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Old 12-24-2011   #361
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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We shall see.
most of us already have.
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Old 12-24-2011   #362
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

76texan, if u read my post, I said the db play hands and or the helmet. The really good wrs won't show u either until the ball is right there. Reggie wayne never gives the db any indication where the ball is until late. On a fade, as soon as he is turning towards the qb, the db should've be turning to locate the ball. I've watched wayne enough and we can back to that catch he had in the corner vs the texans a few yrs ago. He catches the fade at a high point, with his hands away from the body. The chance kareem would've had was to turn and jump. In that situation, how many routes could wayne run?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-0A...e_gdata_player

I believe my eyes more than your quotes. He did 0 right on that play. You like videos so much, chew on this one.
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Old 12-24-2011   #363
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

I'm by no means a KJ fan but to be fair, Joseph has been getting lit up alot worse than KJ.
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Old 12-24-2011   #364
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
76texan, if u read my post, I said the db play hands and or the helmet. The really good wrs won't show u either until the ball is right there. Reggie wayne never gives the db any indication where the ball is until late. On a fade, as soon as he is turning towards the qb, the db should've be turning to locate the ball. I've watched wayne enough and we can back to that catch he had in the corner vs the texans a few yrs ago. He catches the fade at a high point, with his hands away from the body. The chance kareem would've had was to turn and jump. In that situation, how many routes could wayne run?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-0A...e_gdata_player

I believe my eyes more than your quotes. He did 0 right on that play. You like videos so much, chew on this one.
Why did I watch that play... Now I'm pissed off all over again. What a shitty start to my Christmas vac.
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Old 12-24-2011   #365
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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I'm by no means a KJ fan but to be fair, Joseph has been getting lit up alot worse than KJ.
Joseph is a probowl player though and has already proven his worth and ability in this league. Kburnt still needs to prove that he belongs.

I can live with mistakes by Joseph, because I know more often than not, he'll make the play.
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Old 12-24-2011   #366
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Joseph is a probowl player though and has already proven his worth and ability in this league. Kburnt still needs to prove that he belongs.

I can live with mistakes by Joseph, because I know more often than not, he'll make the play.
And here lies the issue with which I have problems with. Kjax for the most part plays solidly. He gives up some big plays and everyone just absolutely jumps on him. Jjoe, on the other hand, is almost entirely given a free pass. The bias from last year is still here, and most people still view it with the same pair of glasses.
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Old 12-24-2011   #367
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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And here lies the issue with which I have problems with. Kjax for the most part plays solidly. He gives up some big plays and everyone just absolutely jumps on him. Jjoe, on the other hand, is almost entirely given a free pass. The bias from last year is still here, and most people still view it with the same pair of glasses.
Yeah, sorry if I'm going to give a probowler a pass when he gets beat.

It'd be like going into a thread that was discussing how crappy Jacoby Jones is and then asking why people aren't upset with Andre Johnson if he has a couple of drops. It doesn't make any sense.
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Old 12-24-2011   #368
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Why did I watch that play... Now I'm pissed off all over again. What a shitty start to my Christmas vac.
I'm sorry, but I wanted to see the technique jackson was playing.

1. He didn't get a jam on wayne
2. He didn't recognize the route
3. When wayne turned to the qb, he didn't turn around.
4. When wayne jumped, he didn't jumped. Instead, he stayed down and measured waynes johnson.
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Old 12-24-2011   #369
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Originally Posted by foo82 View Post
And here lies the issue with which I have problems with. Kjax for the most part plays solidly. He gives up some big plays and everyone just absolutely jumps on him. Jjoe, on the other hand, is almost entirely given a free pass. The bias from last year is still here, and most people still view it with the same pair of glasses.
JoJo was solid last year for the bengals, JoJo has been solid this year. Cant compare the 2.

JoJo has ball skills, he has speed, he has instincts, and he knows how to cover WRs.

KJ has no ball skills, has no deep speed, has no instincts, and does not know how to cover WRs.

KJ has "looked" better this season, that is due to an awesome front 7, trust me when you get that much pressure it benefits the secondary. When we dont get pressure is when he is always getting beat our giving up a big play, take the last play of the colts game, no pressure and he gives up the game winning TD.
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Old 12-24-2011   #370
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Unfortunately for the Texans, Joseph has been getting burnt just as much recently. Let's not forget he got beat BADLY on a play where Watt saved the day by knocking it down.
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Old 12-24-2011   #371
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I trust Wade Phillip's opinion on defense 1000x more than you guys. If he thinks Kareem is our 2nd best corner, then I'll side with him.

If Kareem really does suck as much as you guys say, why is he still starting?
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Old 12-24-2011   #372
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Unfortunately for the Texans, Joseph has been getting burnt just as much recently. Let's not forget he got beat BADLY on a play where Watt saved the day by knocking it down.
lets not forget where Julio dropped the game winner for atlanta and KJ was covering. I dont care what the stats say, i have the replay, KJ didnt touch the ball and julio dropped it. KJ never pulled his arm down. i mean we can talk about that if we want to talk about what ifs.
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Old 12-24-2011   #373
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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I trust Wade Phillip's opinion on defense 1000x more than you guys. If he thinks Kareem is our 2nd best corner, then I'll side with him.

If Kareem really does suck as much as you guys say, why is he still starting?
why is he splitting time with a street FA ?
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Old 12-25-2011   #374
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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why is he splitting time with a street FA ?
I was under the impression you thought very highly of Allen. Why is he splitting time with KJ if "KJ has no ball skills, has no deep speed, has no instincts, and does not know how to cover WRs"?
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Old 12-25-2011   #375
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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I was under the impression you thought very highly of Allen. Why is he splitting time with KJ if "KJ has no ball skills, has no deep speed, has no instincts, and does not know how to cover WRs"?
First round picks play. Why is Blaine Gabbert still starting games for the Jags? Why did Amobi start multiple seasons here?

I also think Allen is a decent player...I wouldn't just write him off as a street FA...I label him more as a "late bloomer" who's making the most of his second chance. I think he deserves his opportunity and if Jackson wasn't a first round pick he would've been given the job already.

Kareem Jackson has done some things well so I'm not going to totally pile on him. He's a good tackler and is physical when playing in run support. He just doesn't have the natural instincts to find the ball once it's thrown, his route recognition is sub par, and he doesn't have make up/closing speed if he happens to take a "misstep" when a receiver beats or confuses him on a route.
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Old 12-25-2011   #376
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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First round picks play. Why is Blaine Gabbert still starting games for the Jags? Why did Amobi start multiple seasons here?

I also think Allen is a decent player...I wouldn't just write him off as a street FA...I label him more as a "late bloomer" who's making the most of his second chance. I think he deserves his opportunity and if Jackson wasn't a first round pick he would've been given the job already.

Kareem Jackson has done some things well so I'm not going to totally pile on him. He's a good tackler and is physical when playing in run support. He just doesn't have the natural instincts to find the ball once it's thrown, his route recognition is sub par, and he doesn't have make up/closing speed if he happens to take a "misstep" when a receiver beats or confuses him on a route.
I agree with most of this. I think Allen and Kareem make a good combo at number 2. They both offer something different, while they both have glaring weaknesses. That can be said about most number 2s though.

About being a first rounder though, there's also negatives that come with it. There's an expectation to perform. And when Kareem didn't perform, he was immediately labeled as a bust, whether you want to admit it or not. People have only looked at his negatives since day one of this season. He's played solidly enough for me to feel somewhat positive about his development. He IS a second year CB.
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Old 12-25-2011   #377
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Let's remember that KJ was put into an impossible situation last year by a retarded coaching staff. No rookie CB should ever be thrown out there with terrible coaches and no mentor and expected to cover the other teams #1 WR, that's just a recipe for losing, which we did alot of. Remember last year Gibbs was teaching the CB's to shuffle not back pedal like they've learned all their football life so they were also having to unlearn old technique and learn new technique. That's like telling a right handed rookie QB to start all season and throw left handed. This last offseason was also unusual due to the lockout, no OTA's, and the new defensive coaching staff couldn't work with the players to teach new/proper technique again. So everyone had to learn through a shortened training camp. Considering the fact that KJ's growth as an NFL player was regressed his rookie year by terrible coaches and then stunted his 2nd season by no OTA's and coaching, I think he's doing pretty damn good. Now if he's still playing badly at this time next year when he's had a regular offseason of teaching and OTA's and a full training camp as well as a mentor and better coaching staff and time to learn and gain experience then yea let's look for someone better. I think he's vastly improved over last year. Remember Revis and Aso weren't great until about their 3rd season in the league either.
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Old 12-25-2011   #378
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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I was under the impression you thought very highly of Allen. Why is he splitting time with KJ if "KJ has no ball skills, has no deep speed, has no instincts, and does not know how to cover WRs"?
i think allen is better than KJ, but allen is no JoJo or Reevis. And it is true that allen was a street FA. Allen does give up plays, just like KJ, but allen gets way more turnovers than KJ. Allen has what 9-10 ints as a texan in a season and a half. thats damn good.
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Old 12-25-2011   #379
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Allen has what 9-10 ints as a texan in a season and a half. thats damn good.
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Old 12-25-2011   #380
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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why is he splitting time with a street FA ?
True, he was signed as a FA, but wasn't Allen a former 1st round pick a few years ago?
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