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Old 01-10-2012   #41
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I fully understand the desire to to pay Arian the big bucks.

I just wish that I had more confidence that he would stay inspired to continue to play at a high level after getting the big bucks.

There is a certain running back that plays for the Titans that gives me pause.
It's a valid concern, but that goes for any player that you sign to a big contract, not just RBs.

I think Kubiak & Smith will have to evaluate Foster's personality as it relates to long term dedication in order to try to figure that one out.

As a fan, I can easily say pay the man. He's a proven commodity, and my own take is that his undrafted status will always be a motivating factor in his drive to be the best RB that he can be. Plus, this team is filled with high character guys, and that has a tendency to elevate the mentality of everyone.

Arian said in an interview that Andre Johnson had taken him under his wing to mentor him during his rookie season. I believe having AJ as a friend and leader is something that give him expectations to live up to in the end.
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Old 01-10-2012   #42
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Just as long as the Ravens nor the Texans pull a Tinnbred move. RB's nowadays they're just not worth that much money.

PS. Matt Forte can be thrown into Rice and Foster's case.
It depends on the RB. In Rice's case, he led the NFL in yards from scrimmage. He is a great rusher, a great receiver from out of the backfield, has excellent hands and hardly ever loses the ball. He is worth big $$$.

I am much more familiar with Rice than I am Foster. But if he's comparable, then he's worth the money.
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Old 01-10-2012   #43
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Foster is the best running back in the NFL. What he did this season in only 12? games was remarkable. The guy is incredible and so much fun to watch. Pay him Rick!
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Old 01-10-2012   #44
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by Daravenator View Post
It depends on the RB. In Rice's case, he led the NFL in yards from scrimmage. He is a great rusher, a great receiver from out of the backfield, has excellent hands and hardly ever loses the ball. He is worth big $$$.

I am much more familiar with Rice than I am Foster. But if he's comparable, then he's worth the money.
Here's a good video of his 2010 highlights if you want to see more of Foster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu9bEAR_8pA

It really makes me miss Vonta Leach Neither Casey nor Vickers is anywhere close to as good of a lead blocker as Vonta.

Foster is the best RB in the NFL when it comes to cutting back to hit a hole that the O-line opens up. His vision is excellent and he usually finds the hole to drive through. Once he's in the open field, he is as elusive as anyone else and consistently jukes or spins away from solo tacklers. He can pass protect, he can catch on the run, he often turns 5 yard dumpoffs into 20+ yard gains, he does it all. He's the perfect fit for the Texans, and we need to retain him for the future.
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Old 01-11-2012   #45
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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I know everyone is seeing rainbows and butterflies right now but what if next week Foster fumbles late and it cost us the game? Would that change your minds? (Break that curse in the name of Jesus) just playing devils advocate here so don't crazy on me.
I won't get crazy, but I do not see how the past two years of work that Foster has put on the field will be lost on a single fumble. I also do not view Foster as a player with fumbling issues. He had that label when we signed him and Tennessee fans seemed to have nothing good to say about him.

Slaton on the other hand... He was a fumble waiting to happen each and every game.
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Old 01-11-2012   #46
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I fully understand the desire to to pay Arian the big bucks.

I just wish that I had more confidence that he would stay inspired to continue to play at a high level after getting the big bucks.

There is a certain running back that plays for the Titans that gives me pause.
To continue off of your point,

How do you think that the Panthers feel about paying Williams all of that cash?? What about the Chiefs when they paid Larry Johnson big bucks? Man, I could list examples all over the place from teams that felt remorse after paying crazy money to a RB.

Also, look at all of the SB teams from the last decade until now?? How many of them had a top 3 RB in the league?? The last one that did was Marshal Faulk on the Rams who also happened to have the best passing game in the league with Holt and Bruce who are arguably both HOF WR's.

I love Foster, and I want him resigned, but not at the kind of money that CJ or Williams got. RB's aren't worth that kind of money in the NFL, and in this day and age in the NFL, heavily investing into RB's isn't what WINS SB's.
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Old 01-11-2012   #47
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
To continue off of your point,

How do you think that the Panthers feel about paying Williams all of that cash?? What about the Chiefs when they paid Larry Johnson big bucks? Man, I could list examples all over the place from teams that felt remorse after paying crazy money to a RB.

Also, look at all of the SB teams from the last decade until now?? How many of them had a top 3 RB in the league?? The last one that did was Marshal Faulk on the Rams who also happened to have the best passing game in the league with Holt and Bruce who are arguably both HOF WR's.

I love Foster, and I want him resigned, but not at the kind of money that CJ or Williams got. RB's aren't worth that kind of money in the NFL, and in this day and age in the NFL, heavily investing into RB's isn't what WINS SB's.
Yep, that's what has me concerned, those 'examples all over the place from teams that felt remorse after paying crazy money to a RB'.

I just wish I could think of an example of a RB that didn't end up making people regret they paid him big money. Right now I can't think of one, and that bothers me.

Arian basically has the team over a barrel. They've got no choice but to pay him, based on past performance alone. If they don't, his agent will hold him out, and it will stir up a bunch of negative feelings.

The best we can hope for, is that he (his agent) will agree to a highly incentive-based contract, and if he balks, cite all those examples of RBs getting paid the big bucks and lose their incentive.

I love watching him run, and I think he's the best RB in the NFL today, but I don't have the confidence that he will continue to be.
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Old 01-11-2012   #48
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

Can someone help me understand something? I am listening to 790 and Sean Jones and Lance Z are talking about Arian. Both are pretty much in agreement that Arian would only be good in a zone blocking scheme. Sean Jones also made the argument that there is a reason why he was undrafted. But if that is the case, shouldn't there have been a reason why Tom Brady was a late round pick (essentially undrafted) or what about Marques Colston (7th round pick which is essentially undrafted)? Are those guys only good because of the teams that they play on? Or can we assume they would probably play well anywhere?

So why does Arian get such disrespect? Sure, he ran a slow 40 time. So what. Watch him on the field. The guy has FOOTBALL SPEED. He is as quick as just about any RB in the NFL. He also has some of the best moves of any RB in the league. His jukes are out of this world, and I watched a Sports Science episode on Arian that said the force on his jukes is better than any player they have ever measured. He also has amazing vision, exceptional balance, and is as elusive as you can get with the way he dodges hits and keeps from receiving too much punishment on his body.

So what's the deal? Why so much disrespect for Arian? I could understand people saying this after last year but now that he has dominated two seasons in a row, where is the respect?
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Old 01-11-2012   #49
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Here's a good video of his 2010 highlights if you want to see more of Foster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu9bEAR_8pA

It really makes me miss Vonta Leach Neither Casey nor Vickers is anywhere close to as good of a lead blocker as Vonta.

Foster is the best RB in the NFL when it comes to cutting back to hit a hole that the O-line opens up. His vision is excellent and he usually finds the hole to drive through. Once he's in the open field, he is as elusive as anyone else and consistently jukes or spins away from solo tacklers. He can pass protect, he can catch on the run, he often turns 5 yard dumpoffs into 20+ yard gains, he does it all. He's the perfect fit for the Texans, and we need to retain him for the future.
I thought I was the only one. Watching Vickers & Casey lead block makes me appreciate how good Leach was. Not only that, Leach has better hands than Vickers. Casey is an awesome receiver, but we don't take advantage of him enough as a receiver to have a mediocre blocker at FB.
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Old 01-11-2012   #50
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

There isn't a doubt in my mind McNair is going to pay Foster! I'm talking top 3 RB money (not sure about the feasibility with the cap).

After last season, Foster could have easily held out for a new contract... that's what majority of NFL players would do in his situation. But no, he didn't complain one bit, didn't even give a hint or threat of a holdout... he honored his contract and played. That says alot about what kind of person he is. To encourage that type of behavior, McNair should give him what he deserves.

I really hope we keep the duo of Foster & Tate for a long time. Having both guys around will prolong the careers of both players... but I'm sure Tate, when a FA, will look around for his own starting gig.
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Old 01-11-2012   #51
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Yep, that's what has me concerned, those 'examples all over the place from teams that felt remorse after paying crazy money to a RB'.

I just wish I could think of an example of a RB that didn't end up making people regret they paid him big money. Right now I can't think of one, and that bothers me.

Arian basically has the team over a barrel. They've got no choice but to pay him, based on past performance alone. If they don't, his agent will hold him out, and it will stir up a bunch of negative feelings.

The best we can hope for, is that he (his agent) will agree to a highly incentive-based contract, and if he balks, cite all those examples of RBs getting paid the big bucks and lose their incentive.

I love watching him run, and I think he's the best RB in the NFL today, but I don't have the confidence that he will continue to be.
People are in love with him because he's playing great here and they have "emotion" involved. He twitters, he sells wrist bands, and has a nice smile. Statistics, facts, and history regarding RB's be damned. I won't say that resigning him would be an automatic mistake or anything or that it wouldn't possibly end up being a great decision down the road in hind sight, but boy do people forget about what happened to our own player in "Domanick Davis." One play or series of plays pretty much ended his career and DD was right about the same age as Foster.

But, I've learned over the years that investing in your O line and D line is a lot more important than investing into any RB. I've seen to many teams win big from year to year without having an elite RB that is being paid crazy money. I've also seen teams with great running games that had two or three RB's in some cases carry the load and have one of the best running attacks in the league. Ward can tell you all about that when he played on the Giants.

And people seem to forget that we've got a guy on this roster named Ben Tate. His YPC average is over 5 yards if I'm not mistaken in only his first season. The Texans could find another back for the ZBS and have him on the cheap. The fact is that great RB's aren't that hard to find and average to good RB's can be very productive under a great O line and system. Great defensive players that play positions like DE, DT, S, and CB are damn hard to find. The bust rate is pretty high at those positions, and when you can find guys at those positions that can really bring it, that's what your money is worth in my opinion. That's exactly why Kubiak picked Mario Williams over Reggie Bush.

I'd really like to resign Foster, but there has to be some sort of cut off point at the RB position. Simply matching the status quo of what other backs got that got way over paid for what their position merits is playing into the NFL agent's game of getting their clients over paid.
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Old 01-11-2012   #52
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
People are in love with him because he's playing great here and they have "emotion" involved. He twitters, he sells wrist bands, and has a nice smile. Statistics, facts, and history regarding RB's be damned. I won't say that resigning him would be an automatic mistake or anything or that it wouldn't possibly end up being a great decision down the road in hind sight, but boy do people forget about what happened to our own player in "Domanick Davis." One play or series of plays pretty much ended his career and DD was right about the same age as Foster.

But, I've learned over the years that investing in your O line and D line is a lot more important than investing into any RB. I've seen to many teams win big from year to year without having an elite RB that is being paid crazy money. I've also seen teams with great running games that had two or three RB's in some cases carry the load and have one of the best running attacks in the league. Ward can tell you all about that when he played on the Giants.

And people seem to forget that we've got a guy on this roster named Ben Tate. His YPC average is over 5 yards if I'm not mistaken in only his first season. The Texans could find another back for the ZBS and have him on the cheap. The fact is that great RB's aren't that hard to find and average to good RB's can be very productive under a great O line and system. Great defensive players that play positions like DE, DT, S, and CB are damn hard to find. The bust rate is pretty high at those positions, and when you can find guys at those positions that can really bring it, that's what your money is worth in my opinion. That's exactly why Kubiak picked Mario Williams over Reggie Bush.

I'd really like to resign Foster, but there has to be some sort of cut off point at the RB position. Simply matching the status quo of what other backs got that got way over paid for what their position merits is playing into the NFL agent's game of getting their clients over paid.
Did you not watch Tate in this last game?!? He looked pretty bad. Thinking Tate can replace everything Foster does is nuts.

Alright fine, we have some bad signings with older guys like Larry Johnson but Johnson was also much older than Foster when he got his contract and had much more wear and tear on his body. I seriously think you underestimate Foster.

I really don't get you, man. Do you not remember the days of Wali Lundy, Ron Dayne, Sophomore Slaton, Samkon Gado, Ahman Green, Jonathan Wells, Chris Taylor, Ryan Moats, and all the other crappy RBs in Texans history?!? And you just want to let Arian walk because of a few bad RB signings that occurred late in guys careers?

I mean what if Arian can have a career like Ladainian Tomlinson or Marshall Faulk? Why does he automatically have to be reduced to Larry Johnson? And it still remains to be seen what history will say about the Chris Johnson contract. He still finished with over 1,000 yards in a terrible season for him, so we'll see if he turns it back around. I suspect that he will.

For every Larry Johnson that only has two great seasons and then sucks there is an Adrian Peterson, a Maurice Jones-Drew, a Steven Jackson, etc. Running backs aren't automatically bad buys. There are risks with every single position in the NFL. I think you take a chance on the best RB in the NFL.

But hey who cares. We can win with any RB, right? The same way we won with Ron Dayne and Jonathan Wells?

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Old 01-11-2012   #53
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Did you not watch Tate in this last game?!? He looked pretty bad. Thinking Tate can replace everything Foster does is nuts.


There were four games this season where Tate was our primary ballcarrier. Three games where Arian was inactive, and one game where Tate had 23 carries as compared to Arian's 10.

In those four games, Tate totaled 398 yard rushing for an average of 4.85 YPC. He also caught nine passes for 64 yards. How does one game in which he was used sparingly - and still averaged over 4 yards per carry - make those four games meaningless?

There were only 5 players who had more than 100 carries who had a higher per carry average that Tate, and one of them was a QB (Cam Newton).

I'm clearly on the pay Foster bandwagon, and I have a hard time believing he'll be playing his home games anywhere but Reliant next year, or any year in the near future, but the concept that Tate can be a #1 RB on a Super Bowl contending team (which I realize is not exactly how you characterized it) is far from nuts.
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Old 01-11-2012   #54
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

I think we'll find out Sunday what Arian Foster, Andre Johnson, Brian Cushing, JJ Watt & all the other Texans are playing for.

I think they're playing for something bigger than contracts & roster spots. I think Rick Smith already has a big number in mind for Arian Foster, after Sunday, that number is going to jump even higher.

Bob takes care of Texans.

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Old 01-11-2012   #55
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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I just wish I could think of an example of a RB that didn't end up making people regret they paid him big money. Right now I can't think of one, and that bothers me.
Emmitt Smith held out the beginning of the 1993 season and I doubt the Cowboys regretted paying him big money.

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Arian basically has the team over a barrel. They've got no choice but to pay him, based on past performance alone. If they don't, his agent will hold him out, and it will stir up a bunch of negative feelings.
The Texans can high RFA tender Foster for about $3.2 mil. But you are correct, a lot of the folks saying pay him will turn on him in a heartbeat especially once they realize he has been offered $3.2 mil.

To a degree I share your and Tex' concern but in a more general sense that I think there is always some cut-off amount the team has to decide on or you let a player walk.
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Old 01-11-2012   #56
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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There were four games this season where Tate was our primary ballcarrier. Three games where Arian was inactive, and one game where Tate had 23 carries as compared to Arian's 10.

In those four games, Tate totaled 398 yard rushing for an average of 4.85 YPC. He also caught nine passes for 64 yards. How does one game in which he was used sparingly - and still averaged over 4 yards per carry make those four games meaningless?

There were only 5 players who had more than 100 carries who had a higher per carry average that Tate, and one of the was a QB (Cam Newton).

I'm clearly on the pay Foster bandwagon, and I have a hard time believing he'll be playing his home games anywhere but Reliant next year, or any year in the near future, but the concept that Tate couldn't be a #1 RB on a Super Bowl contending team (which I realize is not exactly how you characterized it) is far from nuts.
Some good points, and I agree that Tate had a pretty productive year when he played. He just simply isn't Arian Foster good. I also have major concerns about Tate's ability to stay healthy. The guy takes a pounding when he is on the field and has a propensity for just running straight into defenders as opposed to Foster's more evasive techniques. Tate was hurt all of last year, and he was also hurt quite a bit this year.

All I am saying, to sum it up briefly, is I think it is pretty stupid to count on someone like Tate when you have a proven, top tier RB in Arian Foster.

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To a degree I share your and Tex' concern but in a more general sense that I think there is always some cut-off amount the team has to decide on or you let a player walk.
All of the above being said, I do agree with icak. Obviously, there is a limit. I just don't see Arian Foster as the type of guy to really push that limit. If he didn't hold out last season, I don't see him doing it this season if he gets the $3.2M tender. I also think he is the type of guy to accept a reasonable contract offer that makes him a very rich man but doesn't screw over the team and effect our ability to be Super Bowl contenders. Foster simply doesn't strike me as that type of guy, but I certainly could be wrong.
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Old 01-11-2012   #57
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

I wish we could see more from tate

but i agree we really have no choice but to keep foster at this point

unless they gamble and think tate can be just has good
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Old 01-11-2012   #58
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
The Texans can high RFA tender Foster for about $3.2 mil. But you are correct, a lot of the folks saying pay him will turn on him in a heartbeat especially once they realize he has been offered $3.2 mil.

To a degree I share your and Tex' concern but in a more general sense that I think there is always some cut-off amount the team has to decide on or you let a player walk.
As I know you are more than aware, that tender doesn't keep Arian from testing the market, but does give the Texans the right to match any offer he may get, and receive a first and third round draft pick as compensation if they choose not to match. While that's a pretty stiff price to pay, I think if I were a team drafting in the bottom half of the draft, and could use a stud RB, I'd definitely give some thought to forcing the Texans hand on it. If that were to happen, it would definitely resolve the situation one way or another.
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Old 01-11-2012   #59
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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...but boy do people forget about what happened to our own player in "Domanick Davis." One play or series of plays pretty much ended his career and DD was right about the same age as Foster.
I was happy to see DD get paid. In my mind, he was getting paid for what he had done, not what he was going to do. DD did not get a block buster "top RB in the league" deal. He got a fair deal considering what he had done, imo.

Foster, Forte, Rice.... in my mind deserve top RB money. None of them have any health issues like DD was dealing with when he got paid.
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Old 01-11-2012   #60
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Default Re: The importance of Arian Foster

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People are in love with him because he's playing great here and they have "emotion" involved. He twitters, he sells wrist bands, and has a nice smile. Statistics, facts, and history regarding RB's be damned. I won't say that resigning him would be an automatic mistake or anything or that it wouldn't possibly end up being a great decision down the road in hind sight, but boy do people forget about what happened to our own player in "Domanick Davis." One play or series of plays pretty much ended his career and DD was right about the same age as Foster.

But, I've learned over the years that investing in your O line and D line is a lot more important than investing into any RB. I've seen to many teams win big from year to year without having an elite RB that is being paid crazy money. I've also seen teams with great running games that had two or three RB's in some cases carry the load and have one of the best running attacks in the league. Ward can tell you all about that when he played on the Giants.

And people seem to forget that we've got a guy on this roster named Ben Tate. His YPC average is over 5 yards if I'm not mistaken in only his first season. The Texans could find another back for the ZBS and have him on the cheap. The fact is that great RB's aren't that hard to find and average to good RB's can be very productive under a great O line and system. Great defensive players that play positions like DE, DT, S, and CB are damn hard to find. The bust rate is pretty high at those positions, and when you can find guys at those positions that can really bring it, that's what your money is worth in my opinion. That's exactly why Kubiak picked Mario Williams over Reggie Bush.

I'd really like to resign Foster, but there has to be some sort of cut off point at the RB position. Simply matching the status quo of what other backs got that got way over paid for what their position merits is playing into the NFL agent's game of getting their clients over paid.
And yet there appears to big discussions going on about Mario being "expendable". That is something that I don't get. Arian is untouchable, but Mario isn't???

Good post, btw. Rep.
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