Pay Foster now.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by amazing80

Thats all fine and dandy for now, but how you gonna sign Schaub, Brown, Cushing and Watt long term? None of the contracts you are willing to sign will come off the books PRIOR to these guys hitting free agency, and you assuming Smith and Ryans will re-do their deals is far fetched, Ryans paid for dirt cheap before getting his large deal, doubt he gives it up and Smith left AZ for more money, why would he give some up? And that was AFTER they went to the super bowl and they were considered contenders.....


We are finally out of cap hell and making moves like you suggest would put us right back in it.....sometimes youre going to lose GREAT players, its not about Mario, its about the Texans and were fine without him on the field and were MUCH better cap wise without him

The cap will go up in 2013, I'm going to sign Watt, Cushing, & Brown with that money.

Antonio Smith stuck it to us if you ask me. Never once has he come close to a double digit sack year. With the number of snaps he's played (relatively healthy) that should not be the case. If Antonio thinks he's going to test FA again & get a sweet deal like he got from us, he's mistaken. I'm not asking him to take less money, only take it in the form of a signing bonus so we can drop his cap number & make it less likely that we'll cut him. Demeco, same thing however I'd be willing to extend Demeco's contract to make sure he finishes his career as a Houston Texans.

Cap hell, is paying Gary Walker for something he can not do. Or Amobi Okoye or Dan Orlovsky or Steve Slaton or David Anderson... those 4 players are going to cost us $8M according to that article I posted.

I understand you have to let good players go sometimes. I do not agree that you have to let a player like Mario go because of market value.

We've got salary cap issues because we pay people like David Anderson & Jacoby Jones over $1M/yr....... Antonio Smith $8M/yr.... Matt Schuab $9M/yr..... Dan Orlovsky $3M/yr.... Sage Rosenfelds $3M/yr... Mario Williams $18M/yr

It's not because we're paying Andre Johnson $9M/yr or Mario Williams $10M/yr

[amazing80]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

The cap will go up in 2013, I'm going to sign Watt, Cushing, & Brown with that money.

Antonio Smith stuck it to us if you ask me. Never once has he come close to a double digit sack year. With the number of snaps he's played (relatively healthy) that should not be the case. If Antonio thinks he's going to test FA again & get a sweet deal like he got from us, he's mistaken. I'm not asking him to take less money, only take it in the form of a signing bonus so we can drop his cap number & make it less likely that we'll cut him. Demeco, same thing however I'd be willing to extend Demeco's contract to make sure he finishes his career as a Houston Texans.

Cap hell, is paying Gary Walker for something he can not do. Or Amobi Okoye or Dan Orlovsky or Steve Slaton or David Anderson... those 4 players are going to cost us $8M according to that article I posted.

I understand you have to let good players go sometimes. I do not agree that you have to let a player like Mario go because of market value.

We've got salary cap issues because we pay people like David Anderson & Jacoby Jones over $1M/yr....... Antonio Smith $8M/yr.... Matt Schuab $9M/yr..... Dan Orlovsky $3M/yr.... Sage Rosenfelds $3M/yr... Mario Williams $18M/yr

It's not because we're paying Andre Johnson $9M/yr or Mario Williams $10M/yr

Youre making a lot of work for me

2. Cap stands at $120.375 million: The salary cap is $120.375 million, but each team has the option of using a $3 million exemption this year on a signed player to free up some room. Next year, teams will have the option of designating three player exemptions at $1.5 million each. These are used to transition into a salary cap that decreased from $128 million in 2009. There is also a mandatory cash minimum payroll for each team at 89 percent of the cap, which translates into $107.1 million per team.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/67...football-terms


This means we have a 3 M flex THIS season, but next year will have 4.5 TOTAL extra, you're gonna sign those guys with that little amount?

And I can sit here and argue that Smith is a better player than Mario but it seems that all you care about when talking Mario is POTENTIAL and measurements, not play making skills or the ability to make a stop when it counts....

We're not gonna cut Ryans or Smith and create MAJOR needs because you and a few others want to over pay Mario....WON'T HAPPEN.

You're complaining about paying a top 10 arguably top 5 qb 9 M a year? And saying that JJ isn't worth 1 million is ignorant. You can hate him for what he did and his ability to not do a lot when AJ is out, but seriously 1 million is not that much when talking about 120 M cap for a position as a wide out and a guy who is versatile enough to return kicks. Replacing him is one thing, complaining about a small salary like that is dumb

And again you're paying AJ 9 million now, but in a few seasons it balloons to 13 million, then what will you do? Same with Mario, its not gonna be 10 throughout, itll be 10 now then in 4 years maybe be 14 million....you cannot continue to have BIG contracts escalate and be able to afford the quality filler you need around that talent

Not to mention if Barwin continues to be great he will demand a massive contract and he has proven more than Mario in his short stint here.....Mario, sorry bud, its time to move on

Plus you have a top 5 LT coming off books soon, a top 5 center in FA now, a top 3 RB in FA now, a top ILB in a few years, a top rush olb soon, a stud NT who will want a new deal in 3 seasons.....THIS all plays a role in the ability to sign Mario now, plus you're expecting to draft a guy in the draft who will be expected to be a top wide out, you're gonna need to pay him in 4 years as well....think ahead man

[ckhouston]

Originally Posted by amazing80

And I can sit here and argue that Smith is a better player than Mario

You're complaining about paying a top 10 arguably top 5 qb 9 M a year?

Mario > Smith

Schaub < at least 12 other QB's, and that number will increase once Luck and RGIII hit the league. He isn't anywhere close to top 5.

[amazing80]

Originally Posted by ckhouston

Mario > Smith

Schaub < at least 12 other QB's, and that number will increase once Luck and RGIII hit the league. He isn't anywhere close to top 5.

Yup the guy who is top 10 in single season yards with one good wr isn't top 10 currently playing....

[amazing80]

And I won't argue Smith vs Mario because most will just point to sacks which IMO is foolish.....itd be an uphill battle for me and im not willing to do it

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by amazing80

This means we have a 3 M flex THIS season, but next year will have 4.5 TOTAL extra, you're gonna sign those guys with that little amount?

No, because of the new TV contracts that go into affect in 2013, NFL revenues will increase...... the salary cap will increase. I've seen some say it will go up to $130M, I've heard some say as high as $180M, I'm betting it will be somewhere in between.

Originally Posted by amazing80

And I can sit here and argue that Smith is a better player than Mario but it seems that all you care about when talking Mario is POTENTIAL and measurements, not play making skills or the ability to make a stop when it counts....

This is pure hate. Sacks, pressures, hits, tackles.... Mario just eclipse's Antonio Smith. Antonio may beat him in "effort" & a cool Ninja celebration..... but that's about it.

Originally Posted by amazing80

We're not gonna cut Ryans or Smith and create MAJOR needs because you and a few others want to over pay Mario....WON'T HAPPEN.

I'm not suggesting we cut either..... I'm also not suggesting we over pay Mario, I'm 100% against over paying Mario Williams.

Originally Posted by amazing80

You're complaining about paying a top 10 arguably top 5 qb 9 M a year? And saying that JJ isn't worth 1 million is ignorant. You can hate him for what he did and his ability to not do a lot when AJ is out, but seriously 1 million is not that much when talking about 120 M cap for a position as a wide out and a guy who is versatile enough to return kicks. Replacing him is one thing, complaining about a small salary like that is dumb

Ignorant is thinking we paid Jj $1M, he got a $755K salary plus a $1.5M bonus. & I love Jj, check the avatar.

But #3 WRs shouldn't cost us more than the league minimum for a 5 year vet $880K

& I said paying more than $1M for DA & Jj, which is what we did. But you're right, I'm more upset about paying KDub $5M/yr

Originally Posted by amazing80

And again you're paying AJ 9 million now, but in a few seasons it balloons to 13 million, then what will you do? Same with Mario, its not gonna be 10 throughout, itll be 10 now then in 4 years maybe be 14 million....you cannot continue to have BIG contracts escalate and be able to afford the quality filler you need around that talent

I've got no problem paying franchise players their fair market value. I understand their contracts will escalate..... imo when their yrly salary/cap number gets too high, you extend them, work out new deals, or cut them if they are no longer worth that number. That's why I favor signing bonuses. I understand the argument against.

Originally Posted by amazing80

Not to mention if Barwin continues to be great he will demand a massive contract and he has proven more than Mario in his short stint here.....Mario, sorry bud, its time to move on

More hate. I'd like to see how Barwin would have done the last 5 years, without Jj Watt, Brooks Reed, Mario, Manning, Jjo, & Quin.

If we were to offer either Mario or Barwin to any of the bottom 5 pass rushing teams which one do you think they'll want?

Originally Posted by amazing80

Plus you have a top 5 LT coming off books soon, a top 5 center in FA now, a top 3 RB in FA now, a top ILB in a few years, a top rush olb soon, a stud NT who will want a new deal in 3 seasons.....THIS all plays a role in the ability to sign Mario now, plus you're expecting to draft a guy in the draft who will be expected to be a top wide out, you're gonna need to pay him in 4 years as well....think ahead man

You're absolutely 100% right, if the salary cap was going to stay anywhere near $120M. However, it should/will increase substantially after the 2012 season. So while you are correct & the F.O. should be looking long term, 2012 is the only season that poses a potential problem.

[amazing80]

well I will tell you this, if its gonna increase 60% then you sign Mario and back load the **** out of it

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by amazing80

well I will tell you this, if its gonna increase 60% then you sign Mario and back load the **** out of it

Exactly

[The Medic01]

Isn't this the first year in a while that teams have had to make tough salary cap decisions. And if new TV deals are signed in 2013 the cap will increase a lot and it will be another 5-10 years before teams have to make more tough decisions. Just franchise Foster then when the cap increases sign him a long term deal. Back load Marios contract and some of our other guys and when the cap increases next year when we have a lot of major FA's it won't be hard as this year.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by The Medic01

And if new TV deals are signed in 2013 the cap will increase a lot....

I was under the impression they are already signed. The revenue doesn't kick in until 2013.

[amazing80]

Here is a a brilliant poster on another site I frequent

He is more articulate than me and puts everything I am saying into a better post.....enjoy

New TV deals kick in for the 2014 season. The 60% figure is where rights fees will be at the conclusion of the new deals which is in 2022. Average increase per season is 6%-7%. It's not like the entire amount will get passed on to the players who get around 48% of all revenue so an annual increase of 3%-4% of the cap is more realistic and that's IF all the other revenue sources escalate at that clip which is questionable as stadium revenues are actually becoming a challenge with more reasons than ever to stay home and watch games, declining naming rights deals, stadium advertising, luxury boxes, etc.

Yes, the cap will take a bit of a jump in 2014, but if you think that alone solves the Mario situation, you are dreaming. There is still a cap on salary escalation at 30%, so you can't just push everything off to 2014. The only real option in resigning Mario is going to be to put almost the entire salary into a signing bonus so it can be spread out over 5 years and at the $50 million he will likely command as a STARTING point, that is still $10 million in prorated bonus per season plus whatever salary we put behind it which will still be several million per season and max escalation. Forgive me if I'm just not understanding why we would want to pin ourselves against whatever cap is out there for the next 5 years for a player who simply didn't win many games for us in his first 6 years here, has been effected by injury 4 of his 6 years, and played in a defense that was one of the 3 best in the league without him last year.

Sure, if money were no object, I'd love to have him here, but in a cap world it is a major object and I think the Texans showed McNair that winning is what will ultimately matter, not jersey sales for a player who's reputation has always far exceeded his on field play. Ultimately, we got it right in letting Atlanta pay a ridiculous sum for a vastly overrated Dunta, and I'm all for letting KC or Tampa try to gain instant attention for swinging big with Mario, while we maintain the approach that had us make a playoff run with impact draft picks and strategic free agent signings like Antonio and Johnathan Joseph.

Sure, having Barwin, Reed, and Mario all rushing the passer on 3rd down along with Antonio and JJ would be scary, but to me it's a bit like the Panthers resigning DeAngelo Williams for $42 million last year when they still had so many holes on defense (that got worse in letting Richard Marshall walk) and had a guy like Jonathan Stewart waiting in the wings. Maybe Stewart and a 2nd/3rd round RB aren't as good as Williams/Stewart, but they would have the freedom this year to go out and get someone like Dwayne Bowe and Finnegan which adds up to more than a RB on a rotation. Fact is, I consider Mario as a pass rushing specialist who should rotate with Reed depending on the situation as Reed is already vastly superior in run support and coverage which could have been badly exposed last year with more tape on Barwin/Williams' limitations. If teams are running for 5-6 yards on first downs or dumping off to RBs in the flats, we don't even get to those 3rd and long situations where Mario is supposed to earn that $50 mil bonus. If I'm matching up against a team like Baltimore or Cinn (or Tenn, Jacks), give me Brooks Reed all day.

The litmus test for me is if we would consider signing Mario if he were someone else's free agent this offseason and that answer is absolutely not. I can point to 2 or 3 games where a CB/S or WR would have made a difference for us even with TJ at QB, yet don't see a game where having Mario out there last year would have made a difference just like 2010 when we won without him. Looking forward, the possible losses of Myers, Foster, D. Brown, Barwin, Schaub, Cushing, A. Smith far outweigh not having Mario here which is mainly lost upside. Not that I want this, but going out and signing a guy like Vincent Jackson for half of what Mario will get would barely make it past "wouldn't it be nice" stage, while adding a pass rusher for $50 million+ guaranteed to a top 3 defense on a young team up against the cap wouldn't get past "and monkey's may fly out of my butt" stage.

[Rey]

What did Reed do in pass covereage last year? And Brooks Reed is not better against the run than Mario.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by amazing80

Here is a a brilliant poster on another site I frequent

He is more articulate than me and puts everything I am saying into a better post.....enjoy

Eloquent indeed. However, he also brings more information to the conversation which bears consideration....

Yes, I was under the impression that the cap would jump in 2013, a 6-7% yearly increase makes more sense. I also expected 2013 to be the year, but everything I've read says the current contract runs through the 2013 season, so 2014 does make more sense.

However, I stand by my basic premise. Wade Phillips wants Mario. Rick Smith's job is to make it happen without hurting the long term position of the team. Maybe I don't have a clue as to how he can do that, like I said, glad I'm not Rick Smith.

I do not advocate over paying for Mario. $42M guaranteed over 3 years is where I say the top is (Peppers contract). $14M/yr avg is the tops (for me) (Peppers). & do what you gotta do to get his cap number to ~$10M for the 2012 (& now, the 2013) season.

That's not unreasonable. If that's not rich enough for him, I understand. No hard feelings against Mario, no hard feelings against Rick Smith (unless we don't replace him through the draft), no hard feelings against Bob McNair.

It's just business.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

What did Reed do in pass covereage last year? And Brooks Reed is not better against the run than Mario.

I definitely did not agree with his "friends" take on Mario's play. It's a moot point if you ask me. Hater's gonna hate.

If Wade Phillips wants Mario Williams, that's all I need to know about Mario's play.

& everytime you hear Wade drool about passing downs, it's Barwin, Jj, Mario, & Brooks.... not that high effort guy who can't finish.

[Ryan]

What's up with the recent string of ignorant new posters?

[PapaL]

Originally Posted by Ryan

What's up with the recent string of ignorant new posters?

Team Success = New Trolls

[amazing80]

Originally Posted by Ryan

What's up with the recent string of ignorant new posters?

Who is this in reference to?

[RunTexans]

Do you see him holding out? Thoughts?

[2slik4u]

Originally Posted by RunTexans

Do you see him holding out? Thoughts?

sources?

[Señor Stan]

Originally Posted by 2slik4u

sources?

http://houston.sbnation.com/2012/2/2...-tag-by-texans

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...franchise-tag/