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Old 12-05-2011   #41
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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wow...weren't you just bustin' my balls a couple of days ago for trying to remain optimistic in spite of "objective analysis"? just yanking your chain, man.

I think Harbaugh should get it for a one year turnaround. Kubiak has been building this team for 6 years, and if we are honest about it, he's lucky that our owner has the loyalty of a dog and the patience of a cat....that, and he listens to the advice of one Oail Andrew "Bum" Phillips about his genius son.

I do think Kubiak has done a good job this year, though, and it appears that learning on the job has paid off. His skill at taking care of the QB position has been invaluable, and he certainly deserves a lot of credit for it.
Well that's why I've stated that we're overachieving right now. I picked us to lose yesterday, and we found a way to win despite our circumstances and losing AJ once again. I still don't like our chances in the post season, but whatever we get I'll be pretty happy with the season over all. We just keep having to deal with blow after blow injury wise. Right after Yates starts getting a little confidence, he loses AJ AGAIN!! This is season is just unreal as far as injuries go.
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Old 12-05-2011   #42
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Well that's why I've stated that we're overachieving right now. I picked us to lose yesterday, and we found a way to win despite our circumstances and losing AJ once again. I still don't like our chances in the post season, but whatever we get I'll be pretty happy with the season over all. We just keep having to deal with blow after blow injury wise. Right after Yates starts getting a little confidence, he loses AJ AGAIN!! This is season is just unreal as far as injuries go.
It is unreal to see these injuries to our best players but still win games.

It's great to see them working and believing as a team. They refuse to lose, and now on 6-in-a-row, I think momentum carries and they wrap up the franchise's first division title in the next couple of weeks. Then it's just playing for position it the playoffs.

I'm not counting them out of the playoffs, at least for the first game at Reliant. With that defense and homefield advantage with the crowd, I think they are capable of beating just about any team.
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Old 12-05-2011   #43
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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I think Harbaugh should get it for a one year turnaround. Kubiak has been building this team for 6 years, and if we are honest about it, he's lucky that our owner has the loyalty of a dog and the patience of a cat....that, and he listens to the advice of one Oail Andrew "Bum" Phillips about his genius son.

I do think Kubiak has done a good job this year, though, and it appears that learning on the job has paid off. His skill at taking care of the QB position has been invaluable, and he certainly deserves a lot of credit for it.
In all honesty, there isn't much difference between the turnaround going on in San Francisco & the turnaround going on here. The biggest difference is that Harbough wasn't their for the first 6 years.

Just like us, they've been adding talent & trying to change the losing culture. While it looks good in San Francisco, we don't know what they are going to look like next year.

We have no clue what these Texans are going to look like either, but I'm pretty sure the team is not going to quit on Gary Kubiak. They've had some highs & lows, missed players had some bad apples..... & they're still playing their hearts out.

I don't know what's going to happen in San Francisco when they experience a two game losing streak, or a Frank Gore misses three games... or a Patrick Willis for that matter.

Winning is great & it's the end-all-be-all of the NFL, but there's a million things that goes into winning one game & the HC's job is to make it all work.

& While I thought Kubiak had over-stayed his welcome... while I thought he should have been let go before this season started, I actually hope more teams will tough it out with "good" coaches in the future.
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Old 12-05-2011   #44
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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It is unreal to see these injuries to our best players but still win games.

It's great to see them working and believing as a team. They refuse to lose, and now on 6-in-a-row, I think momentum carries and they wrap up the franchise's first division title in the next couple of weeks. Then it's just playing for position it the playoffs.

I'm not counting them out of the playoffs, at least for the first game at Reliant. With that defense and homefield advantage with the crowd, I think they are capable of beating just about any team.
Yeah, they're playing with a strong chip on their shoulder finally, and it's fun to watch. I love this constant pressure from these young guys, and it's what I've wanted to see out of Mario for years as a pass rusher. These young guys are motors that just don't stop. If we get in a close game, no doubt we can pull out a win against possibly anyone. Either way, I'll just be along for the ride and won't expect much as far as the playoffs go. I'll just take each game as they come and enjoy the first real football team this franchise has put together that we've all been waiting for going on ten years now.
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Old 12-05-2011   #45
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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I still obviously want us to win the division. But if somehow the Texans have an extended brain fart and the Titans find a crazy way to win the rest of their games and edge us out for the title...I won't be mad. I won't. I won't be on here cursing Kubiak or McNair. Everyone has done their jobs this season, and they've answered the bell every round.
Injuries & all that... I can't give into the "this is already a success" I might give him a pass if we don't finish winning the division, but it's not going to change my mind about Gary's ability to get us to the Championship game.

If we get two more wins.... 11 wins with what we've got here, then I'll start leaning that way. But we built ourselves a pretty good lead with the majority of the team intact. Losing the QB & the second string QB is the only reason I've lowered the bar (from AFC Champs).

I'm not pulling 11 wins out of my butt or anything, that's what we need to win this division if Tennessee takes care of business & if you go back you'll see I've been saying Tennessee is capable of winning 10 games just as easily as we are (they had practically the same schedule).

If it comes down to Jan 1, Tenn@Hou & we lose that game, I personally would prefer another head coach in 2012.

Is that too harsh? Unrealistic?

I don't think so. Indy & Jacksonville laid down & Tennessee without Chris Johnson (even though he was there) is similar to us with our various injury issues.

But Tennessee won't win 10 games? If they beat NO, they'll be on track to win 11. Jan 1 will become a must win for us if we don't win two before then. Heck, that means we have got to win at least 1 game before Jan 1.

We're on a role now & I can't imagine not winning two more games.

But this is far from over.
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Old 12-05-2011   #46
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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wow...weren't you just bustin' my balls a couple of days ago for trying to remain optimistic in spite of "objective analysis"? just yanking your chain, man.

I think Harbaugh should get it for a one year turnaround. Kubiak has been building this team for 6 years, and if we are honest about it, he's lucky that our owner has the loyalty of a dog and the patience of a cat....that, and he listens to the advice of one Oail Andrew "Bum" Phillips about his genius son.

I do think Kubiak has done a good job this year, though, and it appears that learning on the job has paid off. His skill at taking care of the QB position has been invaluable, and he certainly deserves a lot of credit for it.
Did you check the respective records?
Last year the niners were 6-10.
The year before they were 8-8.
Same as us.

The current Niner team has been in the works since 2005 when they drafted Frank Gore and Alex Smith. The next year, 2006, they added Vernon Davis; their pro bowl TE. The next year, 2007, they got Patrick Willis and Joe Staley - one pro bowler and one solid starter.

I could go on. But the point is, the current Niner team was in the works starting in 2005 a year before Kubiak got here.

The only difference is that all the talking heads (and most likely us fans too) wrote off the Niners because they had been mediocre for the past who-knows-how-long plus everyone believed Alex Smith was a bust.

With Manning out, everyone kind of expected us to take over the division because we were the lesser of the other three evils. Rookie QB in Jagsland. Old and thought to be washed up QB in Tennessee.

Harbaugh has done a good job but he had some good tools in place to work with. He appears to have worked a miracle until you take a closer look and see he inherited a pretty decent team. Singletary instilled pride. All Harbaugh had to do was turn Alex Smith into a game manager and let Frank Gore and Vernon Davis make enough plays to carry the offensive load.

Let me put it this way; Harbaugh was in charge of the 2011 draft right? Are any of the guys that HE PICKED making a significant impact? I can't think of one.
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Old 12-05-2011   #47
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Let me put it this way; Harbaugh was in charge of the 2011 draft right? Are any of the guys that HE PICKED making a significant impact? I can't think of one.
So he took existing players, and just by his own force of will, made them play at a level that far exceeded anyone's expectations and their own history?

Sounds like a coach of the year candidate to me!

BTW, I'm not down on Kubiak. But let's be honest: he's only coaching half the team now.
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Old 12-05-2011   #48
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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eh..... IMO, the 49ers are a 12-4 team like the 2010 Bucs were a 10-6 team. The only impressive win they have so far....... the Giants. We'll see how far they fall next year.

By the same token, injuries or not, I'm taking the 9-3 Texans with a grain of salt. Kubiak doesn't need to be considered for coach of the year until we win a couple of play-off games (one of them will probably be against Tebow).

But this is a regular season award.... & they both should be in the conversation.
They have wins @Cincy, @Detroit, NYG for quality wins. Losses @Balt and vs Dallas. Still a good resume overall. Texans quality wins are vs Steelers, @ Tenn, vs Atlanta. Rather comparable in general, but the big difference is that Harbaugh is doing it as a rookie coach and Kubiak has taken 6 years go get there. It's the same reason I wouldn't even nominate Marvin Lewis for the award because he's been in Cincy so long it's pointless to say 'good job on finally having a winning season'.

If the Packers go 16-0 though, I think you have to give it to McCarthy. That's just amazing for any team to do, and it takes tremendous coaching and talent on the field to be perfect for that many games.
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Old 12-05-2011   #49
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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If the Packers go 16-0 though, I think you have to give it to McCarthy. That's just amazing for any team to do, and it takes tremendous coaching and talent on the field to be perfect for that many games.
That's a great point, especially considering they've got that target on their back as SB champions this season.
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Old 12-05-2011   #50
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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They have wins @Cincy, @Detroit, NYG for quality wins. Losses @Balt and vs Dallas. Still a good resume overall. Texans quality wins are vs Steelers, @ Tenn, vs Atlanta. Rather comparable in general, but the big difference is that Harbaugh is doing it as a rookie coach and Kubiak has taken 6 years go get there. It's the same reason I wouldn't even nominate Marvin Lewis for the award because he's been in Cincy so long it's pointless to say 'good job on finally having a winning season'.

If the Packers go 16-0 though, I think you have to give it to McCarthy. That's just amazing for any team to do, and it takes tremendous coaching and talent on the field to be perfect for that many games.
Well, I think a lot of people ignore that it did not take Kubiak 6 years to get a winning season. It took him 4 years to get a winning season after taking over a broken expansion team. Two years after that, & we are here.

If you're telling me Jim Harbaugh could've taken over the 2006 Texans & had them at 10-1 that year, I'm calling BS. & that's the point I (& I believe ObsiWan) am trying to make.

I think.
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Old 12-05-2011   #51
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

I'd have to give it to Jim Harbaugh simply b/c he's a rookie HC and he's turned that team COMPLETELY around in just 1 year...........with a shortened offseason to boot.........and he's done it all with Alex Smith at qb.

Let's put that into perspective for a sec. That's like Kubiak coming in 6 years ago & being able to take us to a 10-2 record with David freakin Carr...That's a monumental feat.
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Old 12-05-2011   #52
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Well, I think a lot of people ignore that it did not take Kubiak 6 years to get a winning season. It took him 4 years to get a winning season after taking over a broken expansion team. Two years after that, & we are here.

If you're telling me Jim Harbaugh could've taken over the 2006 Texans & had them at 10-1 that year, I'm calling BS. & that's the point I (& I believe ObsiWan) am trying to make.

I think.
I don't think Harbaugh would have turned around the Texans in a year. I think they were in such bad shape that no coach was going to perform that miracle. You don't go from 2-14 and that losing atmosphere to a winning franchise overnight.

But, I do think Harbaugh would have had this team in the playoffs by year 3.

I think it's somewhat comparable to what Jim Schwartz has been able to do with an 0-16 franchise. His first year was a struggle to get two wins, and now they are established to be potential contenders two years later.
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Old 12-05-2011   #53
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Well, I think a lot of people ignore that it did not take Kubiak 6 years to get a winning season. It took him 4 years to get a winning season after taking over a broken expansion team. Two years after that, & we are here.

If you're telling me Jim Harbaugh could've taken over the 2006 Texans & had them at 10-1 that year, I'm calling BS. & that's the point I (& I believe ObsiWan) am trying to make.

I think.
I agree with this.

I've been a kub fan up until last year. I just felt like enough was enough. I didn't have any real reason that I wanted him gone other than the fact that he wasn't winning.

But overall I think kubiak has provided great value to this franchise.
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Old 12-05-2011   #54
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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wow...weren't you just bustin' my balls a couple of days ago for trying to remain optimistic in spite of "objective analysis"? just yanking your chain, man.

I think Harbaugh should get it for a one year turnaround. Kubiak has been building this team for 6 years, and if we are honest about it, he's lucky that our owner has the loyalty of a dog and the patience of a cat....that, and he listens to the advice of one Oail Andrew "Bum" Phillips about his genius son.

I do think Kubiak has done a good job this year, though, and it appears that learning on the job has paid off. His skill at taking care of the QB position has been invaluable, and he certainly deserves a lot of credit for it.
Great post and it pretty much sums up what I think about the whole situation.
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Old 12-05-2011   #55
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If we have everyone healthy, who are you taking, texans or niners in a head to head?

Homerism aside. (well as best you can)

I know that coty doesn't go to the best team, but my point is that I don't think the niners record accurately reflects how good that team is whereas the packers undefeated record about sums it up IMO.

Niners division is trash.

Kubiak took over a terrible team in a division that was on fire. At the time probably the best division in football. Then he had to compete against maybe the best qb of all time.

Who is the niners toughest competition in their division? Probably themselves in practice.

I think if kubiak could have come into a division like that he would have made the play offs long ago.

Anyone remember pre season when most of the team was relatively healthy? We were still figuring our defense out and we embarrassed them. I know it was pre season, but we simply outclassed them.

When I think about coty I think about which coach has done the most outstanding job considering all circumstances. Yes harbaugh is up there. But IMO kubiak and McCarthy have a slight edge considering one coach has his team undefeated and the other coach has kept his team winning despite multiple injuries to key players.
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Old 12-05-2011   #56
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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So he took existing players, and just by his own force of will, made them play at a level that far exceeded anyone's expectations and their own history?

Sounds like a coach of the year candidate to me!

BTW, I'm not down on Kubiak. But let's be honest: he's only coaching half the team now.
First, "their own history" isn't that different from ours. I thought I pointed that out before. Last year both teams were 6-10. The year before I think we were 9-7 and they were 8-8 (yes, I fixed that). In 2008 they were 7-9 and we were 8-8. This year they are 10-2 with no significant injuries and we're 9-3 with, as you pointed out, half the team gone. It's not like the Niners went from 0-16 to 10-2. They made the same progress from last year to this, that we did, with a weaker schedule.

Secondly, when you look closer, the "expectations" should have been for the Niners to win that division running away. They have the best talent overall. At the skilled positions they have Gore, V.Davis, Crabtree, Tedd Ginn, Jr. and Braylon Edwards (okay he might be a minus). And did I mention that their O-line has three 1st rd picks in Staley, Iupati, and Anthony Davis and a high 2nd round in Chilo Rachal (#39 overall).

My point is that Harbaugh inherited plenty of talent. If expectations for the Niners were low, it's because the talking heads didn't do their homework.

I'm thinking that, like Houston, SF was the most talented team in a shakey division. Just like Kubiak was expected to capture with a Manning-less AFC South, Harbaugh should have been expected to win a weak NFC West.

Harbaugh's doing what he should be doing and that just doesn't scream "Advantage Harbaugh" to me.
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Old 12-05-2011   #57
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

The 49ers have not had a winning record since 2002, the first year that the Texans were in the league.

They had a losing culture that no amount of talent was going to overcome. They needed leadership, someone to instill something deeper into the collective mindset.

Many folks have argued about regime change here Houston. Many of the anti-change crowd indicated that a new head coach would not automatically make a difference, that it takes time to accrue talent and a staff, implement schemes, and fill the bench.

Heck, even Bob McNair himself stated that changing head coaches is "traumatic" as a way to support his decision to keep Kubiak.

Harbaugh just proved all of that wrong, and did it without the benefit of an off-season.

I am not arguing that Kubiak should not be considered. But if you are honest about your analysis, Harbaugh did this season what Kubiak was supposed to do (and predicted to do) in 2008, 2009, 2010.

NOBODY expected the 49ers to be 10-2 and clinch a playoff spot in week 12 (a full decade since their last appearance).

Harbaugh 1 year > Kubiak 6 years. This is how voters will see it.

p.s. I'm not even a fan of Jim Harbaugh, and Kubiak is my coach. I'd really like to see McCarthy get it for 16-0 and then lose to the Texans in the Super Bowl.
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Old 12-05-2011   #58
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
The 49ers have not had a winning record since 2002, the first year that the Texans were in the league.

They had a losing culture that no amount of talent was going to overcome. They needed leadership, someone to instill something deeper into the collective mindset.

Many folks have argued about regime change here Houston. Many of the anti-change crowd indicated that a new head coach would not automatically make a difference, that it takes time to accrue talent and a staff, implement schemes, and fill the bench.

Heck, even Bob McNair himself stated that changing head coaches is "traumatic" as a way to support his decision to keep Kubiak.

Harbaugh just proved all of that wrong, and did it without the benefit of an off-season.

I am not arguing that Kubiak should not be considered. But if you are honest about your analysis, Harbaugh did this season what Kubiak was supposed to do (and predicted to do) in 2008, 2009, 2010.

NOBODY expected the 49ers to be 10-2 and clinch a playoff spot in week 12 (a full decade since their last appearance).

Harbaugh 1 year > Kubiak 6 years. This is how voters will see it.

p.s. I'm not even a fan of Jim Harbaugh, and Kubiak is my coach. I'd really like to see McCarthy get it for 16-0 and then lose to the Texans in the Super Bowl.
I think voters will also see the texans winning without a lot of their key players.

And I get that harbaugh had the one year turn around where it has taken kubiak a while, but harbaugh is in the worst division in football.

I thought that they should have done this with singletary but he just wasn't a good head coach.

I remember the talk going into last season was that the niners were ready to take the next step. They didn't. Considering how awful the division was last year I don't see why the niners winning it is a shock.

10-2 is eye opening though. Harbaugh deserves credit for that. Hes been outstanding. He overcame a losing culture just like we did.

But I don't think he's done a better job than kubiak or McCarthy this year.
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Old 12-05-2011   #59
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

Y'all make some great points. I think the key pro-Kubiak is the injuries and how the team has really rallied around the team concept.

And the point about how weak the NFC West is not lost on me. After all, this is the division that produced the NFL's only 7-9 division winner (although, to their credit, they did beat the defending champion Saints in a playoff game, fwiw).

Although, the con-Kubiak is that it took Wade to coach half the team to finally take this team over the hump.
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Old 12-05-2011   #60
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Default Re: Whether you like it or not, but Kubiak...

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
First, "their own history" isn't that different from ours. I thought I pointed that out before. Last year both teams were 6-10. The year before I think we were 9-7 and they were 8-8 (yes, I fixed that). In 2008 they were 7-9 and we were 8-8. This year they are 10-2 with no significant injuries and we're 9-3 with, as you pointed out, half the team gone. It's not like the Niners went from 0-16 to 10-2. They made the same progress from last year to this, that we did, with a weaker schedule.

Secondly, when you look closer, the "expectations" should have been for the Niners to win that division running away. They have the best talent overall. At the skilled positions they have Gore, V.Davis, Crabtree, Tedd Ginn, Jr. and Braylon Edwards (okay he might be a minus). And did I mention that their O-line has three 1st rd picks in Staley, Iupati, and Anthony Davis and a high 2nd round in Chilo Rachal (#39 overall).

My point is that Harbaugh inherited plenty of talent. If expectations for the Niners were low, it's because the talking heads didn't do their homework.

I'm thinking that, like Houston, SF was the most talented team in a shakey division. Just like Kubiak was expected to capture with a Manning-less AFC South, Harbaugh should have been expected to win a weak NFC West.

Harbaugh's doing what he should be doing and that just doesn't scream "Advantage Harbaugh" to me.
I have absolutely no issue with your arguments or Tkyss's in regard to the team and where it is. My issue is that the difference maker in San Fransisco I believe is Harbaugh, but in Houston it's Wade Phillips. Kubiak is just the benefactor of a revamped defense. The offense has performed well each year under Kubiak but it took 6 years to get a top 10 defense. That's why I put Harbaugh above Kubes, and I think their resumes regarding the overall team are relatively similar.

I don't know if there is a Coordinator of the Year award, but if there is Wade Phillips ought to win that unanimously.
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