Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-06-2011   #221
TejasTom
Heisenwatt
 
TejasTom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pearland
Section: Brazos Suite
Posts: 1,484
Rep Power: 64171 TejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?



Sherman Set the WABAC Machine for Dec. 4, 2011 with 0:01 second left in the Texans - Falcons game. We will need to be in the north end zone on the west side. We need to keep Kareem Jackson from touching Julio Jones so we can determine if Kareem affected the play.



A bird in the hand is worth a win on Sunday.
__________________
"Success isn't owned. It's leased and rent is due every day." ~ J.J. Watt
TejasTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2011   #222
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I'm rewatching the game and Julio actually made a tougher catch in the falcons second to last drive. The one where Allen was covering him. He came down out of bounds because of tremendous coverage by Allen. He was all over Julio and he still made great catch. Luckily for us Allen had him so close to the sideline he landed out of bounds.

It's also funny because had Allen not gotten hurt on that last drive Kareem likely isn't in.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2011   #223
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Julio just made the catch that put them on the 25 and in position to throw the hail Mary over kjax. Sick catch. Kareem was right there but Julio is just bigger and soared over him.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2011   #224
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Ok, Julio makes another catch with Kareem all over him at about the 10 but it is called back because Julio stepped out of bounds. But they are either targeting Kareem or they are in love with Julio or they are scared of jo.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #225
RTP2110
Hall of Fame
 
RTP2110's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atascocita
Age: 35
Posts: 3,017
Rep Power: 6845 RTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

I don't want to debate anyone but I will add my opinion. I don't think Jackson had much to do with the incompletion. When I watch GP's video I see two things, first Jones catches the end of the ball. His hands are on the front third, and not around the middle of the ball. This is why he has a grip on it at first, but loses it as his hands bring the ball downward. Second, watch the video and look at nothing but Jones' left arm. I don't see any evidence that his arm is hampered or impeded by any outside force. Jackson's arm is wedged between Jones' arm and chest, but I never see Jones' arm pulled or affected at all. And I don't think Jackson made the catch any harder, this is the NFL, 99.9% of the catches are closely contested.

Again, its just my opinion. I'm not roasting KJ, just commenting on the last play. I'm not trying to debate. If you disagree, that's perfectly fine and I have no problem with that.
RTP2110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #226
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

And finally the last play.

Whoever said glover and demps should have done more are incorrect. Gq came from almost the middle of the field. Demps probably could have done more but he risked getting a pi call. He couldn't have done a whole lot either.

Kareem was in the best position to defend the play and after watching it I'm less impressed with what he did.

He looked up, located the ball and failed to put his body in between the receiver and the ball. Maybe he was afraid of pi, or maybe he was intimidated by the fact that Julio had made some nice plays on him on that drive and a couple earlier in the game but in all honestly that's a catch Julio should have made.

Now you can disagree with that if you want, but I had to look again for myself and I think anyone saying Kareem is mostly the reason for the drop is incorrect.

It's funny because none of the guys around the play really celebrated or congratulated Kareem. They all looked like they had just seen a ghost.

Probably thanking their lucky stars that he dropped the ball.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #227
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I'm going to chalk it up to the level of qb and receiver we went against but Kareem gave up more plays down the field than both Allen and Joseph combined.

The out and up, the fade route and then on the last drive when Allen got hurt every pass that was actually caught or had a chance at being caught was against Kareem.

Kareem is getting better, but Allen still covers down the field better.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 12-07-2011   #228
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83971 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I'm rewatching the game and Julio actually made a tougher catch in the falcons second to last drive. The one where Allen was covering him. He came down out of bounds because of tremendous coverage by Allen. He was all over Julio and he still made great catch. Luckily for us Allen had him so close to the sideline he landed out of bounds.

It's also funny because had Allen not gotten hurt on that last drive Kareem likely isn't in.

I had prepared (even before you post about this play) to comment, but I never did for the simple reason I've been sticking to (not to tear down the guy).

I don't like the way he got himself hurt though.
And I would just leave it at that, for the same reason!
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #229
TejasTom
Heisenwatt
 
TejasTom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pearland
Section: Brazos Suite
Posts: 1,484
Rep Power: 64171 TejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
... They all looked like they had just seen a ghost.
The ghost of Jaguars' games past.
__________________
"Success isn't owned. It's leased and rent is due every day." ~ J.J. Watt
TejasTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #230
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83971 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Julio just made the catch that put them on the 25 and in position to throw the hail Mary over kjax. Sick catch. Kareem was right there but Julio is just bigger and soared over him.
Prevent defense 4 deep, 3 underneath, rushing 4.
Cushing probably should get back deeper (at least 12 yards) to tighten the window.
He can always react to the RB (who stayed back and blocked along with the TE - Quin guarding the inside underneath zone.)
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #231
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83971 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Ok, Julio makes another catch with Kareem all over him at about the 10 but it is called back because Julio stepped out of bounds. But they are either targeting Kareem or they are in love with Julio or they are scared of jo.
You are crazy, Rey, sorry!

That one will never result in a catch!

:wadepalm
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #232
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I had prepared (even before you post about this play) to comment, but I never did for the simple reason I've been sticking to (not to tear down the guy).

I don't like the way he got himself hurt though.
And I would just leave it at that, for the same reason!
Why would you tear down any body?

It's ok to give honest criticism, but o have honestly never heard you give a negative criticism of Kareem and even when Allen makes a play you act like it's no big deal.

News flash, he's better than Kareem at covering down the field.

You like to talk about trusting the coaches and there is a reason he saw a lot of time against that team and there is a reason he was in on those last two series and not kareem. .… well before he got hurt.

Ive asked you to do this before but maybe I'm writing in hieroglyphics when I think I'm writing in English, but it'd be nice if you actually gave objective analysis.

The fact that you are fighting back the urge to "tear" down Allen for the hit (yes he lowered his head; bad move) that injured him is kind of strange to me when you havent said a peep about the excellent coverage that he had on Julio the drive before while Kareem was getting caught all over as soon as he came in.

Both players have their warts, both players have things that they do better than the other one.

Not sure why you struggle to come to grips with that.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #233
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
You are crazy, Rey, sorry!

That one will never result in a catch!

:wadepalm
What?

It wasn't a statistical catch, but he caught the ball. The point is that he's catching the ball and Kareem is smothering him and is in pretty good position.

I think Every pass that was actually a statistical catch for Julio came against Kareem though.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #234
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83971 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
And finally the last play.

Whoever said glover and demps should have done more are incorrect. Gq came from almost the middle of the field. Demps probably could have done more but he risked getting a pi call. He couldn't have done a whole lot either.
Another prevent defense, either 5 deep 2 underneath or 4 deep 3 underneath, but this one is deeper.
Two receivers on the other side with 4 guys covering.
One lone receiver on this side.
Whatever the defense call was, either Quin or Demps (most likely Demps) has to head straight to the receiver, no question asked!
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #235
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Another prevent defense, either 5 deep 2 underneath or 4 deep 3 underneath, but this one is deeper.
Two receivers on the other side with 4 guys covering.
One lone receiver on this side.
Whatever the defense call was, either Quin or Demps (most likely Demps) has to head straight to the receiver, no question asked!
76, you don't know what they are taught to do. I don't take these kind of posts seriously and never will.

Ive been around too much football.

You can get all these other folks buying this stuff, but I know better. Try again.

You dont head straight for a receiver when you are in a deep zone. That makes 0 sense. Otherwise you might as well say you are doubling the receiver. . .which he wasn't.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #236
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83971 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
What?

It wasn't a statistical catch, but he caught the ball. The point is that he's catching the ball and Kareem is smothering him and is in pretty good position.

I think Every pass that was actually a statistical catch for Julio came against Kareem though.
1. A ball caught by a receiver who went out of bound is called an incompletion!
2. The DB was in good position; even as the receiver catches the ball and got pushed out of bound without both feet inbound (and Julio had neither foot inbound), it is still an incompletion!
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #237
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83971 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
76, you don't know what they are taught to do. I don't take these kind of posts seriously and never will.

Ive been around too much football.

You can get all these other folks buying this stuff, but I know better. Try again.

You dont head straight for a receiver when you are in a deep zone. That makes 0 sense. Otherwise you might as well say you are doubling the receiver. . .which he wasn't.
Amazing!
In a 5-deep and you want to tell me that the right-inside deep back stay frozen on 3 verticals, with only one coming his way!

I believe you play on the line, am I correct?
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #238
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
1. A ball caught by a receiver who went out of bound is called an incompletion!
2. The DB was in good position; even as the receiver catches the ball and got pushed out of bound without both feet inbound (and Julio had neither foot inbound), it is still an incompletion!
Try to follow along.

I mentioned that play to show that Julio was capable of catching a ball even with tight coverage around him.

You are not even thinking before you respond. You are just in defend Kareem mode like a mother bear defending her cubs. Dude take a step back, breath.

I wasn't even criticizing kjax there and even used the word "smothering" to describe his coverage.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #239
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Amazing!
In a 5-deep and you want to tell me that the right-inside deep back stay frozen on 3 verticals, with only one coming his way!

I believe you play on the line, am I correct?
Frozen? Who said anything about frozen?

Just in case you didn't know the safety has to honor the fact that one if those verticals can actually turn into a post. He cannot "head straight to the receiver" as you said. That doesn't make any sense at all.

If that is the case then he is just doubling the receiver and that's not what happened.

He cannot head straight to the receiver and then one of the receivers on the other side of the field heads towards the middle and now you have one on one coverage.

Like I said, you can preach this stuff to some people but I know better. Me playing on the line has nothing to do with anything. I was in all kind of meeting rooms at some point. I've played scout team and heard defensive coaches coaching. I've been in special team meeting rooms and offensive meeting rooms.

I've heard the qb coach talking to the qb telling him what to look for.

You know, you just pick up on stuff after being around so long. And I can tell that most of the stuff you preach is stuff you read somewhere and interpreted for yourself and not stuff you have learned from experience. It's cookie cutter, often doesn't make sense and doesn't take live football into the equation.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011   #240
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83971 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I'm rewatching the game and Julio actually made a tougher catch in the falcons second to last drive. The one where Allen was covering him. He came down out of bounds because of tremendous coverage by Allen. He was all over Julio and he still made great catch. Luckily for us Allen had him so close to the sideline he landed out of bounds. It's also funny because had Allen not gotten hurt on that last drive Kareem likely isn't in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Ok, Julio makes another catch with Kareem all over him at about the 10 but it is called back because Julio stepped out of bounds. But they are either targeting Kareem or they are in love with Julio or they are scared of jo.
The first one was closer to being a catch but you gave plenty of credit to Allen.
The second is never going to be a catch (even if Julio didn't step out of bound) and you have to add "they are either targeting Kareem".
It was good coverage by both, but you touted one and downplayed the other (by sidetracking).
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger