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Old 12-26-2011   #41
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
The point is that by having the divisional games at the end of the regular season teams are slightly less likely to have things all wrapped up, as the divisional matchups are what in soccer is known as a '6 pointer' (there is a 2 game swing between the possible results) and therefore more likely to still have some relevence.
And that's just not true at all. The 2 game swing is true (IF YOU HAVEN'T CLINCHED ANYTHING), but the less likely to happen stuff isn't. 4 of the 6 divisions have had their division races over with well before week 17. Texans, Patriots, Packers, Niners, all wrapped up early and all have just been playing for seeding. And those seeding concerns are against teams from outside their divisions. Divisions games scheduled at the end made ZERO difference in the division races in 4 of the 6 divisions.

I mean, what if the Texans/Ravens game was week 16 instead of week 6? That game would have been a whole lot more meaningful than a division matchup Texans/Colts in week 16. Or Pats/Steelers could have played this week with some meaning instead of a Pats/Bills meaningless division game.

Who is on the schedule just doesn't matter. If you're wrapped up you're resting, division game or not. If you lose games and are on the bubble (AFC west/NFC east), or you've got 2 kick butt teams (AFC north), only then might it matter a little more, but if those teams were playing non-division games it would still be just as important because they've still got to win them. How would Steelers/Browns be any different than Steelers/Texans this week? It wouldn't. Steelers would have to win either way to have a chance to win their division.

Back when they announced they wanted to put division games at the end their argument was that they wanted to stop teams like the Colts from shutting it down early and letting the Jets back into the playoffs, and stuff like that, and you're just not going to stop that from happening no matter how the schedule is set up. You're just not. When you clinch you're resting. End of story.

The 2 division games at the end for the Texans have zero meaning in the division and those 2 games against the Colts/Titans would have meant exactly the same as any 2 non-division games. The Texans still needed to win them, but if they had lost the 1st one like they did to the Colts, then the week 17 game against any team in this league would mean nothing to the Texans just like the division game with the Titans means nothing to them.
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Old 12-26-2011   #42
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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And that's just not true at all. The 2 game swing is true (IF YOU HAVEN'T CLINCHED ANYTHING), but the less likely to happen stuff isn't. 4 of the 6 divisions have had their division races over with well before week 17. Texans, Patriots, Packers, Niners, all wrapped up early and all have just been playing for seeding. And those seeding concerns are against teams from outside their divisions. Divisions games scheduled at the end made ZERO difference in the division races in 4 of the 6 divisions.

I mean, what if the Texans/Ravens game was week 16 instead of week 6? That game would have been a whole lot more meaningful than a division matchup Texans/Colts in week 16. Or Pats/Steelers could have played this week with some meaning instead of a Pats/Bills meaningless division game.

Who is on the schedule just doesn't matter. If you're wrapped up you're resting, division game or not. If you lose games and are on the bubble (AFC west/NFC east), or you've got 2 kick butt teams (AFC north), only then might it matter a little more, but if those teams were playing non-division games it would still be just as important because they've still got to win them. How would Steelers/Browns be any different than Steelers/Texans this week? It wouldn't. Steelers would have to win either way to have a chance to win their division.

Back when they announced they wanted to put division games at the end their argument was that they wanted to stop teams like the Colts from shutting it down early and letting the Jets back into the playoffs, and stuff like that, and you're just not going to stop that from happening no matter how the schedule is set up. You're just not. When you clinch you're resting. End of story.

The 2 division games at the end for the Texans have zero meaning in the division and those 2 games against the Colts/Titans would have meant exactly the same as any 2 non-division games. The Texans still needed to win them, but if they had lost the 1st one like they did to the Colts, then the week 17 game against any team in this league would mean nothing to the Texans just like the division game with the Titans means nothing to them.
I see what your saying, and of course your point that playing a divisional game isn't going to affect you from resting starters once you've already clinched. The whole idea though is that there is the chance that you end up with a Ravens/Steelers type game right at the end which changes the whole playoff picture. It hasn't worked out this year, but might just make for an extremely interesting finish one year.

Of course, on the other hand, if we were to hypothetically switch our games vs. the Titans wk.17 and the Ravens game then both would have been far more interesting in hindsight. But hey, its not a bad idea by the NFL imho.
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Old 12-26-2011   #43
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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The Giants didn't need the final game of the season against the Patriots,
but played like they did. I need to see the same out of the Texans come
Sunday.
Yeah, but there was that whole, "we want to be the ones to knock off the undefeated team and see how we fare against 'the best'" thing going on. Do you think if those same Giants had been playing the Dolphins they would have gone all out like they did against the Patriots?
I'm thinking no.
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Old 12-26-2011   #44
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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I'd like to see a balanced approach to the starters playing time in this game. A guy like Cushing who has played a really tough season and is 'beat up' after having the most playing time of our LB's? Rest him.

If you have a guy like Yates who needs the PT to improve on his game, play him.

I could go into detail about which players I'd like to see rested etc but in reality, we don't ever get told an awful lot about which players are feeling the most sore etc throughout the season.

I'd certainly like to see Derrick Ward get the lions share of the carries, I'd like to see a bit of playing time for our O-line backups who have extremely limited experience. Andre, if ready, should be given some limited game time to get back into the flow.

I don't agree with the comments from those who want Tenn out of the playoffs, for me, its difficult to see a more preferrable first round game for the Texans than if they get in, especially if their film of us from the previous week is ruined by depth players who are running our schemes less efficiently than our starters would.
This makes the most sense to me. Rest the gimpy starters that need it. Give the younguns that need seasoning the reps they need.

Going all out to beat Tennessee makes little sense to me. Taking a chance on losing starters in a meaningless game would be cutting off our own nose to spite Bud's face.
We have bigger fish to fry.
If we go plain vanilla with non-starters in this last game then neither Tenn. (or whoever we face) have no clue what we'll unveil when the playoffs start.
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Old 12-26-2011   #45
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Seeing how the Titans are still alive for a playoff spot, I say you rid yourself of them when you have a chance. Step on their throats and squash them like a bug.
This.

It gives this game more "play-off atmosphere" than we've had all year. It's good practice & winning is a habit.. a rhythm. We need to get back in that rhythm.
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Old 12-26-2011   #46
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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This is preseason for the postseason. Get the starters out early. And, the Titans would be a dream opponent for the Texans initial playoff game.

Remember when Belichick got cute in '09 finale here, and Welker wiped out his knee in a meaningless game? Kubiak surely does.
Wasn't that in the first qtr? Maybe even their first possession.
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Old 12-26-2011   #47
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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I've given Kubiak a lot of grief over the past few years. But I will defend him to the utmost against criticisms of how he handles this game.
Does that mean regardless what he decides to do? If he decides not to rest his starters, would you defend that as well?
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Old 12-26-2011   #48
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

Injuries suck but you play any sport to win JMHO.
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Old 12-26-2011   #49
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

The Texans should give the Titans the" Old Yeller" treatment and put them out of their misery.
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Old 12-26-2011   #50
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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The Giants didn't need the final game of the season against the Patriots,
but played like they did. I need to see the same out of the Texans come
Sunday.
Damn straight.

Play like there's no tomorrow.

It's what they should have done last Thursday.
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Old 12-26-2011   #51
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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It gives this game more "play-off atmosphere" than we've had all year. It's good practice & winning is a habit.. a rhythm. We need to get back in that rhythm.
Not this.

You can't fake playoff atmosphere. The players know it's not the playoffs. The fans know it's not the playoffs. It won't be there.

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Does that mean regardless what he decides to do? If he decides not to rest his starters, would you defend that as well?
He won't do that. Kubiak is conservative, and resting starters is the conservative move. He'll play this like preseason. Kubiak may be many things. But, he's not a playoff noob. He's been there as a player and an assistant. This isn't his first rodeo. Kubiak will prepare for the playoff game as if it's the most important game in his coaching career. Because it is.
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Old 12-26-2011   #52
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Not this.

You can't fake playoff atmosphere. The players know it's not the playoffs. The fans know it's not the playoffs. It won't be there.
For the most part I agree with you, but there is the rare exception.. Next week's NY and Dallas game WILL BE a playoff game with a playoff atmosphere. The only time this takes place is when both teams have something on the line. It's a playoff game for the Titans, but not us. If we beat the Titans it'll be somewhat impressive, because it'll mean we beat a team that had to win or go home...but it won't be the same as what the Giants and Cowboys will experience or any other team that also finds themselves in that kind of scenario.
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Old 12-26-2011   #53
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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This.

It gives this game more "play-off atmosphere" than we've had all year. It's good practice & winning is a habit.. a rhythm. We need to get back in that rhythm.
I think we've already had a "regular season playoff atmosphere" game. It happened up in Cincy when the division was still up for grabs and the Titans were breathing down our necks and the Bengals were trying to hold on to the final WC spot. Next week's game won't equal that game or even the Falcons game for that matter. We're already locked into our spot..we can't do any better or any worse than where we are at now and the players know that.
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Old 12-26-2011   #54
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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For the most part I agree with you, but there is the rare exception.. Next week's NY and Dallas game WILL BE a playoff game with a playoff atmosphere. The only time this takes place is when both teams have something on the line.
Right. I'm only referring to this game, and from a Texan perspective. That the coaches and fans can stir up fake playoff atmosphere for this game that's meaningless for the Texans is pure fantasy.

That doesn't mean the Texans can't win this game, folks. The reserves could very well play harder than the starters would. And the Titans could play tight with the playoffs on the line. Resting starters doesn't automatically add an L in the standings.
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Old 12-26-2011   #55
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

I want the win. But I won't be upset either way. I'd like to see a good crisp series from the offense & a good 3 & out from the defense before he starts sitting people. We've had trouble staying on schedule, third down conversions, & scoring in the red zone.

I don't know what he is going to need to see to satisfy him though.

We have a lot to work on.
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Old 12-27-2011   #56
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

You play to win.

We need to get momentum going into the playoffs.

What not to do, see the Bengals versus the Jets in 2009 season.

What to do, see the Giants versus the Patriots 2007 season.

You especially don't give the team your playing any chance to make the playoffs, even more so if its a division foe.

Play. To. Win.
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Old 12-27-2011   #57
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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You play to win.

We need to get momentum going into the playoffs.

What not to do, see the Bengals versus the Jets in 2009 season.

What to do, see the Giants versus the Patriots 2007 season.

You especially don't give the team your playing any chance to make the playoffs, even more so if its a division foe.

Play. To. Win.
You can't pick one instance and say that because it happened then, it will - or even should - happen now. In 1988, the Oilers lost to the Browns in the regular season finale to finish 10-6 only to come back and beat them one week later in the first round of the playoffs. The regular season game was on the road, and because they lost, the playoff game was also in Cleveland. Something I find rather interesting about that playoff win was that it was only the second time since 1979 that the Oilers had won a game on the road against a team with a winning record. Seems like I've seen a vaguely similar statistic floating around this season regarding the Kubiak coached Texans.

In my perfect world, the Texans would never lose, but we all know how close to reality that's been since 2002. Yeah, I'd like to see the Texans beat the Titans on Sunday, but if they win the following weekend, I can probably live with whatever happens this Sunday.
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Old 12-27-2011   #58
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Is Yates healthy? If not 100%, then he should sit. If healthy, he should play a few drives in the 1st half with the o-line starters. Maybe a 2 minute drill. Then let Jake get the remaining snaps.
Would love to see what Jake and Jeff have left in the tank.
We need to see who gives us the best option moving forward.
Lots of playoff experience b/w the 2 of them.
I wish the kid was ready, would make a great story... but something is not right.
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Old 12-27-2011   #59
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Would love to see what Jake and Jeff have left in the tank.
We need to see who gives us the best option moving forward.
Lots of playoff experience b/w the 2 of them.
I wish the kid was ready, would make a great story... but something is not right.
We were blowing the titans out & Kubiak never thought to put Leinart in the game. We were blowing the Bucs out & he had Schaub finish the game on a broken foot.

It's possible that Kubiak won't let Delhomme in the game simply to avoid having a QB controversy so close to the play-offs.
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Old 12-27-2011   #60
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2BCF View Post
Would love to see what Jake and Jeff have left in the tank.
We need to see who gives us the best option moving forward.
Lots of playoff experience b/w the 2 of them.
I wish the kid was ready, would make a great story... but something is not right.
It's called "lack of 80" for me. I think we got away with it in Cincy because we were on a frantic pace for 2 drives. Give T.J. "The Best in the World", and we got something, folks.

We can make this another Arizona. Just get our future HOFer back.

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