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Old 12-06-2011   #81
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
The ideal - yet highly improbable - situation would have been to let Capers stay to build/run the defense and bring Kubiak in to build a solid offense.
That may have been ideal but (a) it never happens that way and (b) Capers wasn't looking like such a defensive guru at that point having failed to build a decent D in his time as HC.
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Old 12-06-2011   #82
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post

Belichick probably wins more games, but I think any coach coming into that situation would have had growing pains. Especially any first time head coach on any level.
What made Kubiak's tenure here all the more difficult (I think) is that he was also the General Manager & VP of football operations. Way too much with Kubiak's resume coming in. Bellichick was much more prepared for that role when he got to New England (minus the VP of football operations) after his stint in Cleveland.

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Kubiak didn't have a strong first 5 years here. He should have been canned and most of you guys that have defended him over and over have at least admitted that he should have been fired after year 4 and year 5. Going 6-10 in your 6th season was terrible.
  1. 2006 We finish 6-10
  2. 2007 We finish 8-8
  3. 2008 We finish 8-8
  4. 2009 We finish 9-7
  5. 2010 We finish 6-10
  6. 2011 we'll finish with 9 or more wins

I thought he did a fine job, taking a 2-14 failed expansion team to 6-10 his first season. I think we over achieved in 2007 to finish 8-8. I thought 2008's 8-8 was about right.. probably should have been 10-6, but I wasn't going to fire him for that.

2009, I thought we were on our way, 9-7 which should have got us a play-off berth.

2010, I couldn't make sense of what I had just seen. Either Kubiak or Rick Smith should have been gone. Gary Kubiak was the face of the Texans & if I had to chose, it would have been him.

But this is year 6.

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This year the Texans have over achieved though mainly due to Wade's defense, but they're still playing very well so talks about Kubiak should cease for the year at least.
The thing I don't understand, is if you think the Texans are over achieving now, how can you possibly have expected the team to do better in years past?

The offense has always (relatively speaking) done what it takes to give us a chance to win. The defense is finally holding up it's end of the bargain. While "Wade's defense" is the biggest difference, they have rarely had to play from behind.

The offense is winning the T.O.P. battle every week & the offense is not turning the ball over. The defense is great, but this is a team thing. Take away the offense, & you're looking at Jacksonville west.
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Old 12-06-2011   #83
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
The AFC South belongs to the Houston Texans until further notice.
Let's not count the chickens before the eggs hatch.

While I am as optimistic as the next guy that the Texans will take the AFC South this season, it still has to actually happen before we can begin to claim that it's ours until further notice.

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I KNOW Phillips is a bad HC and I'm fairly certain Kubes is average at best.
Wade is 82-59 as a head coach for his career, a far greater winning percentage than Gary (46-46). The biggest knock on Wade as a HC was not being able to win a playoff game, but he finally got that monkey off his back in Dallas.

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
You are correct, sir.

It's the difference between flipping a house that just needs a some paint and new carpet to make it sellable to one that has been burned down to the foundation and you have to rebuild it from the slab up to make it sellable.

Which do you think is the greater accomplishment? Which one required more work?
The thing with this award is that you have to vote in a vacuum. You cannot take into account the previous 5 seasons. You have to look at what the head coach has accomplished in the 2011 season, which started after the Super Bowl.

If you compare teams, the Texans had far greater talent than the 49ers, and with the stability on offense of a system that's been installed for five years, you have to take into account that Harbaugh got this team to 10 wins without the benefit of an off-season.

At this point, Kubiak has only achieved a 9 win season for sure. We should wait to see how the next four games play out, because if he loses the next four and misses the playoffs, then he's not even in the conversation for CotY.

That being said, a 13-3 record and top seed in the AFC would make me argue for Kubiak in every way possible.
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Old 12-06-2011   #84
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
I have to give credit where it's due this year, and I've wanted Gary to make me say this for years. Finally there has been a regular season that he can hang his hat on. I do realize that it's been mainly due to Wade Phillips, but he is still the HC of this team and that is who the award goes to. I'd take Harbaugh first, but the Niners haven't dealt with anything close to what the Texans have injury wise and we're still on a winning streak. We're over achieving and I like it.
I don't know...are we over achieving, or do we finally have the coaching to match our talent. I've always thought, with a few exceptions, we've had some very talented players. Everything just seem to have culminated this year inspite of all the injuries. I had some child-like excitement talking about this team Monday. For fans that have been on board since '02, this is super sweet right now!
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Old 12-06-2011   #85
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Dick LeBeau
Greg Williams
Dom Capers (on his better days)
Rex Ryan (although I think he benefitted from HoF personnel in Balt.)

Those guys weren't going to be let go of the teams that had them under contract just to go take a lateral - i.e., simply move to a better paying DC job.
Greg Williams was looking for a job & landed one in New Orleans. The owner & Gm weren't into his asking price & Peyton ponied up the money out of his own contract.

Then they won a Super Bowl.
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Old 12-06-2011   #86
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
The thing with this award is that you have to vote in a vacuum. You cannot take into account the previous 5 seasons. You have to look at what the head coach has accomplished in the 2011 season, which started after the Super Bowl.

If you compare teams, the Texans had far greater talent than the 49ers, and with the stability on offense of a system that's been installed for five years, you have to take into account that Harbaugh got this team to 10 wins without the benefit of an off-season.

At this point, Kubiak has only achieved a 9 win season for sure. We should wait to see how the next four games play out, because if he loses the next four and misses the playoffs, then he's not even in the conversation for CotY.

That being said, a 13-3 record and top seed in the AFC would make me argue for Kubiak in every way possible.
OK, my problem here is you talk about the vacuum, and then apparently the power went out and the vacuum wasn't working anymore...lol. You can't talk about a system that's been in place for 5 years ;D
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Old 12-06-2011   #87
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
First let's say that I agree with you that the voters will see it that way.

I agree with this, but they also needed talent. Had someone (Casserly) been in Houston acquiring talent the way San Fran has in the last 5/6 years, then it would have been the same.

I think (iirc) the same was said about Josh McDaniels.... for a little while.

I don't think Kubiak should be considered. Bob should call all the voters & pay them to take Kubiak off the ballot.

2008? 2009 I believe, but 2008 we were supposed to win the division? A wild card maybe, but the division in 2008? I'm not buying it.



I think this is what he's saying. The 49ers are the most talented team in that division.... I don't know if that was all that obvious before the season started, but that's his argument.

The Cardinals..... I thought Kolb was going to do something special (homerism.... maybe). St Louis, yeah, I'm shocked they are as bad as they are. Really. Seattle, I thought they would be at the bottom of the pile.

But I had no idea the AFC South was going to be this bad either.... so
And pretend for a second that we do end up going to the big show. Will it be like how everyone tries to downplay the Rockets chips becasue MJ only played the last half of the second one? I mean, there were still 27 other teams in the league at that time were there not? Will they be saying, had Peyton not been injured it would be different? Thing is, if Peyton was playing, while the Colts would be improved, I don't think they are beating us this year. I think they would have been somewhere around the Titans...with our defense now, I don't think any rabbits would have been pulled out of the hat...but maybe, you never know.
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Old 12-06-2011   #88
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
And for the record, if McCarthy finishes up 16-0, that's Coach of the Year worthy IMHO. And not simply because they haven't lost but it's who they've beaten along the way.

Saints - in prime time.
Bears - before they lost their QB
Giants - took their best shot and got the win
Falcons - meh, but they are still in the playoff hunt
Lions - the famous Suh STOMP! (think Hulk Smash!!) game on turkey day

And, in being undefeated AND the reigning champs, they're taking everyone's best shot.

So, if they survive to go 16-0, McCarthy would get my vote for CotY.
That's exactly why McCarthy is #2 on my list after Harbaugh at #1.

Nuff said.
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Old 12-06-2011   #89
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

You guys are making me want to vote for McCarthy now.
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Old 12-06-2011   #90
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
That may have been ideal but (a) it never happens that way and (b) Capers wasn't looking like such a defensive guru at that point having failed to build a decent D in his time as HC.
So you're saying any success the 2002-2005 Texans had was because of our offense??

You'll have to explain that one to me.

Anyway, my point in proposing that Kubiak/Capers matchup is that with a decent-to-good offense to match Capers' defense, we would have made much more progress. Seems to have worked in Green Bay.
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Old 12-06-2011   #91
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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That's exactly why McCarthy is #2 on my list after Harbaugh at #1.

Nuff said.
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Old 12-06-2011   #92
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
So you're saying any success the 2002-2005 Texans had was because of our offense??

You'll have to explain that one to me.

Anyway, my point in proposing that Kubiak/Capers matchup is that with a decent-to-good offense to match Capers' defense, we would have made much more progress. Seems to have worked in Green Bay.
I won't put words in CAK's mouth, but I will say that when the previous 3 years your defense finished ranked 23rd, 31st, and 24th, you don't invite the guy in charge of everything to stick around as DC.

Contrast that to the (still ridiculous) discussion of having Kubes stick around as OC if he'd been fired after the 2010 season. That's asking a guy who's last three offenses had finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd to stay.
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Old 12-06-2011   #93
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I won't put words in CAK's mouth, but I will say that when the previous 3 years your defense finished ranked 23rd, 31st, and 24th, you don't invite the guy in charge of everything to stick around as DC.

Contrast that to the (still ridiculous) discussion of having Kubes stick around as OC if he'd been fired after the 2010 season. That's asking a guy who's last three offenses had finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd to stay.
point taken...

...although the Colts won a Super Bowl with a 20-something ranked defense. So did the Saints. When Eli and the Giants beat the undefeated Pats their defense was ranked 17th.

OBTW, I'm talking points allowed, not yards. In my mind, keeping folks off the scoreboard is way more important than how many yards are allowed ...or rather not allowed.
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Old 12-06-2011   #94
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

Edit: duplicate post
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Old 12-06-2011   #95
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
So you're saying any success the 2002-2005 Texans had was because of our offense??

You'll have to explain that one to me.
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I won't put words in CAK's mouth, but I will say that when the previous 3 years your defense finished ranked 23rd, 31st, and 24th, you don't invite the guy in charge of everything to stick around as DC.

Contrast that to the (still ridiculous) discussion of having Kubes stick around as OC if he'd been fired after the 2010 season. That's asking a guy who's last three offenses had finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd to stay.
Exactly. The Texans cracked the top half of the league (barely at 15) one time under Capers. Capers as a HC was as bass ackwards as could be. He ceded his area of expertise over to Fangio and then over controlled the offense resulting in both units sucking. I would have respected him a lot more if he had built a crushing D and told the O "OK go out and figure out a way to grind out 17 points and not turn the ball over."
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Old 12-06-2011   #96
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

Hey, I'm just impressed that someone used "Whether" correctly. I do love the Queen's English when it's properly used. I so rarely get to experience that phenomena in a public school.
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Old 12-06-2011   #97
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
So you're saying any success the 2002-2005 Texans had was because of our offense??

You'll have to explain that one to me.

Anyway, my point in proposing that Kubiak/Capers matchup is that with a decent-to-good offense to match Capers' defense, we would have made much more progress. Seems to have worked in Green Bay.
I understand what you're saying, but we never had a top 10 defense, at least not on paper.

I can't remember that far back.

The stats may be misleading, but it's easier for McNair to make that argument with the stats to back him up.

Like last year, I think the stats were very misleading. If we truly had a top 5 (10) offense, our defense would have never seen the field, ala Green Bay (31), New England (32), & New Orleans (27) this year. They weren't crying, "You can't expect the offense to score 30 points a game." They were screaming, "Try to keep up Beetchass!!"

.
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Old 12-06-2011   #98
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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
This is Wade's team. It is Wade's season. He did this.

However, I have been impressed with how Kubiak has handled the QB disaster. He doesn't appear to be panicking, and seems to be methodically, and calmly, pushing ahead, doing what he has to do to win. Kubiak seems confident.

But, guess why he's confident? Because we have a solid defense. Guess who is in charge of that?

Get it?
yeh but u can't just say when the team does bad it is all Kubes and when they do good it is all wade. I think that with all the injuries to key starters on O u have to give some credit to Kubes. wade does not coach the O and other than the past two weeks the O has done very well. Considering the circumstances I would say they have even done well the past two weeks. That is not to say that the D does not deserve it's credit but u got to give Kubes his too...
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Old 12-06-2011   #99
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Exactly. The Texans cracked the top half of the league (barely at 15) one time under Capers. Capers as a HC was as bass ackwards as could be. He ceded his area of expertise over to Fangio and then over controlled the offense resulting in both units sucking. I would have respected him a lot more if he had built a crushing D and told the O "OK go out and figure out a way to grind out 17 points and not turn the ball over."
Fangio currently has the 4th ranked defense in the NFL. 1st in points allowed. (FYI we're #2).

I don't think ceding control to Fangio was the problem.
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Old 12-06-2011   #100
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by 80tothezone View Post
yeh but u can't just say when the team does bad it is all Kubes and when they do good it is all wade. I think that with all the injuries to key starters on O u have to give some credit to Kubes. wade does not coach the O and other than the past two weeks the O has done very well. Considering the circumstances I would say they have even done well the past two weeks. That is not to say that the D does not deserve it's credit but u got to give Kubes his too...
The offense is made up of Andre Johnson & a bunch of other guys.

Foster: UDFA
Brisiel: UDFA
Schaub: 3rd round pick
Walter: ??
Brown: 1st round pick
Myers: got him for a 6th
Smith: Journeyman
OD: 3rd round

He's made spam look & taste like filet mignon.
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