Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-17-2014   #1
sandman
All Pro
 
sandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London, England
Age: 45
Posts: 710
Rep Power: 91318 sandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respected
Default How good/bad is this defense?

Obviously RAC has implemented a bend-don't-break defense, and the Texans are 30th in yards per game, but yards don't tell the whole story.

From a turnover perspective, the Texans lead the league in forcing turnovers, being #8 in interceptions and #1 in fumble recoveries.

From a 3rd down conversion perspective, the Texans are tied for 4th at 36.0%, with having played four offenses that are in the top third for conversions.

From a scoring perspective, the Texans are #8 with the following game breakdown:

WAS: 6 points - 14.6 below season average
OAK: 14 points - 1.2 below season average
NYG: 30 points - 9.5 above season average
BUF: 17 points - 3.0 below season average
DAL: 20 points - 6.1 below season average
IND: 33 points - 2.0 points above season average
PIT: 30 points - 3.9 points above season average
TEN: 16 points - right at season average
PHI: 31 points - 1.0 points above season average
CLE: 7 points - 14.6 below season average

Outside of the Giants and Steelers, the defense held everyone else either below or at their season average. Considering that the Texans have played four of the top 6 scoring offenses in the league, do the scoring/turnover/conversion numbers outweigh the yardage numbers?

Granted, five of the games above resulted in losses, so there is always room for improvement. I don't think anyone will argue that. It's just that when you see Cleveland roll up 375 yards of offense and only score 7 points...

Which brings me to the last stat: Opponent yards per point, which the Texans are second in the league at 19.1 (Arizona leads at 19.5).

So is this a really good defense that has suffered with an weak offense? Is this a good defense that is being opportunistic? Or is this a bad defense just getting lucky?
sandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014   #2
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 53
Posts: 19,244
Rep Power: 354624 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

I think this is one of the best defenses the Texans have ever had. Like the defense we had our first year in the league (the one that singlehandedly won the game against the Steelers), it looked worse than it was because of how bad the offense was.

But.

If Mallett picks things up on the offensive side, our defense could start to put up some even better numbers.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014   #3
Scooter
Funky
 
Scooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 5,172
Rep Power: 146868 Scooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

i agree, i think this is a very very good defense. having cushing back, even limited, is a major boon for the defense - he just seems to raise everyone else's level. our corners have been more than solid, and the new players have really shown up. the line's been improved with crick's maturation and the addition of pickett. OLB and safety are weak spots. not bad really, but being impact positions that arent making an impact unless mercilus goes on a hot streak. the safeties did look a lot better with #36 seeing a more limited role.

to the questions at the end, i think we're a very talented defense with good coaching. we'd look like an elite defense if the offense could at least pull it's own weight.
__________________
Scooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014   #4
Playoffs 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Playoffs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,439
Rep Power: 393216 Playoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

I think we're slow where it hurts, poor up the middle outside of KLew, with little depth...

But have been well-coached and schemed.

NT is huge need, "island" corner, LBs/DLs, and a smarter DJSwag.
__________________
.
If you root for the Texans to fail so you can throw out an "I told you so", you are not a fan... you're a troll.
Playoffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014   #5
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 47
Posts: 49,436
Rep Power: 416490 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

I think the 2011 D was better but this one is close and is better than the stats indicate.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014   #6
Vance87
Hall of Fame
 
Vance87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Age: 27
Posts: 2,487
Rep Power: 133377 Vance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respectedVance87 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I think the 2011 D was better but this one is close and is better than the stats indicate.
Agreed.

It's hard to tell how good a defense is when you have a subpar offense. Another thing Mallet can help us find out.
__________________
Vance87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014   #7
Thorn 
Dirty Old Man
 
Thorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston
Section: Restrained in the mental ward
Age: 63
Posts: 22,733
Rep Power: 314445 Thorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

I think our defense is better than average which will help us get into the playoffs against the other better than average teams we'll face. It is most certainly not an elite defense. If 'ny can actually come even close to half his performance we saw in pre season, it'll be a damn good defense.

We need Clowny to play up to expectations to get to the next level on this defense.
__________________


"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." --- John Wayne
Thorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 11-19-2014   #8
steelbtexan
Hall of Fame
 
steelbtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 12,612
Rep Power: 125942 steelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

This defense is above avg. It would be above avg if Clowney were healthy.

This could be a great defense if they could draft a LB that could cover TE's/RB's and draft an Eric Berry type safety. Heck even a Quin type safety would make this defense elite. The big question is where is the $$$$ going to come from to keep KJ/Mallett/Lewis in FA?
steelbtexan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #9
klockWork
All Pro
 
klockWork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 700
Rep Power: 45905 klockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respectedklockWork is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
This defense is above avg. It would be above avg if Clowney were healthy.
I disagree. Clowney at this point and for the rest of this season is a disappointment. Maybe next year. But so far this dude is all speed and no technique and strength.

I rewind his match-up between Joe Thomas & Taylor Lewan. Those two tackle stonewalled him on almost every passing play. I have yet to see him disengage from a lineman's grasp. It's really sad watching how helpless he looks when someone put their hands on him. Clowney is simply not ready at this moment.

But Mercilus is a quiet beast. I saw him destroyed Colts' rising star LT Costanzo earlier this season. I was so amazed by it I went to read the Colts injuries report that week to see if Costanzo was playing injured. In the Cleveland game, I watched Joe Thomas gets driven back into the pocket several times by Mercilus bullrush. This defense is not better when Clowney is on the field. At least not this season.
klockWork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #10
Scooter
Funky
 
Scooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 5,172
Rep Power: 146868 Scooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

i cant call clowney a disappointment just yet. his bull rush has insane impact. he'll fire off several times a game at the snap and beat his man simply with the jump. he's got the instincts and athleticism to be a monster. if he stays on the field for the rest of the year he'll be more than noticed.

however. obviously health is an issue. if he's in the tub or being shot up all the time he'll be a bust. his hand technique leaves a lot to be desired. and it's hard to guage his outside arm-under rush because he cant leverage his hips/knees. he doesnt have the coordination on the left, and lacks health from the right. each time he tries to do so his lower body fails because he's quite far from being healthy.

health and hands. clowney's got everything else. if he can get healthy during the offseason he'll be an impact player. bill kollar is a bad man and along with watt can (hopefully) get clowney's hands working. if he combines both he'll be an untouchable player and the singularly best from the 2014 draft.
__________________

Last edited by Scooter; 11-19-2014 at 05:18 AM.
Scooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #11
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 53
Posts: 19,244
Rep Power: 354624 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klockWork View Post
I disagree. Clowney at this point and for the rest of this season is a disappointment. Maybe next year. But so far this dude is all speed and no technique and strength.

I rewind his match-up between Joe Thomas & Taylor Lewan. Those two tackle stonewalled him on almost every passing play. I have yet to see him disengage from a lineman's grasp. It's really sad watching how helpless he looks when someone put their hands on him. Clowney is simply not ready at this moment.

But Mercilus is a quiet beast. I saw him destroyed Colts' rising star LT Costanzo earlier this season. I was so amazed by it I went to read the Colts injuries report that week to see if Costanzo was playing injured. In the Cleveland game, I watched Joe Thomas gets driven back into the pocket several times by Mercilus bullrush. This defense is not better when Clowney is on the field. At least not this season.
On at least one rush, Clowney drove Thomas back like he was on skates.

I'm still open to seeing what Clowney puts together the rest of the year before I call this year a waste for him.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #12
Scooter
Funky
 
Scooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 5,172
Rep Power: 146868 Scooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klockWork View Post
But Mercilus is a quiet beast. I saw him destroyed Colts' rising star LT Costanzo earlier this season. I was so amazed by it I went to read the Colts injuries report that week to see if Costanzo was playing injured. In the Cleveland game, I watched Joe Thomas gets driven back into the pocket several times by Mercilus bullrush. This defense is not better when Clowney is on the field. At least not this season.
mercilus is infinitely stronger and has better leverage than most give him credit for. he has no pass rush moves to speak of, period. however, he sets the edge and has incredible pad level - along with a profound bull rush. he's also quite adept as a spy and can drop into space fairly well. if i had my way, mercilus would be starting at LOLB. reed would be a rotation and special teams player.
__________________
Scooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #13
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
 
TheMatrix31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California
Posts: 7,866
Rep Power: 79339 TheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

Outside of Watt this defense isn't anything special. The secondary is subpar and injured and the linebackers are generally unimpressive.

That said, if Cushing improves and Clowney shows, well, anything, that will go a long long long way.

But we've shown flashes of being very good so I'll say that it's inconclusive.
TheMatrix31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #14
sandman
All Pro
 
sandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London, England
Age: 45
Posts: 710
Rep Power: 91318 sandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respectedsandman is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
Outside of Watt this defense isn't anything special. The secondary is subpar and injured and the linebackers are generally unimpressive.

That said, if Cushing improves and Clowney shows, well, anything, that will go a long long long way.

But we've shown flashes of being very good so I'll say that it's inconclusive.
As individual players, yes no one stands out other than Watt. But as a body of work, leading the league in turnovers and being a league leader in yards per points, 3rd down conversions and scoring defense says that they play good team defense.

Look at these positive impact stats:

Sacks - 9 different players have recorded at least half a sack
Tackles for Loss - 16 different players have recorded tackles for loss
Interceptions - 10 different players have recorded an interception
Forced Fumbles - 7 different players have recorded a forced fumble
Fumble Recoveries - 8 different players have recorded a fumble recovery
sandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #15
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,644
Rep Power: 295319 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

I don't think this defense is as good as the 2011 defense, and frankly, probably not as good as the '03 defense. But today's NFL is different. Last year, the average points allowed per team was 374.5. Ten years ago, it was 333. 20 years ago, it was 299.2. Teams are just not really allowed to play defense anymore. So defense these days really hinges on big plays - 3rd down stops, sacks, and turnovers. By that measure, this year's defense is as good as any the Texans have ever fielded.

But this team has a huge hole at LB, IMO. They have a couple guys that might develop into solid starters, but no one that will likely ever make the Pro Bowl. Mercilus will be a first rounder that never makes a Pro Bowl, Reed is not that guy, and the inside linebackers have work to do to reach solid starter status.
__________________
A real MVP contributes in all phases of the game.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #16
speedfreek
Hall of Fame
 
speedfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,362
Rep Power: 45032 speedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respectedspeedfreek is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

It's an average defense, but with so many players injured or returning
from injury that is totally understandable.
speedfreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #17
IDEXAN
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Challis, ID
Age: 49
Posts: 8,096
Rep Power: 55069 IDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

When JD gets his game together we could have an elite unit.
IDEXAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014   #18
steelbtexan
Hall of Fame
 
steelbtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 12,612
Rep Power: 125942 steelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: How good/bad is this defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klockWork View Post
I disagree. Clowney at this point and for the rest of this season is a disappointment. Maybe next year. But so far this dude is all speed and no technique and strength.

I rewind his match-up between Joe Thomas & Taylor Lewan. Those two tackle stonewalled him on almost every passing play. I have yet to see him disengage from a lineman's grasp. It's really sad watching how helpless he looks when someone put their hands on him. Clowney is simply not ready at this moment.

But Mercilus is a quiet beast. I saw him destroyed Colts' rising star LT Costanzo earlier this season. I was so amazed by it I went to read the Colts injuries report that week to see if Costanzo was playing injured. In the Cleveland game, I watched Joe Thomas gets driven back into the pocket several times by Mercilus bullrush. This defense is not better when Clowney is on the field. At least not this season.
Clowney is only 75% at best of what he can be. His game is built off of explosion and speed and that's not there and most likely wont be there this yr. Thomas has stonewalled many DL including Watt. There's a reason Thomas is an all pro. Having Clowney healthy and on the field opens things up on the other side of the line for Watt and opens up blitzing lanes. Heck this is happening with Clowney at 70-75%, can you imagine a healthy Clowney?

There's one thing that cant be denied Clowney at 70-75% makes the Texans a much better defense. The Texans defense should've shutout the division leading Browns on their home field with Clowney playing. The Texans defense was dominate against the Tacks with Clowney playing. For me it's not about Stats it's about points scored and the Texans seem to be much better at that stat with Clowney in the lineup.

I know that doesn't fit the Clowney haters narrative. But it doesn't matter to me. I will just enjoy watching the Texans defense hold the Bungles to 10-14 pts.
steelbtexan is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger