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Old 11-29-2011   #81
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
It is what it is. move forward with Yates no looking back, I mean is there anything the Texans could have done differently? Keep Grossman instead of moving on with Leinart? Or draft Mallet instead of trading up in the second to grab highly graded CB Brandon Harris.

After this season is finished & the staff does it internal team reviews & player assessments, Rick Smith may deceide to focus more on 2012 QB draft & free agent class. Until then its TJ Yates & Kellen Clemons bottom line.
1. Last year's D was SO bad that it was hard to fault Wade for wanting to grab a highly touted DB prospect like Harris. Harris has not gotten onto the field but that is a good thing, in my mind it suggests he is being brought along slowly and s being given the time he needs to learn how to play as a DB as opposed to being thrown into the fire like a certain first round CB was.

2. Kubes did draft TJ so he showed some foresight.

3. TJ's performance will likely give us a good idea of what SMith and Kubes think of him. If he is able to stay healthy and play reasonably well, I think there is a good chance, Kubes rolls with the combo of TJ and a couple of backups until Schaub is ready to go again. If TJ doesn't have it, I wouldn't be surprised if they went after a QB like Matt Flynn.
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Old 11-29-2011   #82
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

It gotta' say, when reading this thread, it is so nice to read that we have a defense that the head coach can trust to go out there and seal the deal.

We've all been waiting for that defense for a looooooong time. All hail Wade!!!
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Old 11-29-2011   #83
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
Was I the only one that wasn't "blown away" by Leinart? I know Kubiak didn't ask him to do much but the numbers dont lie.

Im not saying TJ completely showed him up, Im just saying Leinart didn't do anything Cleo Lemon couldn't have done.

Check down. Check down. Check down.

I know, thats all that was expected of him and he executed that game plan but saying that he did great when he didnt do much at all is a bit of an overstatement.
I wouldn't use the term "blown away", but I was definitely more impressed with Leinart than I was with Yates (even though Kubiak had assumed the fetal position by the time Yates went in). Leinart checked down a lot, yes, but he also threw a hell of a TD and proved that he could move the ball 10+ yards in under three tries, something that Yates has yet to prove he is capable of.
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Old 11-29-2011   #84
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I think part of the reason we saw Yates open it up on his first drive was because the coaches hadn't drawn up an alternative game plan yet with Yates in the game, and drafted one up at the half.
I think there's also a possibility that Kubiak didn't know how badly injured Leinart was. If he thought Leinart was going to be able to go in the second half, he wouldn't have been worrying about Yates getting injured and so he let him play.

During half time, he heard that Leinart was gone and he decided to ice the game to win it.

I think what we saw at the end of the first half is the "real" TJ and I think that's the QB we're going to get for the rest of the season.
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Old 11-29-2011   #85
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

Yates is a more mobile QB. The first NFL plays for Yates were remarkable. I was certainly surprised. You can see in this video that Yates can read the defense pretty well and run the ball for the first down just like how he attempted to against the Jags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_B8HCfUqv4
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Old 11-29-2011   #86
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by burro View Post
I wouldn't use the term "blown away", but I was definitely more impressed with Leinart than I was with Yates (even though Kubiak had assumed the fetal position by the time Yates went in). Leinart checked down a lot, yes, but he also threw a hell of a TD and proved that he could move the ball 10+ yards in under three tries, something that Yates has yet to prove he is capable of.
...except for that whole "two-minute drill" thingy that he did right before half. Which, coincedentally was the first drive of his career.
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Old 11-29-2011   #87
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
...except for that whole "two-minute drill" thingy that he did right before half. Which, coincedentally was the first drive of his career.
One drive isn't anything to throw a party over, just sayin'...

I have confidence that Yates could be good, but to act like Yates is some kind of immediate improvement based on what we saw Sunday is homerism at its worst.
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Old 11-29-2011   #88
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by burro View Post
One drive isn't anything to throw a party over, just sayin'...

I have confidence that Yates could be good, but to act like Yates is some kind of immediate improvement based on what we saw Sunday is homerism at its worst.
I'm not saying Yates is better than leinart. In fact I think leinart is better. I'm just pointing out the flaws in your logic.

Leinart was not impressive. Yates didn't blow the roof off either. Since that game is the only sample size we have to go off of, neither of the two stood above the other.
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Old 11-29-2011   #89
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by burro View Post
One drive isn't anything to throw a party over, just sayin'...

I have confidence that Yates could be good, but to act like Yates is some kind of immediate improvement based on what we saw Sunday is homerism at its worst.
If you look at the actual throws, Yates was driving the ball down to the wr's. Andre didn't see a catch till Yates was in the game I think. Leinart didn't dispel his reputation one bit Sunday. Small sample size, but consistent all the same. Capt'n Checkdown he was.
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Old 11-29-2011   #90
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
If you look at the actual throws, Yates was driving the ball down to the wr's. Andre didn't see a catch till Yates was in the game I think. Leinart didn't dispel his reputation one bit Sunday. Small sample size, but consistent all the same. Capt'n Checkdown he was.
From another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.
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Old 11-29-2011   #91
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
If you look at the actual throws, Yates was driving the ball down to the wr's. Andre didn't see a catch till Yates was in the game I think. Leinart didn't dispel his reputation one bit Sunday. Small sample size, but consistent all the same. Capt'n Checkdown he was.
Capt'n Checkdown didn't turn the ball over, didn't make boneheaded decisions and managed the game well enough; to say that Leinart was somehow sub-par because he found his check down receiver more often than he tried to force something down the field seems a little absurd to me. Boring as it may be, Leinart did exactly what was asked of him and exactly what we were all hoping he would do - not eff it up and manage the game. I'm not saying that Yates sucked out or wont work out, I've drank my Kool-Aid. I just can't in good conscience sit here and rag on a guy that got injured stepping up for our team.
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Old 11-29-2011   #92
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Capt'n Checkdown didn't turn the ball over, didn't make boneheaded decisions and managed the game well enough; to say that Leinart was somehow sub-par because he found his check down receiver more often than he tried to force something down the field seems a little absurd to me. Boring as it may be, Leinart did exactly what was asked of him and exactly what we were all hoping he would do - not eff it up and manage the game. I'm not saying that Yates sucked out or wont work out, I've drank my Kool-Aid. I just can't in good conscience sit here and rag on a guy that got injured stepping up for our team.
You defend him like he's your Brother....almost a flashback to Hulk75. I'm saying that Leinart didn't impress me with his lack of throwing the ball down field and it wasn't any different than how he was a disappointing QB for the Cards. Frankly I've been supporting him...never said a bad word about him last week, but I have more snaps to draw more conclusions from this week. I never said that Yates was a better QB...just that he looked better at being a QB than Leinart did Sunday, plus Leinart did nothing, and I mean nothing to dispel his old habits of chronically checking the ball down to the backs and short route runners. I'm not ragging on Leinart. I'm just discussing reality.
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Old 11-29-2011   #93
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

I noticed Leinart going through his route tree, CBS posted some video in the lead up to the game Sunday. He was verrrrry casually throwing the ball at like 25% speed, almost like he was just going through the motions. I didn't like seeing that image just before the Jags game.

Then, during the game, the guy was half-assing his footwork, IMO, the very thing he said he had been working on. His dropbacks were slow. His roll outs were slow. The play where he got hurt, a screen play, Leinart was DAMN slow getting back to his final dropback spot. IMO, Winston didn't exactly block the rusher as well as he should have...but to me, Leinart hurt himself on that play. It was a culmination, IMO, of a lot of slow-ass footwork by Leinart that day.

Even the TD throw to Dreessen, Leinart was slogging it out with his footwork.

Nothing looked crisp to me. And it doesn't have to be if Leinart is going to throw checkdowns all day. It's a 5-yard pass, it needs no footwork and no zip on the ball.

Burro, in my opinion you ARE a bit suspect on this topic because you are pumping Leinart here in this thread and in the Game Day thread you called Yates' slide a "Vagina Slide." Just taking those two contrasting posts into evaluation...it looks like you have an agenda and not truly analyzing what happened that day. Just my two cents.
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Old 11-30-2011   #94
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
From another thread:


That doesn't have anything remotely to do with Leinart habitually checking the ball down. You think just because they script their plays that they're also scripting which receivers to throw to?

Yes they script plays, plays that have many routes....it's still up to the QB to decide which route and receiver to throw to.

Sorry, but nothing Leinart did Sunday impressed me. Not even the TD pass. Dreessen was wide open and the ball floated in the air for a eternity...against a better secondary that pass gets broken up or picked.
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Old 11-30-2011   #95
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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That doesn't have anything remotely to do with Leinart habitually checking the ball down. You think just because they script their plays that they're also scripting which receivers to throw to?

Yes they script plays, plays that have many routes....it's still up to the QB to decide which route and receiver to throw to.

Sorry, but nothing Leinart did Sunday impressed me. Not even the TD pass. Dreessen was wide open and the ball floated in the air for a eternity...against a better secondary that pass gets broken up or picked.
It was only a poorly-timed adjustment by one of the Jags' secondary players that allowed that ball to be caught by Dreessen.

I know some posters were claiming that Andre Johnson was not open on that play. They say the player covering AJ had stopped covering him and was breaking on the ball as it was headed for Dreessen, but I argue otherwise.

The Jags player covering AJ had already made his mind up to stop covering AJ on that play, and was breaking for shallower ground because he saw Leinart in trouble and he knew the better odds were on the shorter route. The Jags player made the right choice, but he sort of slipped or was hesitant on how he broke off of AJ to make his play on Dreessen. Had he committed earlier, or had he drove into that area of the field better once he made the break, that ball gets picked off and taken the other way for 6.

Instead, a lofted ball fell into the hands of Dreessen and we scored what ended up being the game-winning TD (all things considered). Matt was slow as hell with his footwork on THAT play, and he threw off his back foot, and the Jags player had the slightest pause that gave the ball a real chance of landing in Dreessen's hands. The whole play, IMO, was VERY fortunate for us. It was the sort of play that we always saw happening AGAINST us in games we needed to win badly. But this past Sunday, the football gods gave us ONE Leinart TD pass before unleashing a season-ending hit on him.

It is crazy to think that Leinart's TD throw was the difference in the game, but he ended up getting injured just a few plays later. I honestly do not think he was going to throw much of anything else down the field that day anyways. That one throw was the most important of the whole game, and I think it was lucky to have been caught and converted into a TD for us.
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Old 11-30-2011   #96
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.
My response to that post....
Quote:
First, the scripted business is a red herring. That has nothing to do with the QB's decision to - or not to - go for the WR running the deeper pattern. And of all people, I don't have to tell you that patterns are run in groupings; i.e., medium or deep outs are paired with fly or post patterns to make the safeties commit. I'm sure you know the thought process. My beef was that Leinart never took a shot deep downfield to make the safeties back off. I mean, do you really consider that 14-yd pass to AJ or the TD to Breessen a "deep" pattern?

Seriously?

C'mon man.

While I have to confess with being pleased Leinart never turned the ball over, I'm somewhat disappointed that he never really stretched the field.
Bottom line: ten completions yielded 57 yds; 20 of which came on one play to Dreessen. What else do you call a 5.7 yds/completion average (4.111 if you throw out that 20-yd "bomb") but checking down?
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Old 11-30-2011   #97
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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I'm saying that Leinart didn't impress me with his lack of throwing the ball down field and it wasn't any different than how he was a disappointing QB for the Cards.
Agreed. He only impressed me on one throw. When he came out of the bootleg & Mincy was in his face. He set his feet & threw the ball where it needed to be. Dressen didn't have to slow down for it, it looked like it was going directly to a DB..... Dressen come into the picture & snatches it out of the air.

My biggest worry with back-up/has-beens/never-was QBs is that they still fear the pass rush.

Leinart saw it & delivered.

Yates was definitely impressive. Anyone saying different is probably on heart medication or something. Especially considering the preparation he probably had/didn't have going into the game.

Then he approaches the line, the first time with enough swagger, my wife was commenting how "QB like" he looked before the first snap. Pointing directing, licking his fingers.... he didn't look like a rookie about to take his first snap on the road. & he "looked" like the leader on offense in his short time in the first half.

Like many here, she was cussing Kubiak for not letting Yates throw the ball in the second half. That 14 yard strike to Andre, beautiful perfectly thrown, perfect touched pass in the third Qtr made her even more irate.

She's not a Schaub fan for whatever reason, not much of a Kubiak fan either.
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Old 11-30-2011   #98
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
My response to that post....


Bottom line: ten completions yielded 57 yds; 20 of which came on one play to Dreessen. What else do you call a 5.7 yds/completion average (4.111 if you throw out that 20-yd "bomb") but checking down?
Winning.

We scored 17 points, letting the team do what they do & not forcing anything.

Show me open receivers down the field then we'll talk about "Check downs" whether they were the right call or not.

From where I'm sitting, looked like he made the right decisions.

17 points in the first half.... maybe that would have been a touchdown to end the first..... 24 points. figure at least 10 points in the second, that's a 34 point game, checking down & doing exactly what we thought he would be capable of doing in this offense.

Anyone thinking he was going to look different are the delusional ones. We talked for the last 2 weeks how our system is designed to move the chains & we get our big plays on the bootleg.

That's exactly what we did when Leinart was in the game.
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Old 11-30-2011   #99
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

Mike Lombardi....

Does he think the Texans are less of a "finesse" team without Lienart??
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Old 11-30-2011   #100
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Default Re: Mike Lombardi says the Texans are better off without Leinart

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
You defend him like he's your Brother....almost a flashback to Hulk75. I'm saying that Leinart didn't impress me with his lack of throwing the ball down field and it wasn't any different than how he was a disappointing QB for the Cards. Frankly I've been supporting him...never said a bad word about him last week, but I have more snaps to draw more conclusions from this week. I never said that Yates was a better QB...just that he looked better at being a QB than Leinart did Sunday, plus Leinart did nothing, and I mean nothing to dispel his old habits of chronically checking the ball down to the backs and short route runners. I'm not ragging on Leinart. I'm just discussing reality.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. What I saw was Leinart do exactly what was expected of him; which was play safe football and let the defense and running game carry the bulk of the load. Anyone who was expecting more than a modest performance out of him, or expecting Schaub-quality play for that matter, was engaging in wishful thinking.

As for Yates, I don't know what to expect out of him honestly, but I do think the people pumping Yates as some sort of massive improvement over Leinart are probably going to be disappointed, just as they were with Leinart when he didn't come out and play at a Matt Schaub caliber. Yates will be working with a limited playbook (probably) and that wont do him any favors either.

All this BS aside, I am rooting equally for TJ's success as I was for Leinart's. I pray to God that TJ can lead us to the promised land against all odds, because frankly, it's either Yates or bust. I don't think anyone on this forum seriously wants to see Jake Delhomme under center for the Texans.

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Burro, in my opinion you ARE a bit suspect on this topic because you are pumping Leinart here in this thread and in the Game Day thread you called Yates' slide a "Vagina Slide." Just taking those two contrasting posts into evaluation...it looks like you have an agenda and not truly analyzing what happened that day. Just my two cents.
Yes, GP...I am a member of the Vast-Media Conspiracy against T.J. Yates. FWIW, I will say that comment in the game day thread was more knee-jerk reaction than sensible analysis; stemming from frustration I was experiencing watching our once potent offense fail to move the ball whatsoever in the second half. I won't try to excuse my self, and will own up to saying something boneheaded - which I do often.
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