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Old 12-26-2011   #1
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Default Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

The injury report on Yates before the last 2 games listed a shoulder and later an elbow injury... but went on to play.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/...6?q=t.j.-yates

Have to wonder if that was a factor in choosing dink & dunk passes.
I realize that we're weak at WR until AJ returns, but this may have also been a factor.
I like Yates, but even on those short throws his accuracy wasn't stellar, if he throws deep that inaccuracy would just be greater. Anyone notice how long that hail mary pass was at the end of the game?
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Old 12-26-2011   #2
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

I doubt it. If it was really bothering him wouldn't they bring out delhomme? And to be honest I didn't watch the end. I turned it off right when Wayne caught the td pass. Almost threw the remote straight at the tv
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Old 12-26-2011   #3
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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Originally Posted by 2BCF View Post
The injury report on Yates before the last 2 games listed a shoulder and later an elbow injury... but went on to play.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/...6?q=t.j.-yates

Have to wonder if that was a factor in choosing dink & dunk passes.
I realize that we're weak at WR until AJ returns, but this may have also been a factor.
I like Yates, but even on those short throws his accuracy wasn't stellar, if he throws deep that inaccuracy would just be greater. Anyone notice how long that hail mary pass was at the end of the game?
yeah I thought of that too... That hail mary was like 20 yds short of the goal line if I remember correctly...
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Old 12-26-2011   #4
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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yeah I thought of that too... That hail mary was like 20 yds short of the goal line if I remember correctly...
I honestly think Yates is on borrowed time.

Unless the kid does very well in the first half, I expect to see Jake or Jeff out there against the Tacks by the end of the game.
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Old 12-27-2011   #5
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

I would imagine he got a lot of talking to after the two INT game vs Carolina. Chances are he was being extra conservative.

This week they'll look at film & he'll get a talking to for being too conservative. Sunday, he'll probably take a few more chances.

Just a little fine tuning I think.
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Old 12-27-2011   #6
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

Yates made the tackles after both INTs against Panthers. Someone at the game was watching with binoculars when Yates went to talk to Kubes and said Yates unbuckled both sides of his chinstrap with his left hand.

He was limited in practice for Colts. Maybe he just couldn't throw downfield in the Colts game. That last pass looked awful weak.
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Old 12-27-2011   #7
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

We might see Delhomme get some reps anyway just for evaluation.
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Old 12-27-2011   #8
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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Originally Posted by 2BCF View Post
The injury report on Yates before the last 2 games listed a shoulder and later an elbow injury... but went on to play.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/...6?q=t.j.-yates

Have to wonder if that was a factor in choosing dink & dunk passes.
I realize that we're weak at WR until AJ returns, but this may have also been a factor.
I like Yates, but even on those short throws his accuracy wasn't stellar, if he throws deep that inaccuracy would just be greater. Anyone notice how long that hail mary pass was at the end of the game?
I don't disagree with your thinking here except for the bolded. He was 13 for 16 against the Colts, I'm thinking that is pretty accurate.

I was also thinking that he may have been skittish in that game after the two int's against the Panthers. Also, the O-line was providing almost no pass support.

I'm thinking those two have more to do with his performance and what he was asked to do.
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Old 12-27-2011   #9
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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Originally Posted by Texas T View Post
I don't disagree with your thinking here except for the bolded. He was 13 for 16 against the Colts, I'm thinking that is pretty accurate.

I was also thinking that he may have been skittish in that game after the two int's against the Panthers. Also, the O-line was providing almost no pass support.I'm thinking those two have more to do with his performance and what he was asked to do.
I think it is mostly to do with I bolded above. NO PASS PROTECTION. The right side of our o-line pretty much got destroyed in the passing game, while they did well in run blocking.
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Old 12-27-2011   #10
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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Originally Posted by BuffaloglennTX View Post
I think it is mostly to do with I bolded above. NO PASS PROTECTION. The right side of our o-line pretty much got destroyed in the passing game, while they did well in run blocking.
I agree with you here. It seems like it took Schaub a few years to stop getting killed all the time, and even now he still gets beaten down a lot even when he gets the ball out. Maybe that's normal for the rest of the NFL, I'm not sure.

I have a feeling the fewer sacks are a result of Matt learning to get rid of the ball faster, which is what T.J. needs to do. Hopefully he can get over the typical rookie second-guessing, but I have a feeling he doesn't have enough experience, and because of this the defense and running game will have to make up for it.

One thing I would rather see, though, is Yates throwing 2 or 3 picks instead of dinking and dunking it all game. Maybe it's personal choice, but the dink and dunk just drives me crazy and at least if he throws 2 or 3 picks it's because he's (ideally) trying to push the ball down the field. I know our team is supposed to be built for surviving a dink and dunk offense, but I have a feeling our injuries are going to kill us in the playoffs if Yates doesn't make some plays.
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Old 12-27-2011   #11
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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I agree with you here. It seems like it took Schaub a few years to stop getting killed all the time, and even now he still gets beaten down a lot even when he gets the ball out. Maybe that's normal for the rest of the NFL, I'm not sure.
Well for reference, sacks as a percentage of attempts:

Schaub 5%

Your bookends for Schaub:

Carr 10.7%
Yates 9.7%

League references:

Brady 4.9%
Manning 3.1%
Cutler 6.0%
Flacco 6.6%
Hasselbeck 6.4%
Eli 4.7%
Peyton 3.1%
McNabb 7.1%
Orton 5.7%
Palmer 4.8%
Rivers 5.3%
Rodgers 7.0%
Roethlisberger 8.7%
Romo 5.1%
Sanchez 6.1%
Vick 8.8%
VY 6.0%
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Old 12-27-2011   #12
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Well for reference, sacks as a percentage of attempts:

Schaub 5%

Your bookends for Schaub:

Carr 10.7%
Yates 9.7%

League references:

Brady 4.9%
Manning 3.1%
Cutler 6.0%
Flacco 6.6%
Hasselbeck 6.4%
Eli 4.7%
Peyton 3.1%
McNabb 7.1%
Orton 5.7%
Palmer 4.8%
Rivers 5.3%
Rodgers 7.0%
Roethlisberger 8.7%
Romo 5.1%
Sanchez 6.1%
Vick 8.8%
VY 6.0%
Thanks for the info. Looks at a cursory glance as though he's about in the middle. My main concern comes from hits after the ball is released though, as that should provide a good indicator of whether or not the line is giving ample protection (of course we would probably also need average dropback time prior to the pass, but that would make this extremely complicated).

1 sack for every 10 passes is not good, though. Hopefully this can get corrected before the playoffs.
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Old 12-27-2011   #13
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

Before last week's game, I posted my concern of Yate's "right shoulder" listing on the injury report. After the in-game tackles, I became more concerned. That, on top of the abysmal right-sided pass protection, the concern grew. Nevertheless, the thing that drove me nuts from last game were the 3rd down completed passes falling 2-3 yards short of the 1st down marker, especially when there were deeper options available (Yates vs. Kubiak).

Improving any one of the above problems will lead to a victory over the Titans.
Leaving all in status quo, we can expect another loss......and another not-so-good intolerable depressing and discouraging embarrassment for fans..........and the players going into the Playoffs!
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Old 12-27-2011   #14
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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Originally Posted by redwhiteANDblue View Post
I doubt it. If it was really bothering him wouldn't they bring out delhomme? And to be honest I didn't watch the end. I turned it off right when Wayne caught the td pass. Almost threw the remote straight at the tv
i doubt it, Kubiak said that Yates is the guy, he is a rookie and needs all the game time experience he can get. And did anyone see his hailmary, it was REALLY short compared to earlier on when i saw him chunk it down the field.
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Old 12-27-2011   #15
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

Next man up : I
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Old 12-27-2011   #16
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

Winston needs to pull his head out of his butt or we will see Jake Delhomme sooner than later. That pass protection was lousy.
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Old 12-30-2011   #17
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

I don't think we can really learn much about Yates' arm from the Indy game, the kid basically had two choices: throw the ball or get sacked... I relate most of the short passes in that game to bad blocking by the Oline...

As for the Carolina game, I think the short passes, mostly dump-offs were more of a pendulum swing from the previous game (Cincy)... Against Cincy he was sacked five times, and most of those weren't because of bad blocking, but because he held on to the ball, in the pocket a little too long... I'm sure it was something they went over with him in film etc..., and instead of trying to bounce outside of the pocket to buy more time he just went to the other extreme, which was getting rid of the ball too early... Josh Innis on 610 relates the dump-offs more to Andre not being in the game, which could have been part of the problem, but apparently he doesn't remember the Cincy game, where the kid was going down field early and often, totally Andreless...

that's the thing about rookies and young QBs in general, they have pendulum swings... Just look at the first half of the Cincy game... Yates was throwing too high, and one of those "too-high" balls was picked... Look at the second part of that first half and what was he doing? Throwing a little too short... He pulled too much off of the ball (to the other extreme)... finally in the second half it stopped swinging so much, and he was damn near dialed in...

You know what young QB's, even RB's say when it finally starts clicking for them, "the game slowed down!"... That not only means that you catch up to the speed of the game, but that you find your balance within the game... that does not come without pendulum swings...

That's what gives me that "little bit" of hope with the kid as the team goes into the playoffs, he's learning what he can and cannot do, and hopefully he dials it in "enough" this week and can continue with it in the first round... just wish the o-line would have given him a better shot against Indy because that was one of two regular season games left to work out the kinks... it's done, can't wait for Sunday!
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Old 12-30-2011   #18
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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I was also thinking that he may have been skittish in that game after the two int's against the Panthers.
.
I think that the second pick he threw down in the redzone was easily correctable, and that it wouldn't have much effect on his performance the next couple of weeks, but that first one he threw can be a killer when it comes to him going down field in the future...

I watched that play over and over again, and though Walter was covered rather well, he was moving in a way that would suggest to his QB that he could come back to the ball and get it (he actually does a damn good job of this year after year)... the ball seemed to be right on track for that type of "in the belly as I fall down" catch for Walter, Yates just didn't account for the LB sitting on the route... my worry is that in the future he'll have receivers in the area where Walter was on that INT, and though the LB isn't sitting as close to the route and isn't in any position to jump it and make the pick, and is about five/10 feet inside, TJ doesn't make the throw...

You have to hope it doesn't scare him too much...
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Old 12-30-2011   #19
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Default Re: Yates' shoulder/elbow injury reason for short passes?

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I think that the second pick he threw down in the redzone was easily correctable, and that it wouldn't have much effect on his performance the next couple of weeks, but that first one he threw can be a killer when it comes to him going down field in the future...
I think we can mark the first one up to learning how fast LBs are in the NFL. He probably made that throw 100 times in college & it was never close to being an INT. In the NFL, every LB he plays against is probably faster than the LBs he played in college.
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Old 12-30-2011   #20
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I think we can mark the first one up to learning how fast LBs are in the NFL. He probably made that throw 100 times in college & it was never close to being an INT. In the NFL, every LB he plays against is probably faster than the LBs he played in college.
Agree... I just hope he actually learns the lesson, and doesn't stray away from making those mid-level throws in fear of an LB jumping it, unless an LB is actually a threat...
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