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View Poll Results: Which one?
Jacoby Jones 13 12.50%
Baltimore's defense 15 14.42%
Home field advantage 0 0%
Lack of secondary receiving options 10 9.62%
Rookie inexperience 66 63.46%
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Old 01-19-2012   #61
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
I do not agree with this. Did you see that deep out he threw? That had mustard on it for sure. I agree more with the idea that it's his indecision that keeps him from firing it in there.

That is probably from being over coached as others have suggested. "Too many cooks spoil the broth" even though we all know it was all done with the best of intentions.

I did not see this mentioned anywhere, but did you see near the end of the game the camera shot of Delhomme sitting on the bench as if to suggest it was time to give Yates the hook, or to ponder why Kubiak was not going to the vet to see what he could do in the final minutes?

With all that said... Let it be known that I too like mustard on my balls.
I think you have a valid point about potential 'over-coaching'.

I think of his first game when Leinart went down, off the bench, and he runs a two minute drill for a FG.

Then the next two games, Falcons & Bengals, and he wins them at the end with great drives, one to clinch the AFCS. He just seemed like a natural in these games, and he was facing solid defenses.

At this point, maybe he became surrounded by voices. Kubiak, Dennison, and Greg Knapp (QB coach), then Schaub, Leinart, Delholmme, & Garcia, all giving him insight and wisdom and things to clutter his brain about footwork and reading defenses and checking down and looking for the blitz and and and and...

Just speculation on my part, of course. But, Yates did seem to play a lot tighter against the Panthers and Colts, like he was trying to think about everything he did on the field before he did it, instead of just following his instincts, even though they are rookie instincts.

None of us can really know how much or how little these voices contributed to anything, but it's certainly within the realm of possibilities to take into account. I'm sure it was a lot coming at him when he lacked the preparation provided by an off-season and being on the active roster for the first 3/4ths of a season.
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Old 01-19-2012   #62
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I think you have a valid point about potential 'over-coaching'.

I think of his first game when Leinart went down, off the bench, and he runs a two minute drill for a FG.

Then the next two games, Falcons & Bengals, and he wins them at the end with great drives, one to clinch the AFCS. He just seemed like a natural in these games, and he was facing solid defenses.

At this point, maybe he became surrounded by voices. Kubiak, Dennison, and Greg Knapp (QB coach), then Schaub, Leinart, Delholmme, & Garcia, all giving him insight and wisdom and things to clutter his brain about footwork and reading defenses and checking down and looking for the blitz and and and and...

Just speculation on my part, of course. But, Yates did seem to play a lot tighter against the Panthers and Colts, like he was trying to think about everything he did on the field before he did it, instead of just following his instincts, even though they are rookie instincts.

None of us can really know how much or how little these voices contributed to anything, but it's certainly within the realm of possibilities to take into account. I'm sure it was a lot coming at him when he lacked the preparation provided by an off-season and being on the active roster for the first 3/4ths of a season.
I didn't see the game, so I could be completely wrong, but the box score seems to indicate that Yates was pretty good against the Colts???

Above 100 QB rating...Only did not complete 3 passes...no picks (I think)...
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Old 01-19-2012   #63
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I didn't see the game, so I could be completely wrong, but the box score seems to indicate that Yates was pretty good against the Colts???

Above 100 QB rating...Only did not complete 3 passes...no picks (I think)...
Lots of check-downs and short yardage dump offs. Sort of reminded me of David Carr's game, and this was not what he was doing against the Falcons and Bengals.

High completion percentage against the Colts, but only got 132 yards. He seemed very tentative, iirc. Almost like his reigns were pulled in, but that's just my fan impression. Not sure what was going on, since the organization is always tight-lipped about these things.
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Old 01-19-2012   #64
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
I do not agree with this. Did you see that deep out he threw? That had mustard on it for sure. I agree more with the idea that it's his indecision that keeps him from firing it in there.
It isn't about having the ability it is about using it. The term floater was being repeatedly used where we watched the game and with good reason.
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Old 01-19-2012   #65
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Lots of check-downs and short yardage dump offs. Sort of reminded me of David Carr's game, and this was not what he was doing against the Falcons and Bengals.

High completion percentage against the Colts, but only got 132 yards. He seemed very tentative, iirc. Almost like his reigns were pulled in, but that's just my fan impression. Not sure what was going on, since the organization is always tight-lipped about these things.
I don't think the situations and the coverage allowed Yates to go deep much in that game.

He attempted only 16 passes but was hurried 3 times (official nfl stats).
He was sacked 4 times on top of that.
The Texans were backed up close to their own end zone (twice in the first half - I just went back and took a quick look of the first half.)

The Colts were in cover 2, taking away the receiver that runs the deep route.
Those are some of the things that I saw (in the first half.)
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Old 01-19-2012   #66
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I don't think the situations and the coverage allowed Yates to go deep much in that game.

He attempted only 16 passes but was hurried 3 times (official nfl stats).
He was sacked 4 times on top of that.
The Texans were backed up close to their own end zone (twice in the first half - I just went back and took a quick look of the first half.)

The Colts were in cover 2, taking away the receiver that runs the deep route.
Those are some of the things that I saw (in the first half.)
Thanks for your thoughts, man. Obviously it's been a little while since that game, which I have honestly just tried to forget after it was over, so that was just my initial memory on it.

Do you recall if they took any shots downfield? And did he seem like the same QB as he was against the Falcons and Bengals to you?

The whole team seemed like they were in a funk against the Panthers and Colts, so not trying to make TJ a scapegoat for those losses.
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Old 01-19-2012   #67
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

Since Yates got wins in his first few games people seemed to have had high expectations or thought he was better than he really was. Fact is TJ didnt lead the offense in a way in which we would score like we normally do. TJ also had many almost, should have or called back ints that seem to go unnoticed imo. Balt could have easily had 5-6 picks instead of 3, in the Cinn game there were 1-2 that should have been picked, Atlanta his pick 6 was called back because of a play on the other side of the field totally unrelated to his int. Fact is he is a rookie and he is no Matt Schaub. Schaub's 2011 ppg average wins us 2 out of our last 3 games and would have put us 2-0 in the playoffs
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Old 01-19-2012   #68
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Last year Schaub threw two picks against the Ravens. One was just a terrible throw because it resulted in the game being lost. They have a good defense.

Acting like Yates is somehow behind the curve because he struggled at times against them is silly.

Schaub took four sacks and turned the ball over earlier this year against them.

Obviously Schaub is and would have been the better option, but Yates should get better. How much better is really not something we can put a crystal ball on.


Yates actually struggled through his starts. He had the great fortune of having a great D helping him
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Old 01-19-2012   #69
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by TexanFan881 View Post
Kubiak, quite frankly, put way to much trust in him, and if he would have practiced with the mindset of Yates just game managing, we could have won.
I think there is a lot of truth to this. I think Kubiak took the chains off a little prematurely.

Prior to the game, I can understand thinking the kid was going to have to make things happen. But, when we got to the second half & we "knew" our defense had Flacco & Rice in check, it should have been back to "conservative Yates"

I'll have to watch it again, maybe that is what happened, because I do remember most of the throws to start the third qtr were to a wide open Aj, then he hit OD.... & KDub....

The Ravens' D did step it up the second half & we didn't score a single point. So maybe it was 4:00 left in the game & Kubiak went back to letting Yates own the game.

I don't know.
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Old 01-19-2012   #70
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Thanks for your thoughts, man. Obviously it's been a little while since that game, which I have honestly just tried to forget after it was over, so that was just my initial memory on it.

Do you recall if they took any shots downfield? And did he seem like the same QB as he was against the Falcons and Bengals to you?

The whole team seemed like they were in a funk against the Panthers and Colts, so not trying to make TJ a scapegoat for those losses.
Oh, I know you're very level-headed; you're good in my book.

As far as the Colts game, I think it was also a case of the Colts being too proud to let us come to their house and make them look even worse.
They played hard.

Overall, for the season (including this game and the playoffs) I believe that Yates is ahead of the curve.

I've noted in at least another thread that Dalton also made many "questionable" throws during the season (especially early on) where it could have resulted in INTs.

From what I saw (and this include Leinart and Schaub), going long is not what the WCO is designed to achieve.

Even so, I don't think that Yates (or Leinart) is lacking on this end.
For Leinart, the sample size is too small, so I won't bother to discuss it.
I just want to mention that (when I include the Pre-season); where the QB is going with the ball also depends on the play call and whether the coverage decides to keep the ball in front of the defenders by playing deep safety(ies).

I was checking around (I think it was week 15 or so) and I found a website that tracks deep throws by QBs.
They track all throws longer than 15 yards as deep passes (which corresponds to the nfl.com website) and I found some interesting numbers.

They have it updated it for the year when I just checked a few minutes ago.
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

Here are some interesting numbers regarding the percentage of "deep" pass attempts by some QBs:

Brady 18.1%
Brees 17.6
Schaub 21.6
Yates 21.7
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Old 01-20-2012   #71
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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I don't see this at all. Yates has a stronger arm that Schaub and he can and has fit the ball into tighter windows than Schaub.
In the regular season it was apparent, however once the play offs started, he was definitely putting more air under the ball than it needed on the deeper routes, maybe that's how they practiced it, to let the receivers run up under it, I dont know.

That pass to Walter on the sideline, I know I've seen him throw farther, he underthrew it allowing Reed to sneak in & intercept it.

Had he thrown it deep, over KDubs head at least he would have been able to fight Reed for it. Luckily Reed didn't have his stick'um at the time.
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Old 01-20-2012   #72
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Since Yates got wins in his first few games people seemed to have had high expectations or thought he was better than he really was. Fact is TJ didnt lead the offense in a way in which we would score like we normally do. TJ also had many almost, should have or called back ints that seem to go unnoticed imo. Balt could have easily had 5-6 picks instead of 3, in the Cinn game there were 1-2 that should have been picked, Atlanta his pick 6 was called back because of a play on the other side of the field totally unrelated to his int. Fact is he is a rookie and he is no Matt Schaub. Schaub's 2011 ppg average wins us 2 out of our last 3 games and would have put us 2-0 in the playoffs
Good observations. Folks forget those picks that should have been because the defense dropped them or that were called back due to penalties. And even with his much younger legs and better mobility he still managed to nearly match the number of sacks in 5-1/2 games (15) that Schaub had in 10 (16). Now unless the O-line mysteriously got worse, that's another sign Yates needs seasoning.

The Ravens would have never sat back in coverage on Schaub the way they did with Yates. They knew the kid would be fooled by their coverages and that he couldn't disguise where he really intended to go with the ball as a vet like Schaub could. So they just sat back, read his eyes, and jumped routes repeatedly.

The kid has some potential but it's still just potential at this point.

What happened to him? Nothing that shouldn't have happened to a rook going against a veteran defense. He was outfoxed.
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Old 01-20-2012   #73
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

How about playcalling? Why call a deep bomb to Andre with over a minute and two timeouts left?

But yeah, no other weapons + rookie inexperience falling into a comfort zone with one guy = Ed Reed.
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Old 01-20-2012   #74
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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How about playcalling? Why call a deep bomb to Andre with over a minute and two timeouts left?

But yeah, no other weapons + rookie inexperience falling into a comfort zone with one guy = Ed Reed.


Yates had other options other than Dre. I think what happend is that Yates went check down happy in the last few games of the year. Every bootleg to the right that he ran 4-8 times a game he ended up throwing to whatever receiver was rollout out that way with him 1-3 yards away. Yates never looked downfield even though people were open at times. Then in the Ravens game he decided before the game that he and Dre were going to have a big day. You cant talk about not having other weapons because that just silly. Schaub's ppg didnt fall off the face of the earth when dre went out and Im sure Matt wasnt catching any passes.
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Old 01-20-2012   #75
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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Good observations. Folks forget those picks that should have been because the defense dropped them or that were called back due to penalties. And even with his much younger legs and better mobility he still managed to nearly match the number of sacks in 5-1/2 games (15) that Schaub had in 10 (16). Now unless the O-line mysteriously got worse, that's another sign Yates needs seasoning.

The Ravens would have never sat back in coverage on Schaub the way they did with Yates. They knew the kid would be fooled by their coverages and that he couldn't disguise where he really intended to go with the ball as a vet like Schaub could. So they just sat back, read his eyes, and jumped routes repeatedly.

The kid has some potential but it's still just potential at this point.

What happened to him? Nothing that shouldn't have happened to a rook going against a veteran defense. He was outfoxed.


You are right about his mobility. Everyone was slobbering on his ability to scramble and his pocket awareness after he made a couple good runs and won a couple games. Then what happend? We did face some challanges on the o line late however the kid stopped running at all and was taking on sacks left and right.
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Old 01-20-2012   #76
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Default Re: What happened to Yates?

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How about playcalling? Why call a deep bomb to Andre with over a minute and two timeouts left?

But yeah, no other weapons + rookie inexperience falling into a comfort zone with one guy = Ed Reed.
That was a curiosity of mine, as well, because it looked like all receivers were on go routes. It seemed like an all or nothing approach instead of just trying to march down the field on short possession passes and working a two minute drill. Yates is capable of running an offense quickly. He did it against the Bengals to win the game and off the bench against the Jaguars when Leinart went down.

I wish we could see video of the "all 22", where we could study coverage and routes, because the tv is very limiting when trying to really analyze and break down plays.
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