:17)
(No Huddle, Shotgun) 13-T.Yates pass short middle to 80-A.Johnson to BAL 38 for 16 yards (20-E.Reed).

Two-Minute Warning

1-10-BAL 38 (2:00) (Shotgun) 13-T.Yates pass deep right intended for 80-A.Johnson INTERCEPTED by 20-E.Reed at BAL 4. 20-E.Reed to BAL 4 for no gain (80-A.Johnson). Ed Reed's 8th career interception of post-season.

I was shocked, I was surprised. I thought with that kind of time, we'd small ball them to death. A little screen, an outside zone, we could have done anything we wanted. I was thrilled that Tj got the ball to Andre. I was not expecting the throws.... big throws. But I figured it would definitely open up the ground game.

Of course, I was a little knee-jerked when I saw the INT... "HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!!!" then I heard Kubiak explain it the next day. Said they were looking for one safety, man coverage on Andre. If that's what he saw, Tj was supposed to get the ball to Andre before the safety got there.

I rewatched it & sure enough Tj hesitated. Had he pulled the trigger earlier, it's plausible that we could have got the ball to Andre. It was a good call, just not executed to perfection.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Rey

I think overall his playcalling is good...Sometimes the execution isn't quite right...but his offenses produce.


I used to be a big Kubiak guy, but as strange as this sounds....I think that this year made me lose more faith in him as a head coach...

I'm neutral.

He had a bit of an embarrassing moment this time last year when McNair had lunch with Bum Phillips and then Wade gets whisked into the d-coord chair. I mean, that was a HUGE slap to the face of Kubiak that McNair had to relieve him of that duty.

Next, Kubiak's gotta' play nice and hope that Wade works wonders with the defense AND that he (Kubiak) steadies the course for the offense. It has to be a perfect storm in 2011 for Kubiak to remain in good graces with everyone.

Throw in the injuries we had, which would have sunk any of the other 31 teams. I mean it. Would the Saints stand a chance with their 3rd string QB, no Will Smith, and many other key players gone from the lineup for 3 weeks or more at a time? I don't think so. Therefore, I think Kubiak's locker room standing with his guys is what got us the AFC South title and into round 2 of the playoffs.

I really think the Ravens game was the final straw for us. It was the ceiling that existed due to a long, long road of obstacles. What's terrible, IMO, is that had we beat the Ravens that day...and I don't think I'm being a homer here...I think we beat the Patriots and we're in the Super Bowl. But all in all, the ceiling was there and we couldn't bust through it. It gives all of them something to work for in 2012. They know this. They know it to their core.

Kubiak made Marvin Lewis look like Kubiak used to look before this season. IN the two playoff games, Kubiak made decisions on when to challenge and when NOT to challenge that he's never been able to do properly in the past. I think he raised his game. But he lost it in those last two possessions, IMO.

I wonder what 2012 brings? Hopefully fewer significant injuries and more of what we saw in 2011. Good time to be a Texans fan, for sure.

[HJam72]

Originally Posted by GP

The play calling in the last two Texans possessions of the Ravens game bummed me out. It reeked of hurried desperation, when it should have been methodical and varied.

Ravens were giving up lots of shallow to intermediate stuff, playing their safeties deep and basically giving ground if we'd have taken advantage of it. We could have gained 10 yards every play. THEN you hit the double move or slant and go after you get to about their 30...Ravens would have tightened up and would have begun looking to stop the shallow stuff.

So for me, I scratch my head on where Kubiak's prowess went to on those last two possessions. Maybe he got tired and the fatigue of all they've dealt with just set in..."Ah to hell with it, just go deep to Andre, OK TJ? Sling it deep and let 'er rip." Those two possessions didn't look like the Kubiak I know.

If Kubiak brain farts on his offense personnel in draft, free agency, and current players...we're going to have a rough time. This is a guy who cut Hartmann and then fortunately brought him back after he realized what a mistake he made. This is a guy who also forces Jacoby Jones upon Marciano. Look, Kubiak is making that sort of personnel decision. It wasn't Marciano who cut Hartmann and it isn't Marciano deciding to leave Jacoby in as PR after botching a punt that led to the Ravens first TD. Kubiak has to make smart personnel moves. Period.

Can he do it? Or will he over-think it and try to be cute?

Kubiak has his team's loyalty. Beyond that, I'm a little shaky on some of the things he's known for doing year in and year out. How he handles the QB situation will be instrumental to our ( and his) success. He has to find more dynamic receiving threats too. And he has to keep his o-line strong and dominant again in 2012. He has a lot of work to do.

On at least one of those slings, A.J. was supposed to be the decoy, but Reed faked out Yates and managed to recover extremely well when it looked to Yates like he couldn't. The pass is generally designed to go up the middle for about 20 yards (or so) to (I believe) Walter, but Yates took the bait and slung it to a A.J. By the time it got there, he was very-well covered. Point being Kubiak didn't call that play intending for the bomb that was thrown for A.J. Ed Reed is a master.