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Old 12-24-2011   #21
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Gee I guess Mathis leads the league in sacks and has about 20 already then huh? Oh wait.......he doesn't, hmm I guess not every RT in the league gets their ass kicked by speed rushers.

Next time how about you just don't bother to post at all in threads like this, we don't really need you telling us how "dumb" we are.

Winston is a weak link on the line when he's matched up against players like that and no....not every RT has that glaring hole in their game, it would be "dumb" to think that and to make excuses and write off Winston's inability to stay in front of players like that.
sorry but it is dumb to want to change your good RT to guard after 6 seasons (with 1 game to go before the playoffs! ) after a few poor pass protection outings v smallish speed rushers. everybody who follows the texans knows thats erics weakness just like it is with the majority of RT's (obviously they are a couple elite exceptions but generally RT's are run blocking maulers with less agility and quickness). im not exactly going out on a limb saying that so why argue? he makes up for it with his very good-great run blocking. possibly related: texans have one of the top run games last two yrs

mathis is one of the best pass rushing lde's in the league. you're trying to argue that with sack stats? real insightful
just as an example if a stat guy like yourself were to go by the sack stats jason babin is one of if not the best DE in the league?

theres a handful of guys that give eric problems but he handles 90% of them fine. its just that hes faced two of the few that do give him trouble in recent weeks in abraham and mathis. unless ive overlooked somebody, i see none of the teams we're due to face in the playoffs having one of those guys
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Old 12-24-2011   #22
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
How about have Butler play RT and move Winston inside?

How come out of all of the OL on the Texans, Winston seems to be the most popular? When anyone talks about a potential pro bowler on the OL, they bring up Winston? Brown & Myers are our clear two best lineman.
How about we just use the TE to chip the speed rushers when we know it's a passing down then release into their route. Gary is very stubborn sometimes and refuses to change his tactics based on personnel.
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Old 12-24-2011   #23
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

Iirc, the sack Winston allowed to Mathis, wasn't all that much his fault, but moreso on Yates for not stepping up into the open pocket. Winston was pushing Mathis to the outside, but Yates took 5 steps back and never took one forward, so he was right there once Mathis got to the top of the pocket.
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Old 12-24-2011   #24
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
sorry but it is dumb to want to change your good RT to guard after 6 seasons (with 1 game to go before the playoffs! ) after a few poor pass protection outings v smallish speed rushers. everybody who follows the texans knows thats erics weakness just like it is with the majority of RT's (obviously they are a couple elite exceptions but generally RT's are run blocking maulers with less agility and quickness). im not exactly going out on a limb saying that so why argue? he makes up for it with his very good-great run blocking. possibly related: texans have one of the top run games last two yrs

mathis is one of the best pass rushing lde's in the league. you're trying to argue that with sack stats? real insightful
just as an example if a stat guy like yourself were to go by the sack stats jason babin is one of if not the best DE in the league?

theres a handful of guys that give eric problems but he handles 90% of them fine. its just that hes faced two of the few that do give him trouble in recent weeks in abraham and mathis. unless ive overlooked somebody, i see none of the teams we're due to face in the playoffs having one of those guys
Nobody was talking about "changing him out with 1 game before the playoffs"...they were talking about drafting someone in the offseason. As in after this season is over.

Jason Babin IS one of the best pass rushers in the league now...what's your point?

Fact is Winton is a liability in pass protection against the type of DEs that play in our division and the type that you see in the playoffs...if you can upgrade the position you do it. Nobody is irreplaceable and it's not "dumb" to have a debate about it. That is the purpose of this board is it not? If you thought it was a "dumb" idea or discussion, then maybe you should just move on to another topic in another thread.
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Old 12-24-2011   #25
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
moving winston to rg? couldnt be bothered diging out the 'not this shit again' picture but it fits

why are ppl surprised a RT struggles with speed rushers? geez winston must be the only one of those

this forum gets pretty dumb after losses
Uhm, several of us were "bitching" after the Miami game...which we won. Winston has played like he was wearing cement shoes several times this year. They were all against speed rushers.

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Iirc, the sack Winston allowed to Mathis, wasn't all that much his fault, but moreso on Yates for not stepping up into the open pocket. Winston was pushing Mathis to the outside, but Yates took 5 steps back and never took one forward, so he was right there once Mathis got to the top of the pocket.
Yeah, I score that 60/40 Yates, but others might see differently.
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Old 12-25-2011   #26
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

From Kubes press conference:

Quote:
(on if RT Eric Winston’s penalties and pass protection in the last month are a concern) “No. Eric’s a consistent player for us. He struggled with (Robert) Mathis. I mean, they’ve got Pro Bowl players on both sides. Two great players, been doing it a long, long time. The biggest disappointment for me, we had four sacks. Three out of those for sacks came when we were actually trying to help our tackles. They weren’t even singled up. We didn’t play well toward our help, without me getting into a bunch of football stuff. We need to play to our help better when we’re getting it and we didn’t do that. We’ve got to protect our quarterback a lot better than we did.”
Sounds like Winston was supposed to have back/TE on three of the four sacks.
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Old 12-25-2011   #27
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Duane Brown has developed into a elite LT and he's one of the best in the league now. They need to go ahead and lock him up with a long term contract.
I believe the only LT to not give up a sack this year!
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Old 12-25-2011   #28
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasTom View Post
From Kubes press conference:



Sounds like Winston was supposed to have back/TE on three of the four sacks.
As I've said before, if you have to steal from another position to re-inforce the tackle, another area is left weakened, mostly likely collapse of the pocket from pressure up the middle.
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Old 12-25-2011   #29
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
As I've said before, if you have to steal from another position to re-inforce the tackle, another area is left weakened, mostly likely collapse of the pocket from pressure up the middle.
Not a good situation with a backup guard.
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Old 12-25-2011   #30
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasTom View Post
From Kubes press conference:



Sounds like Winston was supposed to have back/TE on three of the four sacks.
Winston only gave up two sacks, he had help on one, the one he got called for the holding penalty.

This quote makes it sound like he wasn't the only one who gave up a sack when help was there.
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Old 12-25-2011   #31
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

What's important when beat is to stay engaged & look to block release outlet so QB has out option.
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Old 12-25-2011   #32
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasTom View Post
From Kubes press conference:



Sounds like Winston was supposed to have back/TE on three of the four sacks.
My question is, what does this really mean?
Quote:
We didn’t play well toward our help, without me getting into a bunch of football stuff. We need to play to our help better when we’re getting it and we didn’t do that.
Did the TEs/RBs not pick up effectively or did Yates not "feel" where the rush was coming from and correctly step into the pocket? Or did the help not create a proper pocket?
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Old 12-25-2011   #33
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
My question is, what does this really mean?


Did the TEs/RBs not pick up effectively or did Yates not "feel" where the rush was coming from and correctly step into the pocket? Or did the help not create a proper pocket?
I've only noticed 2 plays where this was a problem.

The most obvious one was where Winston gets called on a holding penalty & gives up the sack. He's got Dressen outside of him, and instead of protecting his inside, he let himself get beat to the inside. He should have protected the inside against all odds. Never should have happened.

There was another, where Tj takes a quick 3 step drop, pulls the ball down then rolls around to his left & get sacked. Vickers is the help, coming out of the backfield. He thinks (judging by what he does) Caldwell is getting beat on the inside & tries to slide to the inside to help. But he runs right into Yates, disturbing his throwing motion, causing Yates to pull it back down.

The sack strip, Winston had no help, but Tj should have "felt" it & stepped up...... I mean other than Winston doing a better job & forcing Mathis on a wider arc.... Tj could have helped out there.

I don't know what the other one was.
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Old 12-25-2011   #34
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

He had problems with Robert Mathis?



In a John Granato voice: "Who doesn't?"
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Old 12-26-2011   #35
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

Winston is the blocker who got beat on the play where Leinart was drilled into the ground and lost for the season.

He was playing patty-cake with his defender, it was amateur hour for who everyone thinks Winston to be (A Pro Bowl-caliber RT).

Look, I don't know what the deal is with him this season. I didn't see this consistent level of suckage from him early on in the season. I wonder if he's got some injuries or overall "banged up" problems that have hobbled him to the point of not being out of games but not being in prime condition either.

I don't even think Kubiak would move him to RG in 2012 either. Hopefully they're working on "blocking to their help" as Kubiak put it.
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Old 12-26-2011   #36
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Default Re: Eric Winston vs. Indy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
My question is, what does this really mean?


Did the TEs/RBs not pick up effectively or did Yates not "feel" where the rush was coming from and correctly step into the pocket? Or did the help not create a proper pocket?
Can we get you press credentials?
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