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Old 12-06-2011   #201
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

Everybody else: Just see the video for yourself.

And answer me this: In terms of THAT play, did KJ save the day or did Julio go butterfingers and KJ happened to be there?

It's a simple question. I know we live in a world where there are shades of gray. We can make things SEEM to be whatever we want them to be.

But on THAT play, how much is KJ affecting the play vs. how much did Julio Jones affect the play?

Link. To. Video. Here.

OK, I'm going to watch Scrooge on ABC now. Seems fitting....
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Old 12-06-2011   #202
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Originally Posted by fiasco west View Post
And again...no one else was even around to make the play. I wish some would see that our hail mary defense didn't look so hot the last minute of that game instead of focusing on one player.
I agree.
Either 27 and/or 29 should have been a little closer to the play.
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Old 12-06-2011   #203
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

If you ask me: 70% drop 30% KJ.

But tell me again: why exactly are we talking about that one play for 11 pages? The ball was not caught, 2 DBs were way out of position, KJ was a little out of position and at least got a hand on the receiver. JJ didn`t catch the ball - we won the game.

The title of this thread is "When do we end the Kareem experiment?" - implying we should cut or trade him. And I think the general consensus (here and by the media) is: KJ is playing pretty good right now. Yes he still does mistakes (as on the last play where he should`ve been much closer), but most of the time he plays at a high level.

Edit: By the way @GP I love your sig!
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Old 12-06-2011   #204
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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If you ask me: 70% drop 30% KJ.

But tell me again: why exactly are we talking about that one play for 11 pages? The ball was not caught, 2 DBs were way out of position, KJ was a little out of position and at least got a hand on the receiver. JJ didn`t catch the ball - we won the game.

The title of this thread is "When do we end the Kareem experiment?" - implying we should cut or trade him. And I think the general consensus (here and by the media) is: KJ is playing pretty good right now. Yes he still does mistakes (as on the last play where he should`ve been much closer), but most of the time he plays at a high level.

Edit: By the way @GP I love your sig!
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Old 12-06-2011   #205
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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You know, I sit here and put video AND photos together...showing that Kareem Jackson didn't affect the play...and it's deemed to be something we need to move on from, or that he got the game ball and that carries more weight?

OK. So much for objective analysis.

Let's not discuss it. No, let's say what we feel and just roll with that. LOL.
You're not listening. We are not seeing what you are seeing. Even with your video
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Old 12-06-2011   #206
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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I never said he didn't have a good game. You're reading into things and putting words in my mouth.

I'm only talking about the last play, and have ONLY talked about the last play. Period.

It's like the whole "Is God Real?" debate. I believe in God, but am told that the burden of proof rests upon ME to prove God is real. Well, Julio Jones out and out DROPPED that pass and yet I'm supposed to prove that he could have maintained possession if he HAD caught it to begin with!

Like I said: He can give half of that game ball to the his co-worker.

It was a great gesture to give him the ball. Big whoop.
You never said he did either.

I don't even care about how much he affected, it's nearly impossible to tell. KJs hand IS there though and Julio DOES drop the ball. It is mind-reading to say Kareem had no affect.

If you are catching a ball and meanwhile as you are catching it someone's hand hits your bicep it is entirely possible that Julio panicked for a millisecond and didn't focus on catching the ball and lost grip of it before he knew it. These things happen so fast, slowing it down and watching it over and over still doesn't simulate what actually happened.

Usually when a player gets a game ball it's because they had a good game. We all know that.
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Old 12-06-2011   #207
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
76, do you think Kj could have played that better? Is there anything Kj could have done to prevent Julio from getting his hands on the ball at all?


Yes, but then again, the action on the field is pretty fast.

They both located the ball; they both got to their spot.
Julio got a hand on KJ's chest; he got the upperhand.
I would have liked for KJ to get a hand on Julio's chest instead.

As both were looking at the ball, the refs won't call those things.
I remember one play from last year (a divisional game) where the DB even pushed off Walter, but as he was looking back at the ball, the ref didn't call it.

I don't think KJ was in position to play the "pushing the receiver out of bound" card.
He did it before in this game, and in some other games (Dez Bryant came to mind).
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Old 12-06-2011   #208
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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
If you ask me: 70% drop 30% KJ.

But tell me again: why exactly are we talking about that one play for 11 pages? The ball was not caught, 2 DBs were way out of position, KJ was a little out of position and at least got a hand on the receiver. JJ didn`t catch the ball - we won the game.

The title of this thread is "When do we end the Kareem experiment?" - implying we should cut or trade him. And I think the general consensus (here and by the media) is: KJ is playing pretty good right now. Yes he still does mistakes (as on the last play where he should`ve been much closer), but most of the time he plays at a high level.

Edit: By the way @GP I love your sig!
That's about what I'd put it at. 70/30.

Not sure why folks can't see he could have (and probably expects to) catch that ball anyways had he not had stone hands all game long.

That said, the catch is a lot easier if kj isn't right there pestering him.

I really don't get the either or proposition in here.

Have you guys played football past middle school?

Any receiver worth their salt expects to make that catch and most big time players would. And those saying kj didn't effect the play are ridiculous.

You try catching a ball by yourself and the just put a chair close by and tell me if it's harder or easier.
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Old 12-06-2011   #209
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Yes...
That's all I need to know, thank you.
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Old 12-06-2011   #210
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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The refs credited Yates with a fumble that flew 10 yards FORWARD, too, but it doesn't mean that's what happened. Next? Geez, you're having fun with stats again, huh?

You're reaching as much as KJ did, and coming up with the same thing: Nothing. But you got to post it, so it MUST be true!
NFL.com and Stats, LLC are two independent (and more or less official) sources.
The refs didn't tell them that KJ defended the pass.

That they agreed with the HC (who is another official source) tend to give more credibility.

And quit with that you post, I post stuff, LOL!
We went through this so many times before, there's no need to bring up that card.

Somebody wanted to discredit a player; I disagree so I want to present my point.
I never claim that because I post something that it must be TRUE.
Only those who disagree with me play that card (usually becaue they can't win the argument, LOL!)

PS - You like to use NOTHING and ZERO from time to time, but it was proven later that there was SOMETHING; I sincerely suggest that you refrain from that line.
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Old 12-06-2011   #211
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
1. Let's say Julio managed to hang on to the ball a little longer, there's nothing to indicate that he will be able to maintain possession of the ball throughout the catch as KJ's hand was in there.

2. It was not a catch as it was.

3. KJ got the game ball.

I WIN!
Not a psychology major, but this part clearly indicates a flustered person who do not/cannot continue a debate, and most likely knows he and his trash image analysis and numbers are debunked, and therefore will declare himself the victor in hopes the big bad wolf will leave him alone with "his precious".. I believe I seen this displays before by an 8-year old.

Great video analysis GP.. and for those saying that they trust the game ball over outsiders opinions...I'm also pretty sure Frank Bush was given the game ball a couple times before... hmm, what ended up happening to him again?

For the record , I trust Lance Zierlien opinions over 76Texans and the game ball combined... also for the record, there's a reason why GP rep points are 4X as much as 76.. and it ain't just because of his post counts.

Clear indication of how deeply people here value your "opinion" and analysis, bro..

But then again, "you win". buhahaha
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Old 12-06-2011   #212
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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That's about what I'd put it at. 70/30.
If we're looking at just the "drop" I can agree with that. Take Kj completely out of the picture & Matt Ryan putts it on a rope & it's a much easier catch. He's nowhere near the sideline, he doesn't have to jump, he doesn't have to worry about someone hitting him.

It's a much easier catch all together.

So I'd say 70% affected the play/30% drop....
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Old 12-06-2011   #213
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Originally Posted by PockyAF View Post
Not a psychology major, but this part clearly indicates a flustered person who do not/cannot continue a debate, and most likely knows he and his trash image analysis and numbers are debunked, and therefore will declare himself the victor in hopes the big bad wolf will leave him alone with "his precious".. I believe I seen this displays before by an 8-year old.

Great video analysis GP.. and for those saying that they trust the game ball over outsiders opinions...I'm also pretty sure Frank Bush was given the game ball a couple times before... hmm, what ended up happening to him again?

For the record , I trust Lance Zierlien opinions over 76Texans and the game ball combined... also for the record, there's a reason why GP rep points are 4X as much as 76.. and it ain't just because of his post counts.

Clear indication of how deeply people here value your "opinion" and analysis, bro..

But then again, "you win". buhahaha
Fact: I'm still here to continue the debate!

Fact:
LanceZ's prediction:
Falcons – 21 Texans – 17
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Old 12-06-2011   #214
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If we're looking at just the "drop" I can agree with that. Take Kj completely out of the picture & Matt Ryan putts it on a rope & it's a much easier catch. He's nowhere near the sideline, he doesn't have to jump, he doesn't have to worry about someone hitting him.

It's a much easier catch all together.

So I'd say 70% affected the play/30% drop....
I can't go that far. Just being on the field and in the vicinity doesn't get any extra points from me on a hail Mary.

Let's not forget that this was a hail Mary pass. Just a straight vertical. Everyone knows what's coming. John McClain could have just laid down back there and took up space and made it a "harder catch".

Look, Kareem did enough because he dropped the ball. But if you ask me if I'd be ok with Kareem doing that every time there was a hail mary in the ez I'd say no, I'd probably like to see him do a little more to ensure there was no chance at a catch. Put a body on the guy, grab both arms, you be the one to actually get both hands on the ball, atleast get one hand on the ball.

Ball hit the receiver in both of his hands. Pulling on an arm is great when you aren't close enough to affect the play in any other substantial way, but that isnt ideal.
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Old 12-06-2011   #215
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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Let's not forget that this was a hail Mary pass. Just a straight vertical. Everyone knows what's coming. John McClain could have just laid down back there and took up space and made it a "harder catch".
Can we all agree that John McClain would have taken up at least 70% more space?
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Old 12-06-2011   #216
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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I never said he didn't have a good game. You're reading into things and putting words in my mouth.
Earlier in the thread, on the game ball being given to Kareem, you say he should "cut it in half and give the other half to Jason Allen", which obviously says you don't believe he deserved it. You have gone on and on this subject of Kareem not actually being part of the number 1 defense, that they've done it in spite of him.
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Old 12-06-2011   #217
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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I can't go that far. Just being on the field and in the vicinity doesn't get any extra points from me on a hail Mary.
Demps & Quin are in the vicinity.

I agree that he should not have given up his position, I agree he should have gone up & got his hands on the ball, I agree it should have been better defended.

But to act like Julio would have dropped the ball if KJ sat & watched is silly, which is what's being argued.
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Old 12-06-2011   #218
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

I love when people bring up rep points on here.
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Old 12-06-2011   #219
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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I love when people bring up rep points on here.
What do you know? You've got like 342 rep points.
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Old 12-06-2011   #220
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Default Re: When do we end the Kareem experiment?

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What do you know? You've got like 342 rep points.
Yeah, my football knowledge sucks though.
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