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Old 12-20-2011   #21
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
IMO, Jones is worthy of a mid 20's 1st round pick, he's got the size, speed, hands, body, and athleticism to be a 1st round pick. I also know that we have depth needs at many positions but think that we could go BPA after a WR in the 1st round. I also wouldn't be upset if the Texans concentrated on the O-line in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, it's way past time we spent some early picks on the O-line and improved our talent level there. This draft seems to be stronger and deeper on the offensive side of the ball and I think we should not force filling defensive positions with subpar talent just because it's a need. We've got defensive starters so go where the value is, BPA.
What keeps pushing the players I want up my board is not knowing if they will be available next round our selection, if that makes sense. IMO, a #2 WR is more needed than a NT. Having said that, If I could get say McNutt #59 second round, I'd go for a NT in first.

Your thoughts?
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Old 12-20-2011   #22
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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What keeps pushing the players I want up my board is not knowing if they will be available next round our selection, if that makes sense. IMO, a #2 WR is more needed than a NT. Having said that, If I could get say McNutt #59 second round, I'd go for a NT in first.

Your thoughts?
Your statement makes perfect sense. If we're drafting in the late 1st round you almost have to approach it from the stand point of the 1st round players don't exist to you unless someone of great value just falls. Honestly though I don't think we're picking in the late 1st. I like TJ Yates but honestly once the playoffs start he won't be facing easy beatable teams, he's going to be facing tough teams that will pressure him hard, shut down the run, and force the Texans to throw thus making Yates beat them. With this in mind I think we pick in the early 20's. I've also considered the idea of waiting for a WR until the 2nd round since WR is so deep in this draft and picking up another great need like OG or NT in the 1st round. The only 1st round worthy NT/DT that fits our 1 gap system that I think Wade would select is Brandon Thompson. So where's the better value?

1. Brandon Thompson-DT
2. Marvin McNutt-WR

or

1. Dwight Jones-WR
2. Josh Chapman-NT

or

1. Dwight Jones-WR
2. Kevin Zeitler-OG

I think the 3rd group is better value but I'm glad that I don't have to make these decisions for real and situations like this are why Rick Smith makes the money he does.
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Old 12-20-2011   #23
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
Your statement makes perfect sense. If we're drafting in the late 1st round you almost have to approach it from the stand point of the 1st round players don't exist to you unless someone of great value just falls. Honestly though I don't think we're picking in the late 1st. I like TJ Yates but honestly once the playoffs start he won't be facing easy beatable teams, he's going to be facing tough teams that will pressure him hard, shut down the run, and force the Texans to throw thus making Yates beat them. With this in mind I think we pick in the early 20's. I've also considered the idea of waiting for a WR until the 2nd round since WR is so deep in this draft and picking up another great need like OG or NT in the 1st round. The only 1st round worthy NT/DT that fits our 1 gap system that I think Wade would select is Brandon Thompson. So where's the better value?

1. Brandon Thompson-DT
2. Marvin McNutt-WR

or

1. Dwight Jones-WR
2. Josh Chapman-NT

or

1. Dwight Jones-WR
2. Kevin Zeitler-OG

I think the 3rd group is better value but I'm glad that I don't have to make these decisions for real and situations like this are why Rick Smith makes the money he does.
So are following off your board?

1. Dontari Poe NT
2. McNutt WR

1. Kendall Wright WR
2. Kevin Zeitler OG
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Old 12-20-2011   #24
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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I think jruss was just trying to fill everyone with his blend of holiday cheer & he probably got his desired results

I will say one thing about these selections, sometimes they are based too much on team need. when you do that often times you get in trouble, case in point two years ago everyone & there cousin knew the Texans were going to draft a CB, which they did, so they reached for who they thought was the best CB on their draft board. Lesson learned, I hope because this year it's WR. Are the Texans going to repeat that same mistake?
Hope the lesson was learned.

With that said, the best way address a major need is with numbers. IMHO

That's why I hope the Texans sign Meachem in FA and draft K.Wright in the 1st and Tommy Streeter in the 3rd. (6'5 215, will run in the 4.4's) If AJ gives the Miami approval.

This is what the Saints have done and the Texans have a much better defense than the Saints. This will help the Texans reach the next level. IMHO

Plus the Texans will still be able to add a NT in the 2nd rd. (Poe,Chapman, Short could all bee available) They can then add depth at LB and OL in rds 4-7.
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Old 12-20-2011   #25
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
So are following off your board?

1. Dontari Poe NT
2. McNutt WR

1. Kendall Wright WR
2. Kevin Zeitler OG
Poe is off my 1st round board until I can see some film that justifies a 1st round grade, I might select a late round pick based solely on multiple "expert" opinions but never a 1st. I'm also dropping NT down my list of priorities to the 2nd or 3rd round due to the level of play by Cody, the fact that this is a poor D-line year in the draft, and the fact that whomever we pick will be in a rotation with Cody at NT not taking over the position by themselves. I like McNutt in the late 2nd round just fine.

I like Wright, he's a good player, I just don't think he's what the Texans need at WR. I'm not saying that he wouldn't work and be good but that I prefer a taller, stronger WR. We throw alot of short and mid range routes, possession routes, and I look for a WR that can handle going over the middle with great hands and a tall redzone target with leaping ability more so than some one who can stretch the field with speed. Speed is a very nice asset to have but it's not most important feature I look for. I sure wish Sanu wasn't going back to school, he'd be a late 1st round prospect as well. I love Zeitler for the Texans, he's perfect for our O-line system and think that he's pretty close to a can't miss type of player for us.

What do you think the odds are of taking 2 WR's in this draft, in the 1st and then again in the 3rd-5th rounds?
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Old 12-20-2011   #26
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
That's why I hope the Texans sign Meachem in FA and draft K.Wright in the 1st and Tommy Streeter in the 3rd. (6'5 215, will run in the 4.4's) If AJ gives the Miami approval.

I'm really hoping that Streeter falls in this draft due to only 1 yr. of play time and the fact that this is a very deep draft at WR. I've been considering him in the 4th round where he'd be great value based on potential. My gut tells me that he'll go in the 3rd though.
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Old 12-20-2011   #27
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I'm really hoping that Streeter falls in this draft due to only 1 yr. of play time and the fact that this is a very deep draft at WR. I've been considering him in the 4th round where he'd be great value based on potential. My gut tells me that he'll go in the 3rd though.
Streeter is off the charts as an athlete.

The Texans should use AJ as a resource to find out what Streeter is all about. If he passes the AJ test I would probably take him in late 2nd. He probably wont be there in the late 3rd.

The 5 best WR value picks (3rd rd or later)
1. Streeter
2. AJ Jenkins
3. Rishard Mathews
4. Posey
5. Broyles

What does your WR list look like pre bowl games/combine? I know we both like D.Jones alot.
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Old 12-20-2011   #28
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

I just dont see what everyone else sees in Jones. He is a big target and has great athleticism, but I dont see a natural receiver when I watch him play.

I would not have a huge problem with him if he ends up being the pick, I would just prefer to grab another position and then grab a guy like McNutt in the 2nd.
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Old 12-20-2011   #29
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Streeter is off the charts as an athlete.

The Texans should use AJ as a resource to find out what Streeter is all about. If he passes the AJ test I would probably take him in late 2nd. He probably wont be there in the late 3rd.

The 5 best WR value picks (3rd rd or later)
1. Streeter
2. AJ Jenkins
3. Rishard Mathews
4. Posey
5. Broyles

What does your WR list look like pre bowl games/combine? I know we both like D.Jones alot.

I agree with the first part of your statement, let AJ find out all he can about Streeter and use that info., possibly by taking Streeter in the 2nd round. The guy has loads of potential.

In the 1st round, other than Blackmon, Floyd, and Jeffery who I think we stand no chance of getting, I like Jones and Sanu, but Sanu is going back to school. I also like Wright but not for the Texans. Call me crazy but height is one big advantage that WR's have over most CB's, it's important in the redzone, and I don't want to give that away.

In the 2nd round I like Juron Criner, and Marvin McNutt.

In the 3rd round I like Tommy Streeter but he'll probably move up everyones draft boards after the combine, Rueben Randle, Jeff Fuller, AJ Jenkins, and Nick Toon.

In the 4th and later I like Ryan Broyles, who's great value here due only to the knee injury. Risard Matthews, and T.Y. Hilton.
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Old 12-20-2011   #30
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
In the 1st round, other than Blackmon, Floyd, and Jeffery who I think we stand no chance of getting, I like Jones and Sanu, but Sanu is going back to school. I also like Wright but not for the Texans. Call me crazy but height is one big advantage that WR's have over most CB's, it's important in the redzone, and I don't want to give that away.

In the 2nd round I like Juron Criner, and Marvin McNutt.

In the 3rd round I like Tommy Streeter but he'll probably move up everyones draft boards after the combine, Rueben Randle, Jeff Fuller, AJ Jenkins, and Nick Toon.

In the 4th and later I like Ryan Broyles, who's great value here due only to the knee injury. Risard Matthews, and T.Y. Hilton.
It appears that size is more important to you than speed. I've got McNutt and Criner in the 4th/5th rd range. (Not enough speed and not fast into/out of breaks. IMHO. Matthews along with Streeter are the two 3rd rd sleepers on my radar.

BTW, Jones is worth a late 1st rd pick. IMHO He just needs to learn how to get out of his breaks faster. But the talent is there. How does Jones compare to UNC product Greg Little?

Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 12-21-2011   #31
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
Poe is off my 1st round board until I can see some film that justifies a 1st round grade, I might select a late round pick based solely on multiple "expert" opinions but never a 1st. I'm also dropping NT down my list of priorities to the 2nd or 3rd round due to the level of play by Cody, the fact that this is a poor D-line year in the draft, and the fact that whomever we pick will be in a rotation with Cody at NT not taking over the position by themselves. I like McNutt in the late 2nd round just fine.

I like Wright, he's a good player, I just don't think he's what the Texans need at WR. I'm not saying that he wouldn't work and be good but that I prefer a taller, stronger WR. We throw alot of short and mid range routes, possession routes, and I look for a WR that can handle going over the middle with great hands and a tall redzone target with leaping ability more so than some one who can stretch the field with speed. Speed is a very nice asset to have but it's not most important feature I look for. I sure wish Sanu wasn't going back to school, he'd be a late 1st round prospect as well. I love Zeitler for the Texans, he's perfect for our O-line system and think that he's pretty close to a can't miss type of player for us.

What do you think the odds are of taking 2 WR's in this draft, in the 1st and then again in the 3rd-5th rounds?
All excellent points & had not heard Sanu was returning but don't blame him as he could move up to high first.

I have mocked two WRs and that is what I'd do but actually doubt Texans will do that unless it is 5th round as you suggest. I'm uncertain if later rounds would offer more potentially than Maehl & Lestar Jean? I am trying to fit a NT in (prob 2nd round) and still get my guy in at WR also. Man, I am greedy. After going to bed last nite, my mind went back to trading Mario scenario and what I could do with two seconds fom Philly. Last look at clock was 1:30 am. sigh. I need a life.
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Old 12-21-2011   #32
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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All excellent points & had not heard Sanu was returning but don't blame him as he could move up to high first.

I have mocked two WRs and that is what I'd do but actually doubt Texans will do that unless it is 5th round as you suggest. I'm uncertain if later rounds would offer more potentially than Maehl & Lestar Jean? I am trying to fit a NT in (prob 2nd round) and still get my guy in at WR also. Man, I am greedy. After going to bed last nite, my mind went back to trading Mario scenario and what I could do with two seconds fom Philly. Last look at clock was 1:30 am. sigh. I need a life.
Being greedy in the draft is a good thing, we all want more than we can currently have. The problem is that my priority list keeps changing so it's hard. I'm having trouble with my 5th round pick as well in my latest mock, do I double dip on WR or O-line, I'm leaning toward O-line. Good point on late round WR probably not offering more than Maehl or Jean that helps with my 5th round decision. I think you'll like my latest mock, I changed some priorities and players.

As for Mario there's no way we franchise him. It would cost $20 mil, he's not worth that much and it would make him impossible to trade since no one wants a contract that large. I sure hope McNair isn't considering this. I also heard this past weekend on tv that next years salary cap will go up but not by much, it will be a very small raise in the cap if at all. With Mario we only have 3 choices as I see it; sign and keep him, sign and trade him (my personal favorite), or let him walk and use the money saved in FA (my 2nd favorite). If we trade him I want a proven young healthy player with lots of potential and draft picks so that we hedge our bets against pick failure either way. My imagination runs wild with the possibilities of extra early draft picks. I want a 1st and 3rd from a bad team or at least two 2nd's and a 4th or 5th. I'm greedy as well.
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Old 12-22-2011   #33
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Being greedy in the draft is a good thing, we all want more than we can currently have. The problem is that my priority list keeps changing so it's hard. I'm having trouble with my 5th round pick as well in my latest mock, do I double dip on WR or O-line, I'm leaning toward O-line. Good point on late round WR probably not offering more than Maehl or Jean that helps with my 5th round decision. I think you'll like my latest mock, I changed some priorities and players.

As for Mario there's no way we franchise him. It would cost $20 mil, he's not worth that much and it would make him impossible to trade since no one wants a contract that large. I sure hope McNair isn't considering this. I also heard this past weekend on tv that next years salary cap will go up but not by much, it will be a very small raise in the cap if at all. With Mario we only have 3 choices as I see it; sign and keep him, sign and trade him (my personal favorite), or let him walk and use the money saved in FA (my 2nd favorite). If we trade him I want a proven young healthy player with lots of potential and draft picks so that we hedge our bets against pick failure either way. My imagination runs wild with the possibilities of extra early draft picks. I want a 1st and 3rd from a bad team or at least two 2nd's and a 4th or 5th. I'm greedy as well.
Problem with getting a first from a bad team is it will be a high choice and I'm not seeing us getting high first + a 3rd. I don't see McNair signing Mario to long term and then trading him to a bad team. I think it would be foolish to disregard the affection Williams and McNair have. Remember when Mario was stopped for the driving incident and McNair had a private meeting to tell him more was expected? Mario afterwards said he appreciated Bob's advice and would straighten up. We have heard nothing off the field from Mario since. Not too long after he purchased the house from the disgraced TSU lady and said then that owning a home was a mature decision. I think they have a bond that will lead to a good contract for Mario. I think McNair wants to have players retire from his team like AJ, Demeco and Mario.

If Mario wanted to go to New England for example, I think McNair would go along. PATs have two late firsts and two seconds.
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Old 12-22-2011   #34
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Default Re: rmartin65 3/4 Mock

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Problem with getting a first from a bad team is it will be a high choice and I'm not seeing us getting high first + a 3rd. I don't see McNair signing Mario to long term and then trading him to a bad team. I think it would be foolish to disregard the affection Williams and McNair have. Remember when Mario was stopped for the driving incident and McNair had a private meeting to tell him more was expected? Mario afterwards said he appreciated Bob's advice and would straighten up. We have heard nothing off the field from Mario since. Not too long after he purchased the house from the disgraced TSU lady and said then that owning a home was a mature decision. I think they have a bond that will lead to a good contract for Mario. I think McNair wants to have players retire from his team like AJ, Demeco and Mario.

If Mario wanted to go to New England for example, I think McNair would go along. PATs have two late firsts and two seconds.
I think BoBBy will

1. Do whatever is best for himself financially
2. Do whatever is in the best interest of the Texans financially.

That's his MO. and there's nothing wrong with that.
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