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Old 01-02-2012   #61
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

I was literally shocked at how poor the field condition was. It was a minor miracle that more guys didn't get injured during the game. The just have to replace this system they have because it's embarrassing but more importantly dangerous for the players. I hope for the playoff game the Texans will have a great field to play on.
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Old 01-02-2012   #62
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

I've heard repeatedly that players prefer natural grass surface to any artificial surface, including the new Field Turf. I'm not an expert by any stretch, but it seems from watching the Texans games the the playing surface is not consistent from tray to tray at Reliant. I wish they had a system similar to what they have in Phoenix where they replace the entire field at once. Since that's impossible at Reliant, I wonder if it would help if as much of the field was replaced as possible in the same configuration that it was "growing" in the parking lot.

BTW, I'm not sure that money is the problem here. I wouldn't be surprised if maintaining the natural grass field at Reliant was more expensive than buying Field Turf.
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Old 01-03-2012   #63
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

The dirt painted green looked fine.

The grass was in pretty bad shape though....
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Old 01-03-2012   #64
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
I've heard repeatedly that players prefer natural grass surface to any artificial surface, including the new Field Turf. I'm not an expert by any stretch, but it seems from watching the Texans games the the playing surface is not consistent from tray to tray at Reliant. I wish they had a system similar to what they have in Phoenix where they replace the entire field at once. Since that's impossible at Reliant, I wonder if it would help if as much of the field was replaced as possible in the same configuration that it was "growing" in the parking lot.

BTW, I'm not sure that money is the problem here. I wouldn't be surprised if maintaining the natural grass field at Reliant was more expensive than buying Field Turf.



Time lapse VIDEO of Cardinals Stadium field grass being replaced
. (read blurb beneath video) And keep in mind that the Cardinal's grass lays more naturally on a foot of sand, rather than a couple of inches of whatever.

BTW, does anyone really believe that the Reliant would give up the revenues generated by the parking fees for all events that go on during the season to house an extra field?


[Just as an interesting aside, here is timelapse of Reliant Stadium as grounds crews convert the stadium from soccer to football for a Houston Texans preseason game. Made from alomst 5000 digital photos taken over 40 hours.]
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Old 01-03-2012   #65
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post

BTW, does anyone really believe that the Reliant would give up the revenues generated by the parking fees for all events that go on during the season to house an extra field?
They sure as hell won't use the revenues to pave over that mudhole in the yellow lot. If they expect me to pay for parking on mud, dirt or grass again I'll be parking 20 feet from the stadium on the only nice grass to be found. They could just...you know, OPEN the stadium and get some sun in there but who am I to want outdoor football on a 65 degree cloudless day?


It's kinda sad that the practice fields look nicer than the gameday field. Last Sunday was the first time I've ever been able to see every square pallet on the field. What's really sad is that they saw fit enough to spray paint the midfield but not the edges. What did the edges do to them?
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Old 01-03-2012   #66
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I don't get it. The Dome is where the Rodeo used to be before Reliant was even thought about. Must be some funny politics to this situation.

But based on what CnnnD said, there are technical answers to this situation. Like putting Field Turf down and then laying the non-football surfaces on top of it when required. You're telling me that the Space and Energy capital of America doesn't have the engineering smarts to figure this out??

Or is this more ammo for the "McNair is cheap" crowd?
The Texans and Houston Rodeo were partners in the implementation of financing the construction of the stadium.

If you look at the endcap of each isle, you will either see a Texans logo or a Houston Rodeo logo. The rodeo actually has more event dates than the Texans, as well. They are concentrated in a 3-4 week period, though, instead of a full football season.

The Houston Rodeo is not going anywhere, nor should they go anywhere. Huge tourist draw for the city, too.
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Old 01-05-2012   #67
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

Just heard on 610 that the entire field will be replaced and brand new for Saturday FWIW.
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Old 01-05-2012   #68
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
The Texans and Houston Rodeo were partners in the implementation of financing the construction of the stadium.

If you look at the endcap of each isle, you will either see a Texans logo or a Houston Rodeo logo. The rodeo actually has more event dates than the Texans, as well. They are concentrated in a 3-4 week period, though, instead of a full football season.

The Houston Rodeo is not going anywhere, nor should they go anywhere. Huge tourist draw for the city, too.


Spot on DB!!
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Old 01-05-2012   #69
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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Originally Posted by HTown2ATX View Post
Just heard on 610 that the entire field will be replaced and brand new for Saturday FWIW.
Hopefully they wont use the same vacant lot they've been getting the turf from for the new field.
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Old 01-06-2012   #70
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

Officials say Reliant Stadium in playoff shape
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 1:01 am by David Barron (Chronicle)

From its roof to its grass field, Reliant Stadium is prepared, say stadium officials, for Houston’s first NFL playoff game since 1994.

Contrary to the 2005 World Series, when Major League Baseball overruled the Astros’ desire to close the Minute Maid Park roof, the Texans are in control of Reliant Stadium’s retractable roof Saturday, when temperatures are expected to be in the 60s under partly cloudy skies.

Texans policy calls for the roof to be open if the temperature is above 50 degrees and below 80. The team is 15-6 under coach Gary Kubiak with the roof open (1-0 in 2011) and 14-13 under Kubiak (4-3 in 2011) with the roof closed.

Reliant’s portable grass field, which took a pounding in the back-to-back Texas A&M-Northwestern and Texans-Titans games last week, was reassembled Thursday with fresh stock from the stadium’s supply of trays topped with Tifway 419 Bermuda grass.

Seamless transition

SMG, which manages the Reliant Park complex, has the equivalent of 2.4 football fields sectioned into eight-foot-square trays, each about 3 inches deep with 4 inches of sand and sod on top. A regulation football field contains about 1,250 trays, said Reliant Park general manager Mark Miller.

The field is rolled after the trays, each of which weighs about 3,500 pounds, are put in place, and workers then check the field in an effort to eliminate seams.

Unlike most elements of Reliant Stadium, the field has not been universally acclaimed. It ranked in the middle of the pack in the NFL Players’ Association’s 2010 field safety survey, placing seventh among 18 entries on the list of best grass fields and 11th on the list of worst grass fields.

New England coach Bill Belichick was sharply critical of the field’s condition when receiver Wes Welker suffered a season-ending injury in a 2009-10 game, and former coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst with NBC Sports, said the Colts were “definitely concerned about the injury factor” during his years in Indianapolis.

Artificial turf in offing?

In the 2010 NFLPA survey, 71 percent of Texans players rated the field as excellent or good, with the remainder describing it as fair to poor.

Miller remains interested in acquiring a portable artificial turf field for Reliant so SMG can bid for the University Interscholastic League championship games, which were held on Cowboys Stadium’s artificial turf this season.

“If I could find the money (about $1.5 million for the field and the equipment needed to maintain it and move it in and out of the stadium), I’d buy it tomorrow,” he said. “I want to get into the rotation for those (high school) games.”

Miller said SMG’s grass fields made it through the punishing drought of 2011 in relatively good order by replacing rainwater with irrigation. While Reliant Park complied elsewhere with city water conversation measures, it watered its grass fields daily.

“Any landscaper will tell you that the field probably does better with natural rainwater, but we didn’t see any significant impact,” he said.
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Old 01-06-2012   #71
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

Only 1.5 Million, thats chump change, someone better pony up.
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Old 01-06-2012   #72
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

Quote:
Tony Dungy, now an analyst with NBC Sports, said the Colts were “definitely concerned about the injury factor” during his years in Indianapolis
I'm tired of Dungy's yapping about the Texans. Dude is starting to annoy me as much as Casserly does with his spewage.

I think if it was truly a legit concern, McNair would have it taken care of accordingly.

Players have spoken, Dungy, and you're full of it.

Quote:
It ranked in the middle of the pack in the NFL Players’ Association’s 2010 field safety survey, placing seventh among 18 entries on the list of best grass fields
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Old 01-06-2012   #73
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

I dug up a copy of the entire 2010 NFL PLAYERS PLAYING SURFACES OPINION SURVEY

It answers many questions. It can possibly clear up many misconceptions.........straight from the players themselves.
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Old 01-06-2012   #74
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

From CnD's link there is a big one right off the bat for folks calling for field turf.

More likely to cause injury - grass 15.9%, turf 82.4%

More likely to cause soreness and fatigue - grass 9.2%, turf 89.1%

More likely to shorten career - grass 7.6%%, turf 89.7%

81.8% of Texans want to play on grass with 12.1% wanting turf.
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Old 01-06-2012   #75
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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Yup. And I would bet the the 14 teams which didn't participate in the survey did so because they know they have crappy fields so odds are it isn't even middle of the pack and is in the 7-10 out of 32 range.
yep, exactly. Every poll I have seen reveals that players overwhelmingly prefer natural grass over any type of artificial field.

So that right there puts Reliant in a good place, and then to rank 7th when voted on by players? That says a lot to me.

Sad to read Dungy say that when the RCA Dome was Astroturf until 2005. Talk about hypocrisy at it's finest! I have never read anything from a player defending Astroturf.

Look at this press release from a Colts website about the upgrade to field turf:

Quote:
The worst playing surface in the NFL will give way to a state-of-the-art synthetic surface when the Indianapolis Colts return to the RCA Dome for the 2005 season.
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Old 01-06-2012   #76
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I dug up a copy of the entire 2010 NFL PLAYERS PLAYING SURFACES OPINION SURVEY

It answers many questions. It can possibly clear up many misconceptions.........straight from the players themselves.
Thanks for the link, that was interesting. I really wonder what the differences among astroturf fields are. I can't imagine it's that big of a deal.

Quote:
RANKING: BEST ARTIFICIAL INFILLED PLAYING FIELD
1
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS: LUCAS OIL STADIUM
2
NEW YORK JETS/GIANTS: NEW MEADOWLANDS STADIUM
3
NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: LOUISIANA SUPERDOME
4
SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: QWEST FIELD
5
DALLAS COWBOYS: COWBOYS STADIUM
6
ATLANTA FALCONS: GEORGIA DOME
7
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: GILLETTE STADIUM
8
DETROIT LIONS: FORD FIELD
8
BALTIMORE RAVENS: M&T BANK STADIUM
9
ST.LOUIS RAMS: EDWARD JONES DOME
10
CINCINNATI BENGALS: PAUL BROWN STADIUM
11
MINNESOTA VIKINGS: METRODOME
12
BUFFALO BILLS: RALPH WILSON STADIUM

And the player rankings for grass fields:
Quote:
RANKING: BEST GRASS PLAYING FIELD
1
ARIZONA CARDINALS:UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM
2
TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS: RAYMOND JAMES STADIUM
3
SAN DIEGO CHARGERS: QUALCOMM STADIUM
4
CAROLINA PANTHERS: BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM
5
GREEN BAY PACKERS: LAMBEAU FIELD
6
MIAMI DOLPHINS: SUN LIFE STADIUM
7
HOUSTON TEXANS: RELIANT STADIUM
8
JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS: EVERBANK FIELD
9
DENVER BRONCOS: INVESCO FIELD AT MILE HIGH
10
TENNESSEE TITANS: LP FIELD
11
WASHINGTON REDSKINS: FEDEX FIELD
12
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: CANDLESTICK PARK
13
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: ARROWHEAD STADIUM
14
PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: LINCOLN FINANCIAL FIELD
15
PITTSBURGH STEELERS: HEINZ FIELD
16
CLEVELAND BROWNS: CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM
17
CHICAGO BEARS: SOLDIER FIELD
18
OAKLAND RAIDERS: OAKLAND COLISEUM
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Old 01-06-2012   #77
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

CAK and DB..........your comments are exactly why I posted the actual survey, which I previously pointed out these 2010 player perceptions grass vs turf back in a spring thread.

It is the upkeep of the grass that then becomes the very important factor that separates the good, the bad, and the ugly and distinguishes one field from another.
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Old 01-06-2012   #78
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

My oldest son has played on Reliant's field a couple of times, and his thoughts as an offensive lineman is that it is the nicest field he's played on behind Texas A&M's Kyle Field (which is dern near manicured to perfection). His thoughts, fwiw.
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Old 01-06-2012   #79
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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It is the upkeep of the grass that then becomes the very important factor that separates the good, the bad, and the ugly and distinguishes one field from another.
I think that's the key with the Reliant field. It looks torn up sometimes. But even with that, it was ranked by the players higher than several outdoors grass fields. I will take a decently kept grass field over any artificial substitute.
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Old 01-06-2012   #80
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Default Re: Reliant Turf and Meineke Car Care Bowl

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My oldest son has played on Reliant's field a couple of times, and his thoughts as an offensive lineman is that it is the nicest field he's played on behind Texas A&M's Kyle Field (which is dern near manicured to perfection). His thoughts, fwiw.

I understand that but isn't your oldest son in college? That implies to me at least that Saturday the turf is better than on Sunday which makes sense if a game was played on it the day before.

Every year we start talking about how bad Reliant's turf is or looks and every year we hear that players prefer grass and that Reliant's turf is rated highly by players (exactly how varies every year).

Every year we see a game where the field looks like a horror story though (usually that's the game that starts this thread) and every year it seems like something happens to a player to make us all start worrying that the field isn't right.

This is just something that you might find interesting. It's from an interview with Bum that I linked to the other day over in another thread. The interview in it's entirety can be found here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linked Interview
How did you feel having your team play at least ten of its games per season on that notoriously hard Astrodome turf?

Phillips: I thought it was great. And after watching Seattle and Kansas City last week playing in the mud and the rain and the slop - falling on the ground and sliding for 15 yards, backs having trouble standing up - I still think artificial turf is better than natural grass. They talk about Astroturf being hard, but let me tell you what, when that ground gets frozen, it gets awful hard too. It’s like a chunk of ice.

Did you ever buy into the idea that turf tears up a football team worse than grass, in terms of injuries?

Phillips: No, definitely not. Because, at least on Astroturf, even in the wet, stormy rainy weather, no matter now many times you run up and down the field, when you put your foot down it was gonna hit where it was supposed to hit. On a mud field or a grass field, there are always spots that are dug out, which are sometimes lower than the field when your foot hits the ground. I say its harder to run on a wet grass field. Defensive backs have no chance at all on a wet, muddy field because they have to wait till the receiver - who know where he is going - makes his cut. Then they have to try and catch him. They have to make a cut after he does. Defensively, you’re at a real disadvantage on a rainy, muddy field.

Do you think playing in the Astrodome worked to the Oilers’ advantage?

Phillips: Yeah, I liked it! In fact, in 1966 we opened the Astrodome [while coaching at the University of Houston]. And the turf at that time was not good. It didn’t even have a pad under it. It was just laid on top of hard ground. It was hard, but it wasn’t slippery. But around 1968 it was much better. They developed a pad to go under it, and from that time on it was good. Nowadays they use it as an excuse in negotiations, trying to tell everybody that it’s bad. Dallas still plays on it, and they’ve won a bunch of championships. Pittsburgh plays on it and practices on it, and they’ve got a bunch of championships. I just can’t believe that it’s bad.
Players are always going to think that grass is better for them to play on than any artificial surface because frankly early implementations of AstroTurf were bad and poorly maintained AstroTurf has been blamed for a lot of injuries. I think that no matter what you come up with it will always lose out to natural grass whether it's actually worse or not.

I predict we'll be swapping trays out until someone decides it's too much trouble, too expensive, or that the field was responsible for some very high-profile player's injury and then a change will happen whether players want that change or not.

Until then we'll talk about it every year and the discussion will look a lot like this one.
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