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Old 01-10-2012   #41
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Originally Posted by DerekLee1 View Post
Misdirection and fakes, sure. Gimmick plays? No way. Let your players do what they do best at their positions.
No, you do what you have to do so you can play next week... If what our players do best still has them down 14/7 and it isn't looking good, you throw stubborness and straight-up football out the window for a play and try to take a chunk out...no doubt...
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Old 01-10-2012   #42
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Too soon. Don't pull the trigger on that until the time is right. Wait a few more seasons just to be on the safe side....
...says the guy who's always complaining about how kubiak gets too cute and outsmarts himself
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Old 01-10-2012   #43
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

The more I think about it the less I think this team needs its own "Stagger Lee" moment.
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Old 01-10-2012   #44
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

carolina did it to us

IMO to beat elite teams u musht have some luck and tricky

NEw orleans did it to indy in the SB for god shakes
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Old 01-10-2012   #45
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

Nice try, John Harbaugh.
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Old 01-10-2012   #46
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.

The only way I think this play would work is if you had a bunched formation, almost a goal line look...you'd have to draw in the LBs and the DBs close to the line at pre-snap. Toss the ball to James Casey and hope your WRs and TEs can get separation enough, due to the defense being crowded up at the LOS, that your receivers can get into space and catch a pass.

To me, the play would be designed to hit either AJ with all other receivers running routes to open space for AJ to find a mismatch out there, or you find a way to get Foster to be ACROSS THE FIELD and out in space. Or even Yates, who can run pretty well for a QB.

Frankly though, I would rather us just use normal plays and forget the trick plays altogether. I hate the idea of us using a trick play and it backfiring on us badly. We've come to far to let a failed trick play be our demise in some form or fashion. Trick plays are fun when you're a kid on the playground.
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Old 01-10-2012   #47
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.

The only way I think this play would work is if you had a bunched formation, almost a goal line look...you'd have to draw in the LBs and the DBs close to the line at pre-snap. Toss the ball to James Casey and hope your WRs and TEs can get separation enough, due to the defense being crowded up at the LOS, that your receivers can get into space and catch a pass.

To me, the play would be designed to hit either AJ with all other receivers running routes to open space for AJ to find a mismatch out there, or you find a way to get Foster to be ACROSS THE FIELD and out in space. Or even Yates, who can run pretty well for a QB.

Frankly though, I would rather us just use normal plays and forget the trick plays altogether. I hate the idea of us using a trick play and it backfiring on us badly. We've come to far to let a failed trick play be our demise in some form or fashion. Trick plays are fun when you're a kid on the playground.
I could see the Statue of Liberty being effective with Arian Foster back there.

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Old 01-10-2012   #48
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by NitroGSXR View Post
I could see the Statue of Liberty being effective with Arian Foster back there.

OK, now you reminded me of when the Boise State team (Zabransky at QB and Ian Johnson at RB, IIRC) used the Statue of Liberty play against the Sooners a few season ago in a bowl game down in Arizona.

THAT was a beautiful trick play. Carried out 100% perfectly.

I wouldn't mind seeing us try the play Carolina used against us, actually.

See what you've gone and done to me?!?! Now I'm liking the idea of using a trick play.

I've been tricked into liking trick plays. LOL.
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Old 01-11-2012   #49
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

link to the play?
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Old 01-11-2012   #50
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by ThaJokaa View Post
link to the play?
Statue of Liberty play is HERE at this link. The first play of the clip is a hook-and-lateral play the Broncos used against the Sooners to score the TD. Boise State then used the Statue of Liberty play to get the 2-point conversion. My friends who are Sooner grads were sooooo embarrassed that they lost like this. LOL.
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Old 01-11-2012   #51
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.

The only way I think this play would work is if you had a bunched formation, almost a goal line look...you'd have to draw in the LBs and the DBs close to the line at pre-snap. Toss the ball to James Casey and hope your WRs and TEs can get separation enough, due to the defense being crowded up at the LOS, that your receivers can get into space and catch a pass.

To me, the play would be designed to hit either AJ with all other receivers running routes to open space for AJ to find a mismatch out there, or you find a way to get Foster to be ACROSS THE FIELD and out in space. Or even Yates, who can run pretty well for a QB.

Frankly though, I would rather us just use normal plays and forget the trick plays altogether. I hate the idea of us using a trick play and it backfiring on us badly. We've come to far to let a failed trick play be our demise in some form or fashion. Trick plays are fun when you're a kid on the playground.
Ha, tell that to the Carolina Panthers who made the Texans defense look like a bunch of kids on a playground as they were stomping a mud hole in them and walking it dry then made them look like idiots with the "Annexation of Puerto Rico"....

or Shaun Peyton going for an onside kick right after the half against the Colts in the Super Bowl...

or the Tennessee Titans in the "Music City Miracle" Wade Phillips could tell you all about that....







but then there is the "Chris Brown Debacle of 2009" to support your "risk vs reward" theory...
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Old 01-11-2012   #52
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

Didn't we try a trick play last year with fullback Leach throwing a perfect interception in the redzone. I can't remember the team and it might have been two years ago but the pass was just awful.
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Old 01-11-2012   #53
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by RTP2110 View Post
Ok, I know itís way out of Kubiakís character, but thatís exactly why Baltimore would never see it coming. I kinda think weíre going to need some kind of out of the ordinary play to pull out this win. (Kick return, defensive TD, etc.)

Last week Kubiak ran a play that started with an empty backfield and Casey out in the slot. Casey motioned into the backfield and the play was a toss sweep to him. Now that the play is on film, what if we ran the same thing and let him take the pitch out to Andreís side. Andre will momentarily run block, then release up field hopefully wide open for a TD. If itís not there, then Casey simply gets what he can on the ground.
I do think we'll need to play "out of the ordinary" (Offence) to win this, but I think Kick returns will be difficult as everyone knows JJones is way better punt returner then WideR...

I think they will be prepared to put extra effort in those situations
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Old 01-11-2012   #54
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Didn't we try a trick play last year with fullback Leach throwing a perfect interception in the redzone. I can't remember the team and it might have been two years ago but the pass was just awful.
I think that was Chris Brown, not Leach, but yes... that was awful.
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Old 01-11-2012   #55
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.

The only way I think this play would work is if you had a bunched formation, almost a goal line look...you'd have to draw in the LBs and the DBs close to the line at pre-snap. Toss the ball to James Casey and hope your WRs and TEs can get separation enough, due to the defense being crowded up at the LOS, that your receivers can get into space and catch a pass.

To me, the play would be designed to hit either AJ with all other receivers running routes to open space for AJ to find a mismatch out there, or you find a way to get Foster to be ACROSS THE FIELD and out in space. Or even Yates, who can run pretty well for a QB.

Frankly though, I would rather us just use normal plays and forget the trick plays altogether. I hate the idea of us using a trick play and it backfiring on us badly. We've come to far to let a failed trick play be our demise in some form or fashion. Trick plays are fun when you're a kid on the playground.

I understand what you concerned about, but I don't think the potential for disaster is a great as your saying. Just to use the original post as an example, if you run Casey out on a toss sweep he has a run/pass option. If nothing is there he could just tuck his head and run. If it's really bad, and he's under duress, he just throws it our of bounds. So there are a few built in safeguards that can prevent disaster from happening.

I also don't think it's a waste of a down if you run a trick play in the right situation. If it's 14-10 in the 4th quarter, then no way should you even think about it. Just stick to the gameplan. But what if its 14-3, and your offense has done nothing all day? It could be worth a chance. Maybe you find yourself in a 2nd & 1 situation which would be a great opportunity. All that being said, and knowing Kubiak, it will probably never happen. Just fun to talk about nonetheless.
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Old 01-11-2012   #56
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

I don't mind "trick" plays...

No one was complaining when LT was throwing TD's with the chargers...

A lot of football is about catching your opponent off guard...Yeah, there are times when you say "everyone knows what we are going to do, now stop it"....

But in order to be successful, as a play caller, you have to find a good balance and know when to gamble and when to just play it straight...

There is a lot that goes into play calling and I don't get mad unless something is just obviously stupid. I didn't get mad when Chris Brown threw that INT against Jacksonville because the idea was good, but the execution was poor...

But doing something "tricky" every now and then keeps your opponents on their toes and it doesn't let them key in on exactly what you're doing. That is the point. They have to play everything honestly and can't cheat up, or cheat back, or cheat over...Hell, our offense is basically set up that way with the bootlegs...It's just another way of keeping the defense honest...
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Old 01-11-2012   #57
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I despise gimmick plays. Waste of a down, has the potential to blow up in your face, and then your team loses heart and the opponent gets a surge of momentum.

The risk outweighs the reward, IMO.
You could say the same thing about going for it on 4th and short in certain situations where you don't have to...

Yes there is some risk involved, but that's where play callers/HC's make their money....

I'm not saying that we MUST do it, but I think that the occasional wrinkle is ok.
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Old 01-11-2012   #58
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
well in that case why dont we have Dre throw it to foster or cushing throw it to JJ


I was thinking we could have Foster running towards the tackle, then pitch it out to Casey like the option.
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Old 01-11-2012   #59
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

In reply to those who have replied to me...

The old "If there's nothing there he could just throw it away" theory sounds good, but I don't trust a guy under pressure to think very clearly...I expect him to think he can make a play out of it, which will get a bad result. When you're under fire, and you've practiced the play over and over in only a few days leading up to the game...you begin to think it's up to YOU to make it happen, even in the heat of the moment when logic says to you, "Don't do it," your heart and passion for the play to succeed says, "You CAN do it. Trust that it's there. Throw it."

The comment from rey, IIRC, about how going for it on 4th and 1 and how that's similar to the risk of using a trick play...I don't agree. On a 4th and 1, you're doing what you've done since middle school football: Trying to pound away and get that 1 yard. You've practiced and performed lots of 3rd and 1, 2nd and 1, and even 4th and 1. You've likely never practiced AND performed trick plays as much as you have a 1-yard situation. The two scenarios are wildly different.

Lastly, the comments about The Music City Miracle and the Saints going for onside kick vs. Colts in Super Bowl. Those were two plays born out of sheer necessity (Ok, the Saints onside kick is arguable...but they were needing to get that score, not pulling an onside kick to get a 21-point lead on the Colts). The topic at hand, here, is about using a trick play in mid-stream of a game. Why do it? I don't get it. Just run your normal playbook and toss the trickery away for a more prudent time.

All in all, the replies are weak sauce. Trick plays out of nowhere, in the middle of a game to try and surprise your opponent, just boggle my mind.
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Old 01-11-2012   #60
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Default Re: Would you Let Casey Throw One This Week?

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Originally Posted by speedfreek View Post
If we have to do something like that, then the game is already out of hand..

TJ
Not necessarily. The Steelers did it in SB XL to break open a tight game. (see below)
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Why stop here, lets pick Chris Brown back up from wherever he is and let him run the play for us.
Okay, now you're just being silly.
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Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
Id rather TJ throw a handful of 40+ yard attempts into double/triple coverage to AJ vs this idea
So you'd rather throw into the strength of the defense several times than take one chance like this per game. Help me find the logic in that...
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Originally Posted by DerekLee1 View Post
Misdirection and fakes, sure. Gimmick plays? No way. Let your players do what they do best at their positions.
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Agreed. If the play works I'll call it genius, if it doesn't then I'll be angry and calling for Kubiak's head. So goes the life of a sports fan
At least you're up front about it. I can respect that.
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