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Old 12-06-2011   #21
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
I think that was a trick play designed by the D.
defense's don't call trick plays..

it could've been some type of combo coverage or just a heads-up play by kjax, but it wasn't a trick play.
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Old 12-06-2011   #22
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

That flea flicker play was called to get at 1 guy & 1 guy only.......Daniel Manning.

This dude has a history of biting hard on play fakes, jumping routes & just generally too eager coming down field to support the run. Teams around the league know this & we've seen this a few times this year already. It's 1 of the main reasons Chicago wasn't too broken up to let him go.

If you look at that play on NFL network, The Falcons got the exact reaction they thought they would from Manning as he jumped Jones on the slant. Had Ryan been able to set his feet, it was sure to be a TD. & just b/c KJ would've been the 1st guy chasing jones from behind, Everyone on this board would've been making a "KJ Sucks" thread.
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Old 12-06-2011   #23
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by Premier View Post
IF's dont allow you to assume what would have happened..
haha well then you shouldnt read this board. Last season and this season while DEFENDING KJ everything that has been brought up is ifs. If the safety, if the coaches bla bla bla. Get used to it on here bud

that being said i love this message board and everyone on it, even though we may disagree on just about everything.
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Old 12-06-2011   #24
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by silvrhand View Post
KJ sucks.. he should have picked that off, ran over 2 guards, a tackle, and then took it to the house. Only then his TD celebration should be a double backflip into the air and land on the goalpost spiking the ball into the net.


/sigh
You forgot about the part where he sprints out of the stadium and bakes everyone cupcakes in celebration. C'mon, Son!
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Old 12-06-2011   #25
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by pbat488 View Post
defense's don't call trick plays..

it could've been some type of combo coverage or just a heads-up play by kjax, but it wasn't a trick play.
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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
That flea flicker play was called to get at 1 guy & 1 guy only.......Daniel Manning.

This dude has a history of biting hard on play fakes, jumping routes & just generally too eager coming down field to support the run. Teams around the league know this & we've seen this a few times this year already. It's 1 of the main reasons Chicago wasn't too broken up to let him go.

If you look at that play on NFL network, The Falcons got the exact reaction they thought they would from Manning as he jumped Jones on the slant. Had Ryan been able to set his feet, it was sure to be a TD. & just b/c KJ would've been the 1st guy chasing jones from behind, Everyone on this board would've been making a "KJ Sucks" thread.
This is a play that I mentioned in the two-receiver route thread.
Yeah, it was designed to "play" the safety.

The safety may step down to take the crosser or to play the run (depending on the play called) if he's not supposed to stay back and play deep safety.

The off-side CB (Jackson) takes the post.

In this case, the off-side CB (J Jo) came back to take the crosser (either by design or as the last resort.)

We can't be exactly sure of the D call, but my guess is that the safety came down because the run "was supposed to be" up the middle (while JJo takes on the crosser as it turned out on this play.)

If the fake run went to the outside, JJo would come up while the safety stays with the crosser.
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Old 12-06-2011   #26
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
This is a play that I mentioned in the two-receiver route thread.
Yeah, it was designed to "play" the safety.

The safety may step down to take the crosser or to play the run (depending on the play called) if he's not supposed to stay back and play deep safety.

The off-side CB (Jackson) takes the post.

In this case, the off-side CB (J Jo) came back to take the crosser (either by design or as the last resort.)

We can't be exactly sure of the D call, but my guess is that the safety came down because the run "was supposed to be" up the middle (while JJo takes on the crosser as it turned out on this play.)

If the fake run went to the outside, JJo would come up while the safety stays with the crosser.
Hey John.......... Love ya ma brother, but let's get to bidness.

I suggested that if the RB didn't choke the pitch back to Ryan that that would've been an easy TD for the ATL.. (BTW, I haf a bunch of newbies that tried to try and ride me for my thoughts)............Of course I I give a rats ass about their opinions BUT had a few new folks that suggested I was full of shite, because of course it didn't happen..

My point was this; Should my toe hurt because I stubbed it??
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Old 12-06-2011   #27
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Hey John.......... Love ya ma brother, but let's get to bidness.

I suggested that if the RB didn't choke the pitch back to Ryan that that would've been an easy TD for the ATL.. (BTW, I haf a bunch of newbies that tried to try and ride me for my thoughts)............Of course I I give a rats ass about their opinions BUT had a few new folks that suggested I was full of shite, because of course it didn't happen..

My point was this; Should my toe hurt because I stubbed it??
You have a very valid point.
That is if the offense called for a skinny post.
It would make for a more difficult catch but if it was a great throw and a great catch, it has a strong possibility for a TD.

However, the way the ball was thrown suggested a post route (or "sight-adjusted" post route).
Ryans was aiming for inside the hashmarks.
Any throw straight down the middle obviously is the easiest one for the QB.

The receiver had "semi-faked" a run block, so when he actually started his route, he was pretty much on the hashmarks.
He veered slightly to the outside so he can get ready to adjust to either throw the QB would make.

The way the 2-man route was designed, it has to take into account the defensive look. (On the one hand, the defense doesn't know where deep receiver will go.) On the other hand, the offense doesn't know (at the outset) whether the D will drop into cover 3, or one of the safety will stay deep in the middle while the CBs play man, or both safeties stayed over the top in cover 2, or the D will turn into an inverted cover 2, etc.

For one reason or another, what I've seen over and over again is either a skinny post or a post route for the deep receiver.

And since the Texans gave a cover 2 look at the outset, it's probably easiest for the QB/receiver to get in sync with a post route.

The best case of this scenario for the Falcons, IMO, is for the receiver to beat out Jackson at the ball in the middle.
It's always a possibility, but I don't think it would be an easy TD.
The next possibility is a catch and a tackle.
More likely, however, again IMO, is an incompletion.
And the interception is still in the card simply because the QB didn't expect this D-call.
I can't put a percentage point to any of those scenarios with any authority like 70/30 or anything of the sort!

The Falcons knows Wade's defense pretty thoroughly, but at the same time, our backends vary and disguise coverage just as well; it becomes a guessing game for the Offense and a chess match that was fun (for me) to watch.
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Old 12-07-2011   #28
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Hey John.......... Love ya ma brother, but let's get to bidness.

I suggested that if the RB didn't choke the pitch back to Ryan that that would've been an easy TD for the ATL.. (BTW, I haf a bunch of newbies that tried to try and ride me for my thoughts)............Of course I I give a rats ass about their opinions BUT had a few new folks that suggested I was full of shite, because of course it didn't happen..

My point was this; Should my toe hurt because I stubbed it??
For the most part, I think you're right. Most of the Houston secondary bit on the flea flicker. Had Ryan got the ball back in time, or had Ryan been able to step into that throw, that would have been a sure 6.

However our DL was getting penetration, which caused the hesitation by Turner, for all we know he may have had the option to keep it & continue to run up-field if he didn't like what he saw.

& iirc Ryan got smacked as he released the ball which is the main reason the ball was under-thrown.
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Old 12-07-2011   #29
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
This is a play that I mentioned in the two-receiver route thread.
Yeah, it was designed to "play" the safety.

The safety may step down to take the crosser or to play the run (depending on the play called) if he's not supposed to stay back and play deep safety.

The off-side CB (Jackson) takes the post.

In this case, the off-side CB (J Jo) came back to take the crosser (either by design or as the last resort.)

We can't be exactly sure of the D call, but my guess is that the safety came down because the run "was supposed to be" up the middle (while JJo takes on the crosser as it turned out on this play.)

If the fake run went to the outside, JJo would come up while the safety stays with the crosser.
i'm unaware of any secondary coverage scheme that has both safeties coming down in the box like Quinn & Manning did on that play.

I'm also unaware of any secondary coverage that calls for a cb to come damn near clear across the field to cover a deep area of the field...which is what KJ did on this particular play when he came from way outside the right hash mark to just inside the left hash mark to make the play. Crazy coverage disguises like that are reserved for special players & athletes like Troy Polamalu & Ed Reed...which noone in our secondary is even close to.

Its pretty clear to me what the falcons were trying to do with that play & that's take advantage of both of our safeties aggressiveness by showing a pro-running formation (evidenced by having the 2 WR's & the TE all in tight) & reinforcing that by faking a run with Turner & then having your primary target (White) fake a block down field. & the play would've worked like a charm too b/c everyone back there bit on the fake run........except for KJ.

If KJ bites on the flea flicker like everyone else in the secondary did, he doesn't make it back there to make the pick regardless of how badly Ryan throws it. We knocked him all last year for his bad play but this is 1 play that he deserves props for b/c It was just simply a great play by the kid.

As far as what T-skyss is saying, Ryan was about to be smacked but he could've made a better throw if he stands in their like a man, accepts his fate & lays into the throw..Instead he pulled a blaine Gabbert & faded before he got hit. There's only a few qb's in the league who can do that & still get enough arm strength on the ball to get it out there & he ain't 1 of them.
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Old 12-08-2011   #30
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Default Re: KJ Flea Flicker INT

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
i'm unaware of any secondary coverage scheme that has both safeties coming down in the box like Quinn & Manning did on that play.
Actually there are several.

Cover Zero is one.

Then we have the inverted cover two.
Some variations are:

- the 54 inverted (in which both CBs actually line up deeper than the safeties).

- the 52 inverted (with the safeties come down to play the run and usually drop to the flat upon reading pass - The CBs took over the deep 1/2 just the same as in the 54). Some sees the 52 inverted as a 34 with 1/4 look in the secondary so that the safeties can come down to play the run.

- Cover 2 Robber (with a safety (or both) dropping underneath of a receiver who already has a corner covering over top of him – as long as he is not needed to cover any other vertical threat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I'm also unaware of any secondary coverage that calls for a cb to come damn near clear across the field to cover a deep area of the field...which is what KJ did on this particular play when he came from way outside the right hash mark to just inside the left hash mark to make the play. Crazy coverage disguises like that are reserved for special players & athletes like Troy Polamalu & Ed Reed...which noone in our secondary is even close to.


The drop-kick call that I mentioned is also based the same concept of the inverted cover 2.

- SS (Quin) comes down to play the run or the TE;

- FS (Manning) does the same but he takes on the crosser if he reads pass.
I think this is what we had on, only Manning didn't read pass soon enough.

- Off-side CB (Jackson) takes the post;

- On-side CB (JJo) cuts off the crosser as the backup in case the FS failed his read.

However, it could be that Manning was free to go as he knows JJo and KJ can take care of the receivers as described above (in this case, nobody messed up).
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