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Old 06-19-2004   #21
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That was off HoustonProFootball.com's profile. Copied and pasted as the draft unfolded so that's understandable. I guess they meant that he was drafted as a RB but is being converted to a FS (they have both positions in that copy n paste). They have changed it a bit since I copied it however (just looked). I never noticed it though. Thanks.
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Old 06-19-2004   #22
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I don't think it was the Texans intension to draft Wand to be "the LT". Perhaps their hope, but not their expectation. If they had that kind of confidence in his potential, they wouldn't have waited until the 3rd round
to take him. After all, they gave up 3 picks to move all the way into the
1st round this year to draft another project. Cass is not bashful 'bout betting the farm on his hunches.
As for Pitts, even though he apparently does not have the quickness, agility to be a top-notch LT, he's been the most productive 2nd round pick they've made so far - Gaffney has been a bit of a disappointment and last years 2s (including Hollings - another one of Cass's hunches), are too banged up to
make a contribution.
By the way, Gross will be doing a very good job again this year - playing LT.
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Old 06-19-2004   #23
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Sure they would have. Teams pick Tackles late and develop them all the time. Look up some history. Why draft Gross when Pitts does a good job? That is a bit redundant. Pitts played fine last year and can do it again if need be. He is our best lineman.

Hollings and Gaffney dissapointments? Not to me. Hollings wasn't supposed to play last year and Gaffney needs to have the ball thrown to him to catch it. Carr has been a bigger dissapointment to me than them so far.
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Old 06-19-2004   #24
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Let me try to make my point again - Cass is a plunger, a gambler. He tends
to overcompensate for his players in his efforts to secure their services. What
they gave Todd Wade (10 M signing bonus), was until now unheard of for right tackle. The picks they gave up this year for Babin is
a real head scratcher - I think. Had we not traded up for Babin, we could have had Travis LaBoy (a player very comparable to Babin) and Randy Starks
and a 3rd player with our 4th pick. But Cass heard steps and made the deal
with the Titans. He would have taken Wand way before waiting for him to
fall to him in the third round if he really thought he, realistically, was going to
be our long term LT.
But Pitts was a decent selection, though they seem to think he's only an interim answer for LT. I don't know 'bout Gaff - got my doubs. Hollings -
he only played 4 games as an RB. I bet he hasn't a clue 'bout how to block or catch a pass ? I hope I'm wrong, but second round picks don't grow on trees.
But this is the year for Carr to show his stuff - he's got more to prove than
the franchise in general. Leftwich may leap frog him as the fair haired boy in
the AFC South.
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Old 06-19-2004   #25
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The Texans didn't give up any more for Wade than say Jon Runyon received from the Eagles (relative to the time frame) when they pursued him for their RT a few years back. We had a glaring hole at RT and it is now resolved. Risk? Hardly. Some say the Eagles over-paid Runyon but I don't think the Eagles regretted that move one bit and "unheard of" is an overstatement. They have been a dominant team ever since. Having a journeyman RT and being 4-12 and 5-11 isn't a huge coincidence. Games are won and lost at the LOS.

For Babin we gave up a net of ONE first day pick and some second day selections. Not too bad if he is the edge rusher we have never had since year one. I don't see how moving up to the 27th pick and giving up 103 and 93rd overall as displacement as too much net cost unless you think that more marginal players is what we needed instead of a key starter at a key position. Most people considered LaBoy a reach and he is not going to be a full time starter in TN and doesn't have Babin's run stopping abilities (supposedly) so he will likely only be a situational pass-rusher for Tennessee. Babin is already a starter in our defense. Laboy would be another project, and last I checked, we have tons of them already at linebacker. Starks? His knock is being immature and he didn't grade out that high last year, hence the free fall to the third round.

Hollings was a back in High school so its not like he is a lumberjack turned running back. Its a bit early to say what he is or isn't at this point.

And yeah, Carr will likely do better, but that is not what we are debating now is it? You were talking about being dissapointed. So far, for the first overall, he is my big one to date. To each his own. You have your opinion, I have mine. Its not a bad thing, but I am known to take on anything I disagree with. Call it a trend if you will but heck, that's the part I enjoy about message boards.
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Old 06-19-2004   #26
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Many people decried the Babin trade when it happened. Especially because we traded with the Titans (tetons?) .. I say ; let's wait and see. If Babin has a season like D. Freeney of Indy; we should be celebrating ( in the playoffs, hehe) Who knows if and when Laboy, Starks, and Schoebel can replace Kearse and R Smith. They're rookies and they won't all panned out.IMO.Haynesworth? Pickett? Seems some want instant gratification.
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Old 06-19-2004   #27
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Alot of you people want to give the Texans a certain type of offense, either a run first O or a pass first O. This is where most of the arguments get started. I dont think we will be either, the way the offense is panning out I think we will be a really balanced offense running early in games and setting up play-action pass and alowing Carr to get easier passes down field. We will have a very balanced offense. And alot of people arent talking about the affect DD will have on our pass game. He can catch the ball out of the backfield with the best of them.We will most likely start Billy Miller, to tell you the truth, I would start Joppru over Bruener for the fact that he can make plays down field. I think that Bruener will come in on obviouse run downs and in some two TE situations, say it is 3rd and inches, hes coming in the D already knows youre going to run no point in trying to hide it. Miller is a great pass catcher and will more than likely be the starter come regular season.



"The Texans spent so much money on RBs because they want to run first", NO, this is because after year 1 that was our biggest weakness, our passing game wasnt even that bad other than the sacks. We drafted DD as a returner and a 3rd down back, we signed Mack because we had no good RBs and we gave a 2nd rounder for Hollings because we needed a young back to groom for the future, plus Mack was just slow, they were not trying to buile the ultimate run offense.


"If McGahee didnt get hurt would he be a Texan" I think so. You say that people dont take RBs high any more, thats not true, Willis was projected as a high first rounder. Only one WR was picked before the top 2 RBs in 2002. In 2001 LaDanian Thomlinson was taken before any WR. In 2000 Jamal Lewis was taken #5 only one WR taken before him and another RB was taken at #7.And in '99 Edgerin James and Ricky Williams were taken before Torry Holt. This years draft didnt have any unbeleivable RBs. Jackson was projected as a Mid first rounder, not high. Clarret was projected as a hig first rounder after his freshman year, if he hadnt messed up and gotten kicked out of college hed probably be a top 5 draft pick next year. Someone said that we would have taken AJ because they wouldnt have passed up a chance to get a physical fast WR. NO, they knew Roy Williams was comeing out next year, probably Reggie Williams, dont even let me have to say Larry. AJ was the BPA thats why we drafted him.


And we didnt sign Bruener to help Wand, first of all we got him because he was one of the best blocking TEs, he will help the run game but he cant helpa a LT by standing next to him, and 2 because traditionally TEs line up on the right.
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Old 06-19-2004   #28
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"Babin is already a starter on defense" - that's not a serious statement is it -
everybody is in T-shirts, nobody has hit anybody yet - he got the assignment
gratis Cass & Capers 'cause they exchanged 3 picks (2,3,4 picks), and if he
doesn't work out C & C are gonna look like dumb azzs who are squandering
corp. resources. He's being handed every possible opportunity to succeed.
"If Babin has a season like D. Freeney of Indy", or if Babin is another LT,
or if Babin is the second coming of the Christ child, or if "if & buts were candy & nuts - oh what a Merry Christmas !"
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Old 06-19-2004   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
By the way, Gross will be doing a very good job again this year - playing LT.
I think you've got to be a fool to say we should have tried to get Gross instead of AJ.
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Old 06-19-2004   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
"Babin is already a starter on defense" - that's not a serious statement is it -
everybody is in T-shirts, nobody has hit anybody yet - he got the assignment
gratis Cass & Capers 'cause they exchanged 3 picks (2,3,4 picks), and if he
doesn't work out C & C are gonna look like dumb azzs who are squandering
corp. resources. He's being handed every possible opportunity to succeed.
"If Babin has a season like D. Freeney of Indy", or if Babin is another LT,
or if Babin is the second coming of the Christ child, or if "if & buts were candy & nuts - oh what a Merry Christmas !"
Hey , nu.... Are you really that much of a sour puss? Guess you are so down on Babin ; if he doesn't work out, we will see " I told you so" posts. Or " Fire Charley Casserly" posts. Sorry, I prefer to be supportive and positive. Let's just agree to disagree. Go Texans!
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Old 06-20-2004   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
Let me try to make my point again - Cass is a plunger, a gambler. He tends
to overcompensate for his players in his efforts to secure their services. What
they gave Todd Wade (10 M signing bonus), was until now unheard of for right tackle. The picks they gave up this year for Babin is
a real head scratcher - I think. Had we not traded up for Babin, we could have had Travis LaBoy (a player very comparable to Babin) and Randy Starks
and a 3rd player with our 4th pick. But Cass heard steps and made the deal
with the Titans. He would have taken Wand way before waiting for him to
fall to him in the third round if he really thought he, realistically, was going to
be our long term LT.
But Pitts was a decent selection, though they seem to think he's only an interim answer for LT. I don't know 'bout Gaff - got my doubs. Hollings -
he only played 4 games as an RB. I bet he hasn't a clue 'bout how to block or catch a pass ? I hope I'm wrong, but second round picks don't grow on trees.
But this is the year for Carr to show his stuff - he's got more to prove than
the franchise in general. Leftwich may leap frog him as the fair haired boy in
the AFC South.

What do you mean he would have jumped on Wand earlier, no he wouldnt have, he knew what Wand was worth and he knew he was going to be there in the 3rd. Plus why would you use a 2nd round pick on a project LT anyway? Then you have to know that the 3rd round really isnt that late in the draft, its a 1st day pick, its not like he was a 4th or 5th rounder he did go high in the 3rd.
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Old 06-20-2004   #32
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I'm not down on Babin - actually I'm more intrigued with him than any player
we have ever selected. But he is, to be sure, a big time project. He not only
didn't he play major league competition in college, but he will be playing a radically different position. We aren't talking 'bout switching from guard to
tackle or safety to corner, rather we are talking 'bout going from a DL position to playing upright as a LB. Oh maybe he played some backer in college, but he was basically and for the majority of the time a DL rushing from a 3 point stance. Apparently Suggs made this transition smoothly last
year as a rookie for the Ravens - lets hope it goes as well for Babin and the
Texans.
By the way, I subscribe to the Larry Bird philosphy that (A) says we should be able to talk openly & candidly 'bout Sports & Race (B) recognizes the economic significance that in the NFL (like the NBA), the brunt of the racial
makeup of the fan base is white (economically and numerically), therefor it
would be economically relavant if key players(like QBs & elite edge pass rushers) are white (or not white). So this is a very clumsy segway to my question, but does anybody know what Babin's ethnic/racial background is: Lebonese (or other Mid Eastern), Bro, Italian or Greek, just a real swarthy
European-American ? My apologies to all the hyper sensitive PC types on the
board, but I'm really curious. And if you think this makes me a bit of a racist,
well so be it. Anyway, Larry Bird is not bad company to be with.
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Old 06-20-2004   #33
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Quote:
He... didn't play major league competition in college
I guess Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Virginia Tech and Virginia isn't major league?
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Old 06-20-2004   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
I'm not down on Babin - actually I'm more intrigued with him than any player
we have ever selected. But he is, to be sure, a big time project. He not only
didn't he play major league competition in college, but he will be playing a radically different position. We aren't talking 'bout switching from guard to
tackle or safety to corner, rather we are talking 'bout going from a DL position to playing upright as a LB...
Here's a link to Babin's bio at Western Michigan. BTW, they do play Division IA at Western Michigan. In 3 career starts vs. Big 10 schools (Michigan, Michigan St., Purdue), Babin averaged 7 tackles, 3.3 TFL, and 2 sacks. Not too bad for a "project". All rookies are projects, more or less. And the transition from pass rushing DE to pass rushing OLB has to be one of the most overrated. If Capers uses Babin in a similar fashion to how he deployed Kevin Greene in Carolina, Jason will be rushing the passer and getting penetration into the backfield on most plays, anyway. Like all rookies, the biggest adjustment for Babin will be the speed of the game.

Will there come a day when sports and society's racial issues become separated? I've never, ever cared about the ethnic background of an athlete I've watched perform. Just whether or not he had game. Isn't the game enjoyable enough? Watch the strategy, the emotion, the artistry...yeah artistry. Passing, receiving, running, blocking, tackling...brutal yes, but art just the same. Why would someone want to bring in baggage to a spectacle such as this? I don't get it.
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Old 06-20-2004   #35
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"All rookies are projects, more or less. And the transition from pass rushing DE to pass rushing OLB has to be one of the most overrated."
You're football knowledge is apparently confined to watching games from the
prone position of a comfortable sofa on weekends, because the project is not for a DL to learn to pass rush from the upright position - rather it's learning how to cover pass receivers. See, you probably slept thru the video presentation of NFL 101, but pass coverage is a foreign concept to defensive
linemen.
And football is physically demanding, can be exausting - sometimes even very painful, but not brutal. Irag - now that's brutality.
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Old 06-20-2004   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
"All rookies are projects, more or less. And the transition from pass rushing DE to pass rushing OLB has to be one of the most overrated."
You're football knowledge is apparently confined to watching games from the
prone position of a comfortable sofa on weekends, because the project is not for a DL to learn to pass rush from the upright position - rather it's learning how to cover pass receivers. See, you probably slept thru the video presentation of NFL 101, but pass coverage is a foreign concept to defensive
linemen.
And football is physically demanding, can be exausting - sometimes even very painful, but not brutal. Irag - now that's brutality.
By the way in a 3-4 scheme the OLBs main purpose is to supply a pass rush and get to the QB so Lucky was right, yes they do cover but I have a think that DC is smart enough to know which LB to put in zone coverage and which one to blitz. Babins main concern this year will be the pass rush and he will learn to cover as he progresses in the defense.
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Old 06-20-2004   #37
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Continuing with our football discussion, here's an excellent article on the
3-4 featuring some comments by some real experts on the subject. If you've
already seen the article, my apologies for the repeat material. It's relavant.
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/templ...ontent_id=2360
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Old 06-20-2004   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
"...the project is not for a DL to learn to pass rush from the upright position - rather it's learning how to cover pass receivers...
What I was attempting to say was that Babin's pass coverage requirements would be limited because he would be rushing upfield on most pass plays. I didn't get my point across, I guess I'm in a slump. My bad. Hey, it's the offseason, I'm allowed to be off my game (what I have, anyway). Catch me again come training camp and see if I can't do you proud.
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Old 06-20-2004   #39
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Good story on the 3-4 via the link nunusguy, thanks.
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Old 06-21-2004   #40
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John Mobley is a Pro Bowler, and he went to Kutztown.....KUTZTOWN!!!!!
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