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Old 12-18-2011   #21
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Wade smith disagrees with you.

The only reason Mario would not be back is cap reasons. Bit besides that, your reasoning is flawed. Weve won without a log of players. Doesn't mean they don't make us better. Coughandrecough.

And Dale, I'm just going to be honest here. IMO you don't have a clue what you're talking about or what to look for. Mario and Andre are different types of players than some of their counterparts.

I've seen a lot of receivers smaller in stature than Dre that look like they are hustling more. Diving for balls, crack back blocks always full of energy. Look at Hines ward or Steve smith. Look at plexico burress. Thy are different types of athletes. Smaller guys tend to be able to exert more energy more often.

Look at foster compared to maurice Jones drew or ray rice. It's harder for bigger players to have that same kind of motor for the simeon fact that it takes more energy to move that mass and when you have long legs it's harder to have those choppy steps that give the appearance of a high motor.

These reasons aren't universal and there are exceptions to the rule, but athletes aren't built the same. Some athletes would wear themselves out if they played like some of their smaller players. Doesn't mean they aren't hustling.

Warren sapp and haynesworth when he was good aren't the same type of player. One was a high motor smaller guy and the other was bigger. Still effective, but I guarantee if you compared the two on film you'd say sapp had a higher motor and sometimes haynesworth looked like he was not going hard. Different types of athletes.

Some guys aren't built to generate short area burst/energy. Antonio can generate a lot of burst right off the snap. Mario does not have that same type of burst as Antonio Antonio can't control the play in front of him like Mario. Mario can come off the ball and control what the o lineman can and can't do to him. He doesn't get moved back.

Bit of course you won't take any of this into consideration. Mario sucks in your mind, but luckily you aren't pulling the strings on Kirby.
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Old 12-18-2011   #22
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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Old 12-18-2011   #23
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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The Texans are 7-0 without Mario and the defense clearly doesn't need him...

after Mario left the field during the Baltimore game.
Is this what your re-watch of the Baltimore game revealed?

Please include this in your video montage. TIA
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Old 12-18-2011   #24
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

Rookie Brooks is playing well but I can't buy the claim that our defense is as
good with him instead of Mario, even if Williams is dogging it or taking too many plays off.
But here's the thing, I believe it's likely we won't retain Mario next year because of the monetary cost and cap-space required to do so, but I also believe it's even more likley we will lose Wade Phillips. So if we lose Wade it becomes a big uncertainty about the identity of our new DC and whether we even continue with the brand of defense that Wade operated, all of which will factor into determining the value of Mario to the Texans ?
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Old 12-18-2011   #25
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Why is everyone so intensely in denial?
Because your analysis & conclusion does not line up with what we are seeing. This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
What was so blatantly clear re-watching isn't that Mario doesn't have talent or that he doesn't occasionally make plays. Instead, it is the fact that he is the only player on the field that doesn't rally to the ball, that doesn't have the aggressive and determined attitude the entire defense now has. He jogs past the play, stands around and handfights, etc... most of the time.
Is flat out false. Never happened, don't know what you're looking at.

None of the guys on the team (imo) plays the backside of the run as well as Mario. You said the same crap about Antonio when we were in a 4-3 & the backside was always open for the cutback if they ran away from Antonio, never if they ran away from Mario.

Before the snap, the DL has to "guess" if it's going to be a pass or a run. On a run play, the DEs job is totally different than on a pass play. They have to hold the ends, set it on the play side, contain on the backside. Maybe that's what you're seeing as no effort, other than that, I can't figure you out.
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Old 12-18-2011   #26
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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Why is everyone so intensely in denial? I would understand it if Mario's performance was essential to the success of our team.

The Texans are 7-0 without Mario and the defense clearly doesn't need him.
We're 3-0 without Schaub. 2-1 without Foster. Practically 7-2 without Andre.

What are you saying?
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Old 12-18-2011   #27
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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First, get your facts straight. The Texans are 7-2 without Mario, having lost to Oakland and Baltimore. Second, the Texans are 6-2 without Andre. Guess they don't need him, either?

I'm not knocking what the Texans have done without Mario. Or Andre. Or Schaub. It's been magical. But if you don't think this team would be better with these players, you are mistaken.
By the way, the Texans' pressured Flacco all game. In the Oakland game, the defense played great with the exception of one drive late in the game. Early on, they were amazing (with and without Mario)... stoning the Raiders' offense after the Texans' offense gave Oakland the ball repeatedly in scoring position.

You must be arguing with someone else. I'm not arguing that a good record without someone = we don't need him. The Texans' offense is clearly not better without Andre. Without Mario, the Texans' defense has been awesome!

I have asserted all season that we would be better with Mario but his cap number is way too high. After last night, I changed my mind, not because of their record, but because I saw what the defense was like with him and the tone (or lack of) his play set. He gears it up almost exclusively pre-snap when he thinks the conditions are favorable for him to make a big play. You know why he never beats a double team? because he never tries to... ever! He is content to do the minimum required on every play he's a part of. Meanwhile, guys like Smith and Watt are flying to the ball, running full speed downfield after a play while Mario trots behind.

I see the effort of Smith and Watt. Watt is essentially a white clone of Mario, physically. I certainly can see Watt's effort on the field. Mario's though... nope!
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Old 12-18-2011   #28
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

When you have nothing intelligent to offer...

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Old 12-18-2011   #29
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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I see the effort of Smith and Watt. Watt is essentially a white clone of Mario, physically. I certainly can see Watt's effort on the field. Mario's though... nope!
You should have loved Demarcus Faggins then. that little F2#$er efforted his ass off every game.

I like results. If he's half assing his way to 1 sack a game type numbers, I'm good.
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Old 12-18-2011   #30
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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We're 3-0 without Schaub. 2-1 without Foster. Practically 7-2 without Andre.

What are you saying?
Your numbers prove my point! The Texans defense, without Mario, is so good that we are winning without Andre and with a 3rd string QB. Check the numbers: Texans' offensive production without Schaub and Andre are way down. Texans' defensive production without Mario is way up... up so much that the it's more than enough to account for the loss of offensive production.

Thanks for making my point.
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Old 12-18-2011   #31
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

This is pretty ridiculous. To think that ANY team would be better without a player of Mario's caliber is beyond me.

As we all know, on these boards if you are going to make a statement as bold as these, at least do your research and back it up with facts.

Your logic, which has numerous holes, leads one to believe that the record our team holds without said player is a direct correlation to that players impact. As many have stated prior to me, the absence of Schaub, AJ, Arian, and even D. Manning should open your eyes on how flawed your line of thinking is.

Although we "have" to respect everyone's opinion on these boards I do not respect yours on this topic.

We all know your thoughts on MW but making a thread like this at a time when nothing but greatness is displayed at this current point in the season is ridiculous. Pick a new topic and for once, say something that will permeate good vibes instead of this. There are plenty of other things to whine about (I guess...) other than a player thats not on the field and hasn't been on the field for 8+ weeks.

Get a grip, guy.
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Old 12-18-2011   #32
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Your numbers prove my point! The Texans defense, without Mario, is so good that we are winning without Andre and with a 3rd string QB. Check the numbers: Texans' offensive production without Schaub and Andre are way down. Texans' defensive production without Mario is way up... up so much that the it's more than enough to account for the loss of offensive production.

Thanks for making my point.
So you're saying we don't need Schaub or Andre with the young guys on defense?

I'm saying with Andre, Schaub, & Mario, we'd be Super Bowl favorites.
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Old 12-18-2011   #33
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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Mario played in the Baltimore game. He was injured early on. By the way, the Texans' pressured Flacco all game. In the Oakland game, the defense played great with the exception of one drive late in the game. Early on, they were amazing... stoning the Raiders' offense after the Texans' offense gave Oakland the ball repeatedly in scoring position.

uhhh Dale... I think you have some facts crossed up




Quote:
Houston Texans outside linebacker Mario Williams (90) leaves the game during the first quarter of an NFL football game against the Oakland Raiders at Reliant Stadium, Sunday, Oct. 9, 2011, in Houston.
Photo: Houston Chronicle, Karen Warren / 2011 Houston Chronicle
Quote:
Outside linebacker Mario Williams is the first starting player the Texans have lost for the season.

Williams will be placed on injured reserve and undergo surgery to repair the pectoral muscle he tore while making a team-leading fifth sack in Sunday's 25-20 loss to Oakland at Reliant Stadium.

The Texans (3-2), tied with Tennessee for first place in the AFC South, will play at Baltimore on Sunday without Williams, fullback James Casey (pectoral) and receiver Andre Johnson (hamstring).
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/a...ed-2210530.php
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Old 12-18-2011   #34
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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So you're saying we don't need Schaub or Andre with the young guys on defense?

I'm saying with Andre, Schaub, & Mario, we'd be Super Bowl favorites.
No, I agree with you on Andre and Schaub. We don't need Mario to be Superbowl favorites. In fact, I think the defense is better without him.
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Old 12-18-2011   #35
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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uhhh Dale... I think you have some facts crossed up








http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/a...ed-2210530.php

Yeah, I keep confusing the Oakland and Baltimore game weeks... not sure why.

My point is still the same. The Texans beat the heck out of Flacco. Since the Baltimore game, by the way, the Texans' Marioless defense has given up the following point totals (7, 14, 12, 9, 13, 10, 19).
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Old 12-18-2011   #36
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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uhhh Dale... I think you have some facts crossed up.
Ruh-roh.

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Old 12-18-2011   #37
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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This is pretty ridiculous. To think that ANY team would be better without a player of Mario's caliber is beyond me.

As we all know, on these boards if you are going to make a statement as bold as these, at least do your research and back it up with facts.

Your logic, which has numerous holes, leads one to believe that the record our team holds without said player is a direct correlation to that players impact. As many have stated prior to me, the absence of Schaub, AJ, Arian, and even D. Manning should open your eyes on how flawed your line of thinking is.


Get a grip, guy.
No, that is not my logic. Here's my point... again!:

1. The Texans' PRODUCTION on defense has been better without Mario. There are reasons for this, which I have discussed.

2. His absence has allowed for new leadership and a mentality on defense that has been lacking his entire 6 years here (not because of him, but not in spite of him either)

Offensive production has not improved without Andre or Schaub. So, please stop bringing that up.
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Old 12-18-2011   #38
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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Mario Williams stinks!!

Wow! I know that I have a reputation in this arena. However, I have argued that I wish Mario was healthy because he does make the team better and deeper. I have only been arguing that he isn't worth the money.

Well, I have changed my mind. His absence is one of the reasons this defense has gotten so good. By the way, the Texans are now 7-0 without Mario and the defense is much better.

Mario simply doesn't hustle. He's not physical and only gives good effort when he is put in a situation where he has an advantage and opportunity to make a play. I've never seen a player jog and trot on the field as much as he does. After wathching a physical and aggressive defense the past two months, his laziness really pops on the screen. Those of you who doubt this, go back on watch these games. It is quite infuriating. I am official glad he is on the I.R. Otherwise, our defense would've never turned into what it has. There is no way Rick Smith re-signs this guy! Not gonna happen!

I'll have video by Monday, I hope.
to ASSUME that the defense has gotten better because mario is out is foolish. He was a premier Pass rushing DE, that was transforming to OLB. Hell look at Connor Barwin, how many sacks did he have before mario went out ? Not to mention Mario 9 out of 10 times drew a double team Brooks and barwin dont, Hence the reasons A. Smith had 5 sacks in 5 games when Mario was there, and how many has he had since.

I WILL say this. I think you put JJ. Watt and MArio at DE, A. Smith at NT and barwin and Reed on the edge i think our front 7 would be even scarier. But to say Mario is not good is worth neg repping ! Which i wont do cause i generally like ur opinions, just not this one.
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Old 12-18-2011   #39
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

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to ASSUME that the defense has gotten better because mario is out is foolish. He was a premier Pass rushing DE, that was transforming to OLB. Hell look at Connor Barwin, how many sacks did he have before mario went out ? Not to mention Mario 9 out of 10 times drew a double team Brooks and barwin dont, Hence the reasons A. Smith had 5 sacks in 5 games when Mario was there, and how many has he had since.

I WILL say this. I think you put JJ. Watt and MArio at DE, A. Smith at NT and barwin and Reed on the edge i think our front 7 would be even scarier. But to say Mario is not good is worth neg repping ! Which i wont do cause i generally like ur opinions, just not this one.

This is simply not true. Show me the double-teams. This is pure fiction. Rarely did Mario get double-teamed. Regarding Smith, his drop in production may have something to do with his injured shoulder... just a thought.
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Old 12-18-2011   #40
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Default Re: Just re-watched NO, Pitt, Balt, and...

This thread almost makes me miss the fire kubiak threads. Atleast those threads had facts, logic, stats, intelligence, etc. Basically everything that is missing from this thread.

But the fire kubiak thread would mean we would be losing. I guess this is a better alternative. Pick your torture.

I just dont see how we a person could say after the team installs a new defense after having the worse last year could come up with the conclusion that since Mario is out, and the team winning, we wouldn't be improved with Mario. Then, with the same circumstances surrounding Andre, all of sudden that is different. And this DC wants Mario to play in this system.

I mead, dude, listen to this guy:

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