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Old 12-22-2011   #21
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
i dont put this on yates, yeah he didnt do very good in obvious passing downs but the coaches put him in that situation. What do you think happens when you run then run and then have to pass. He was succesful passing on 1st and 2nd downs, not so much on 3rd, it dont help caldwell is stinking it up.
nor did it help that we have 2 guys trying to beat 5 downfield.. and people wonder why yates kept hitting his checkdown..

its a lose-lose situation
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Old 12-22-2011   #22
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

Yates, Delhomme, Garcia. They're all three the same guy as far as this team is concerned right now.

They're "Not Schaub". Yates has more knowledge of the current system but almost no experience. Delhomme & Garcia got experience (too much if you want to know the truth) but they've only been here a couple of weeks. They'd look just as limited as Yates does.

Teams aren't meant to go three deep at QB and drive into the playoffs. It just doesn't happen. Particularly not when they got something between "jack" and "shit" at WR. Having no Andre Johnson just makes an already hopeless situation even worse.

And Andre isn't coming back next week and knocking off all the rust to suddenly become effective in the first round playoff game. He's going to be a mess and likely aggravate his hamstring again the first time he tries to take off and be Superman.

We're screwed.
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Old 12-22-2011   #23
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit shooting antifreeze.
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Old 12-23-2011   #24
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

We're just not scoring anymore. Even in the Cincy victory we got lucky. Orlovsky is a journeyman and he outplayed Yates. We have very little chance of winning in the first round of the playoffs if things stay the same.
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Old 12-23-2011   #25
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Originally Posted by Spled View Post
We're just not scoring anymore. Even in the Cincy victory we got lucky. Orlovsky is a journeyman and he outplayed Yates. We have very little chance of winning in the first round of the playoffs if things stay the same.
Pretty much.

Ever since Andre been out we've been lucky to score over 14 points.
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Old 12-23-2011   #26
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
Wat game were u watching? And delhomme is? Kubes terrible play calling killed us. Only 1 3rd down conversion, that falls on play calling. All 3rd down plays were scripted less than the marker
So the players who got beat or just flat missed blocks bear no responsibility?
Or the guys who were running routes short of the first down marker get off scott free...??

SMH
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Old 12-23-2011   #27
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Yates, Delhomme, Garcia. They're all three the same guy as far as this team is concerned right now.

They're "Not Schaub". Yates has more knowledge of the current system but almost no experience. Delhomme & Garcia got experience (too much if you want to know the truth) but they've only been here a couple of weeks. They'd look just as limited as Yates does.

Teams aren't meant to go three deep at QB and drive into the playoffs. It just doesn't happen. Particularly not when they got something between "jack" and "shit" at WR. Having no Andre Johnson just makes an already hopeless situation even worse.

And Andre isn't coming back next week and knocking off all the rust to suddenly become effective in the first round playoff game. He's going to be a mess and likely aggravate his hamstring again the first time he tries to take off and be Superman.

We're screwed.
Agreed.
Injuries to our starters are really catching up to us.
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Old 12-23-2011   #28
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
i dont put this on yates, yeah he didnt do very good in obvious passing downs but the coaches put him in that situation. What do you think happens when you run then run and then have to pass. He was succesful passing on 1st and 2nd downs, not so much on 3rd, it dont help caldwell is stinking it up.
Wasn't it just last season, in the Colts game, we blamed Kubiak for the exact opposite? Arian was running well, but Kubiak called a lot of passing plays... everyone in here was saying, "We should've ran Arian all game long!"

Well Arian, in this game, averaged 6.9 ypc. I didn't mind running the ball in 1st & 2nd down, as the Colts clearly had no answer for Foster.
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Old 12-23-2011   #29
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
Wasn't it just last season, in the Colts game, we blamed Kubiak for the exact opposite? Arian was running well, but Kubiak called a lot of passing plays... everyone in here was saying, "We should've ran Arian all game long!"

Well Arian, in this game, averaged 6.9 ypc. I didn't mind running the ball in 1st & 2nd down, as the Colts clearly had no answer for Foster.
This is correct! Everyone WAS saying that! Run Foster, Run! And Kubiak should have!

However...

That was with AJ and Schaub in the game, and Peyton Manning playing against us. Different scenario = Setting up the pass with the run.

This time - this year - nobody is going to respect a rookie 5th rounder unless the Texans make them! To wit, it is time to set up the run with the pass.

With Yates under center, we went from passing the ball 25, 44 and 30 times a game, to 16.

Only 16 times!! With all these creative offensive minds on staff they couldn't have devised 10 more safe passes to Foster, Casey and even Vickers in the attempts to create mismatches?

Arian Foster, arguably the deadliest RB in space? Arian Foster, one of the biggest weapons in the NFL only catches 3 passes for 16 yards - and that was on checkdowns? In other words, no designed passing plays to get an elite player open?

Hell, Vickers had 4 catches for 29 yards the last game. Tell 'em, Wade, that's nearly 3 first downs left on the field!

Ya see, there's this thing called game-time adjustments. I know it's a difficult thing to grasp...but if Kubiak doesn't know how to adjust against a Tampa 2 by now, he's never going to friggin' know.
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Old 12-23-2011   #30
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Originally Posted by EVOLVIST View Post
With Yates under center, we went from passing the ball 25, 44 and 30 times a game, to 16.
In order to throw a significant number of times you have to sustain drives. Yates couldn't get it done. Never really had any time. The people on the field have to do their damned jobs. Yates was sacked 4 times and was hit on 3 other plays.

Absorb that stat for a moment
...that's 7 pressures/sacks out of only 16 attempts. That's horrifying. Embarrassing!

The damned O-line (I'm looking at you Caldwell and Winston) have to give the boy time to throw. Why dial up a bunch of passes when your O-line is letting your QB get creamed nearly ever other time he tries to drop back?
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Old 12-23-2011   #31
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

i'd prefer garcia.

i've got no problem blaming yates. a 5 yard completion looks great when the stat line doesnt take into account it being 3rd and 8. and this blame conservative kubiak stuff is nonsense. foster's averaging 10 yards a pop but tate is having a terrible game ... your QB needs to convert some of these 3rd downs if the offense is going to have a chance and to give foster more carries and find the endzone.

our offense is obviously a qb friendly system. the receivers and blocking have a simple execution setup, it's up to the quarterback to know without looking where the receivers are and identify the coverage. yates isnt there yet. he's still trying to find his receivers and isnt seeing the coverage nor feeling the pocket.

i'll start with the pocket. he has great movement within it ... when he's taking a 7 step play-action. he two-steps a 3 step drop (2 sacks being a jersey grab because he shorted his quick drop) and slides on a 5. footwork in general needs a lot of work. his plant is either early or late and he isnt in rhythm very often.

coverage is the real issue though ... he doesnt see it. we run mostly vertical and split progressions. yates isnt just staring down his primary, he's attempting to locate it. to speed things up kubiak is trying to give him easier first reads which yates is keying on and just not quick enough yet to locate others. this is why schaub can noodle arm and slowest bootleg ever to 4000 yards ... he knows the system and can A-B-C-dump with his eyes closed. yates needs more practice time throwing to a spot while identifying coverage.

i think yates is going to be pretty good for the texans, that opinion hasnt changed, but he's not ready unless we want to make a reckless gunslinger out of him (which would be an upgrade). if we're going to go with a game manager, someone who knows the game and can get us wins in the playoffs, i'd much rather see garcia or delhomme.

yes i'm drunk.
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Old 12-23-2011   #32
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
In order to throw a significant number of times you have to sustain drives. Yates couldn't get it done. Never really had any time. The people on the field have to do their damned jobs. Yates was sacked 4 times and was hit on 3 other plays.

Absorb that stat for a moment
...that's 7 pressures/sacks out of only 16 attempts. That's horrifying. Embarrassing!

The damned O-line (I'm looking at you Caldwell and Winston) have to give the boy time to throw. Why dial up a bunch of passes when your O-line is letting your QB get creamed nearly ever other time he tries to drop back?
without watching again, i put atleast 3 of those sacks on yates
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Old 12-23-2011   #33
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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without watching again, i put atleast 3 of those sacks on yates
So you're saying he had time but he was indecisive...??
or maybe our receivers couldn't get open or find holes in that zone...?

I'm not disputing you because I haven't watched the whole game again; just asking for clarification.
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Old 12-23-2011   #34
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

i put the first sack/fumble on yates because he was given a massive lane to step into but misjudged and let the DE come around. two others were on 3 step drops that he two-stepped and got caught by DT's. whether it was indecisiveness or poor technique i'm not sure, but he was standing in his blockers' pockets and was grabbed through the blocks from what i saw.

again this is without a repeat watching, just going off of my reaction of twice saying "finish your drop!", "he two-stepped a 3 step drop and didnt have room to get the pass off".
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Old 12-23-2011   #35
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

Seems like all has been covered.
1. Injuries have hurt us. AJ hurt has made our group of WRs probably last in the possible playoff teams and I don't even know what the other playoff teams have at WR. It is what it is now but it didn't have to be. Our brain rust stood pat on our WRs this year. Just like they stood pat with our RBs a few years back with Chris Brown. I wonder what Maehl could bring to the table. Have never seen him, just thinking outside box. Remember the year we had no RBs and missed playoffs by ONE game Kubiak kept the wraps on Foster until it was too late.
2. As stated above our WRs without Andre way below average.
3. Kubes starting to go back into shell. He knows what he has a rookie QB with weak WRs so I can understand what he feels. Maybe you can still be on the conservative side but maybe get more creative. Again thinks outside the box. We have weapons use them in different ways.
4. Kubiak should be using these games to push the envelope on everything instead of bunker hole mentality. He has to know that we can't go into the playoffs with his conservative mindset and expect to go any further than the 2nd round. Maybe we get by the 1st round but no further. Start now preparing for the 2nd round and beyond.
5. I think TJ is our best shot at this point. Way too late in game to make a change. How many INTs did Delhomme have in one playoff game. How long has it been since Garcia has played an NFL game? It seems that TJ has been told whatever you do don't turn it over. Maybe they need to say play smart but don't be afraid to let it fly.
6. AJ hopefully coming back. Let's see what happens when he returns. Take wraps off offense and TJ. Kubiak I would rather go down trying to win vs digging a deeper bunker. Just my opinion
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Old 12-23-2011   #36
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

Look folks, we aren't going very deep in the playoffs anyway considering all that's happened with the injuries. I would rather keep TJ in, if for nothing else than he needs the practice. With the point production down by 10 points a game since Schaub has left, and AJ questionable and a weak WR core, we might not even beat the Titans.

But it's not time for Delhomme. He won't be here next year, or Garcia either. If Schaub does not return, it'll be either Hot Tub or Yates or someone else, but it won't be Delhomme or Garica. Might as well give the playing time to someone who will be here next year.
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Old 12-23-2011   #37
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

Before we make a qb change we need to know if Yates is not throwing deep OR if Gary is not allowing him to....this is a big difference, part of me says, I doubt Gary told him do NOT throw deep.....but then again it IS GARY OVER THINK KUBIAK we're talking about here......


Bringing in Delhomme or Garcia and trying to put a muzzle on them won't work either, you gotta let the gunslinger throw the ball around....until then we can expect to see the same results
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Old 12-23-2011   #38
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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Look folks, we aren't going very deep in the playoffs anyway considering all that's happened with the injuries. I would rather keep TJ in, if for nothing else than he needs the practice. With the point production down by 10 points a game since Schaub has left, and AJ questionable and a weak WR core, we might not even beat the Titans.

But it's not time for Delhomme. He won't be here next year, or Garcia either. If Schaub does not return, it'll be either Hot Tub or Yates or someone else, but it won't be Delhomme or Garica. Might as well give the playing time to someone who will be here next year.
Excellent point. Invest in our future or at least get a better idea what we have so we have more information to plan our future.
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Old 12-23-2011   #39
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

Wait, what??!? I thought we were ready to dump Schaub in favor of the "Next Tom Brady"? What happened to that plan and why are we now talking about starting DelHomie?
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Old 12-23-2011   #40
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Default Re: It's time for Delhomme

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I'd be curious to hear which 3rd down play you thought he should have done better, and exactly what you thought he should have done. Personally, I don't think he should have handed it off on 3rd and long, but that's what he did. Who the hell let that guy decide to do that, anyway?

13/16 for 132 yards, 10 YPC.
Wow...you know things have gotten bad when things turn into the old Carr debate. I like Yates, but he doesn't force the ball down the field, for whatever reason. How many 20+ yard throws did you see Last night, because I can't recall any. The fact is he is playing essentially dink and dunk and I had enough of that with Carr. Maybe it's Kubiak's fault, but that tell me Kubiak doesn't trust Yates. This offense was so dangerous with Schaub because almost any pass was possible, and certainly the long ball was.

I just hope Andre helps change this because it is ridiculous. We have plenty of solid tight ends who should help out a young qb and they seem to disappear.
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