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Old 11-21-2011   #21
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Doesn't it all depend on who the backup quarterback is? Also, how is the running game on one team verses another? How good is the team overall?

There is this tendency to place way too much value on the quarterback, and it's wrong to do that.

Quarterbacks do not get "wins" or "losses" like baseball pitchers.
I hear what you are saying, or at least can read what you have typed, but in truth they DO get W/L like pitchers. Take a look here if for no other reason than to introduce you to a site you may not be familiar with, anyway you'll see Schaub is 32-32 with the Texans and 0-2 with the Falcons: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SchaMa00.htm Look at the column next to GS (games started); you'll also notice the site is frequently updated.

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True. But the Texans had a better shot at the playoffs prior to both QBs going down. I see Cerberus' point. Neither team is as good as before. But, good enough to make the playoffs.
Yes, my point is simply that both teams just got knocked down a couple notches, though it appears many Texan fans believe it was only a notch for their team.

What happens if Leinart goes 1-5 or 2-4?
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Old 11-21-2011   #22
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
Will the Bears losing Cutler have the same effect on the Bears that Schuab will have to the Texans? I only ask, because if you believe that losing Cutler spells doom and gloom for the Bears, you may have to look at the Schaub loss the same. Texans and Bears both have great defenses, both have great running backs, and both just lost their starting QBs. So, before counting out Bears, or penciling-in the Texans for the playoffs, think about the losses of Schaub and Cutler and how they could effect the two teams similarly.
Oh, you are so right.

If only this had happened before the trade deadline, then we could trade next year's number 1 pick plus 2013's 2nd round pick (that could turn into a 1) for a QB that has seen his better days...... 4 years ago.

Woe is me... woe is the Texans..... if only we could be run like that classy Oakland franchise.... if only we had the forethought of that genius Al Davis...

Well, what's done is done. Can't cry over spilled milk. Hopefully the Texans can read the tea leaves as well as you & start tanking the remaining 6 games on our schedule. @ 7-9 maybe we can pick in the 18-22 range & get something from this wasted season.

Woe is me..... woe is me... all hail to the Raiders.......
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Old 11-21-2011   #23
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Oh, you are so right.

If only this had happened before the trade deadline, then we could trade next year's number 1 pick plus 2013's 2nd round pick (that could turn into a 1) for a QB that has seen his better days...... 4 years ago.

Woe is me... woe is the Texans..... if only we could be run like that classy Oakland franchise.... if only we had the forethought of that genius Al Davis...

Well, what's done is done. Can't cry over spilled milk. Hopefully the Texans can read the tea leaves as well as you & start tanking the remaining 6 games on our schedule. @ 7-9 maybe we can pick in the 18-22 range & get something from this wasted season.

Woe is me..... woe is me... all hail to the Raiders.......
what ARE you talking about?
Maybe I missed them, but I can't recall a single post where someone lamented about not being able to snag Carson Palmer. So what are you on about?
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Old 11-21-2011   #24
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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what ARE you talking about?
He's waiting for one of us to tell him what a great decision it was for the Raiders to mortgage their future on Palmer.
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Old 11-21-2011   #25
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

Both the Texans/Bears will win 10 games.

The Texans will win the Division.

The Bears will need luck to win a WC berth in the NFC.
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Old 11-21-2011   #26
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

Tough break for both teams, no doubt.
But the season for neither team should be assumed to be headed in this direction....
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Old 11-21-2011   #27
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
He's waiting for one of us to tell him what a great decision it was for the Raiders to mortgage their future on Palmer.
We were in much better shape, depth wise, than Oakland. While he has helped them, Oakland waaaay overspent for C.P.
There was no reason for us to make a drastic move like that.

I will say this, I'm waiting to see who gets signed to backup Yates. At the rate QB's are dropping, we need some insurance.
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Old 11-21-2011   #28
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
We were in much better shape, depth wise, than Oakland. While he has helped them, Oakland waaaay overspent for C.P.
There was no reason for us to make a drastic move like that.

I will say this, I'm waiting to see who gets signed to backup Yates. At the rate QB's are dropping, we need some insurance.
A lot of people are looking at GreenBay as the template for the "correct" way to bring along a QB prospect. Sit him behind a guy who can get the job done for a couple of years or so then let him lose.

While we didn't draft a first rounder, that is exactly what Leinart is & he's been sitting behind Kurt Warner & Matt Schaub.

He's known success in the NFL & he's known failure. He's had time to study the game, learn his trade, & hone his skills.

He may still be a bust.

Still, he may be that QB he was drafted to be.
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Old 11-21-2011   #29
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
Will the Bears losing Cutler have the same effect on the Bears that Schuab will have to the Texans?
No, the Bears are in worse shape.

Martz's offense is quarterback un-friendly & very complicated ... and more QB reliant. Cutler has still been running for his life -- and the dude has mad skills. If I see Caleb Haine back there I'm putting 8 in the box. Forte having a big year, but he's no power runner.

Add in the O-lines comparison (glad we ended up with D.Brown over C.Williams) and I think the Texans offense is more of a turnkey system.
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Old 11-21-2011   #30
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
First, I'm not writing off the Bears chances, just as I'm not suggesting that losing Schaub for the season is anything but a negative.

However, when you look at the two situations and try to form an opinion on which team is in the better situation to weather their specific circumstances, it is a very defensible position to say it's the Texans.

As has already been pointed out, their current playoff positioning is better than the Bears, and their remaining schedule is probably a bit tougher than ours as half the teams we play currently have 3 wins or fewer.

I think the most important single component of why the Texans should deal with the loss of a starting QB better is the running game. When you look at the running and passing (including sacks) percentage to this point in the season, you'll see that the Texans have run the ball approx. 54% of the time, while the Bears number stands at approx. 44%. The YPC is actually pretty comparable at 4.4 for the Texans to 4.3 for the Bears, but this stat tells me the Texans offense is less impacted by the QB than the Bears. It also tells me there's likely to be less of an adjustment to the new QB for the Texans (although the way Martz's mind works, he may choose not to make any adjustments - which would present problems in and of itself).

The final item that makes me believe the Texans are in a better position to deal with this adversity is their defense. While the OP characterized both defenses as great, it didn't point out that if you evaluate defenses by yards, the Bears are in the bottom 1/3 of the league, while the Texans are #1. If you'd rather go by points allowed, then you're looking at a middle of the pack Bears (13th) compared to the second best scoring defense in the league. The result of all this is a Bears team that has an average point differential of plus 6.1 per game compared to a Texans team of plus 10.7 game. In other words, we're better positioned to deal with a decrease in offensive potency.

Again, neither team should view it as a positive that their starting QB is out of the rest of the year, nor should either team view it as a sign that their season is over. I just think that in a head to head comparison, the impact on the Texans shouldn't be as great as the impact on the Bears.
Nice post, and good research.

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
what ARE you talking about?
Maybe I missed them, but I can't recall a single post where someone lamented about not being able to snag Carson Palmer. So what are you on about?
He is talking about another thread and another subject. One has nothing to do with the other. thunderkyss just doesn't like it that I'm a Raider fan first and foremost, and a Texan fan second. I also think he is still a little butt-sore about the Raiders vs. Texans game this year.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
He's waiting for one of us to tell him what a great decision it was for the Raiders to mortgage their future on Palmer.
What does Palmer have to do with Schaub/Cutler? The Raiders picked up Palmer via trade to replace Campbell, something that neither the Texans nor Bears can do with any team, because the trade deadline has come and gone. So, one has nothing to do with the other, unless Palmer were to go down next week; then there would be similarities between the Texans, Bears and Raiders.
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Old 11-21-2011   #31
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

Cutler's more important to the Bears, I think.

Their WRs are lackluster and they only have Forte. Their D is great though. We have Foster, Tate, Andre, the OL, Dreesen, and Daniels to go along with our stud D.
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Old 11-21-2011   #32
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by asleep View Post
Martz's offense is quarterback un-friendly & very complicated ...
Martz took a guy with 11 career throws and turned him into a Super Bowl MVP after his starting QB went down in 1999. Kurt Warner would say Martz' offense is very friendly.
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Old 11-21-2011   #33
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

are we not forgetting that cutler is out 6-8 weeks?

meaning he could hypothetically play in the playoffs. the bears still have a decently easy schedule, with the afc west still left on their radar. so they might not be completely f'ed. set back, but not f'ed.
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Old 11-21-2011   #34
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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are we not forgetting that cutler is out 6-8 weeks?

meaning he could hypothetically play in the playoffs. the bears still have a decently easy schedule, with the afc west still left on their radar. so they might not be completely f'ed. set back, but not f'ed.

And we "technically" don't know yet if Schaub is done for yet. We have an idea, but it is not written in stone yet.
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Old 11-22-2011   #35
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Martz took a guy with 11 career throws and turned him into a Super Bowl MVP after his starting QB went down in 1999. Kurt Warner would say Martz' offense is very friendly.
Quarterback unfriendly = QB takes a lot of punishment.
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Old 11-22-2011   #36
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

I haven't read many of the Bears quotes after Cutler went down. Only what's been printed on ESPN and on Sportscenter. But my first impression is that the Texans players who've been interviewed have a lot more confidence in Matt Leinart stepping up with Schaub out than the Bears players do in Caleb Hanie. It seems like most Texans players interviewed have had positive things to say about Hanie. Most Bears players that I've heard seem to ignore him and say they need to step up their own play. It has been a small sample size though.
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Old 11-22-2011   #37
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
Cutler's more important to the Bears, I think.
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Martz took a guy with 11 career throws and turned him into a Super Bowl MVP after his starting QB went down in 1999. Kurt Warner would say Martz' offense is very friendly.
Don't forget that Hanie came in to play after Cutler was injured and Collins bombed in the NFC Championship game. Hanie almost brought the Bears back to win against Rodgers and the Packers. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201101...ts&tab=analyze

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Originally Posted by awc713 View Post
are we not forgetting that cutler is out 6-8 weeks?

meaning he could hypothetically play in the playoffs. the bears still have a decently easy schedule, with the afc west still left on their radar. so they might not be completely f'ed. set back, but not f'ed.
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And we "technically" don't know yet if Schaub is done for yet. We have an idea, but it is not written in stone yet.
Thus the reason I made the comparison. Both QBs went down on teams that appeared to be playoff bound, and both QB could come back before the season ends. Both teams also have stout defenses and both have one of the League's best RBs in Foster and Forte.

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Originally Posted by TexanSam View Post
I haven't read many of the Bears quotes after Cutler went down. Only what's been printed on ESPN and on Sportscenter. But my first impression is that the Texans players who've been interviewed have a lot more confidence in Matt Leinart stepping up with Schaub out than the Bears players do in Caleb Hanie. It seems like most Texans players interviewed have had positive things to say about Hanie. Most Bears players that I've heard seem to ignore him and say they need to step up their own play. It has been a small sample size though.
Again, Hanie almost won the NFC Championship Game for the Bears against the Pack and Rodgers. Sure, it could have just been "one of those days", but he obviously has a handle on the system much like Leinart does here in Houston.
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Old 11-22-2011   #38
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
A lot of people are looking at GreenBay as the template for the "correct" way to bring along a QB prospect. Sit him behind a guy who can get the job done for a couple of years or so then let him lose.
TK, why would you want him to "lose" as opposed to cutting him "loose"?
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Old 11-22-2011   #39
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

In Pete Prisco's weekly power rankings he discusses the similarities and differences between the Bears and Texans' situation.

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For Houston, it shouldn't end its playoff hopes. The Texans have essentially a three-game lead in the division with six to go.
Here's the link for the rest:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/powerrankings
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Old 11-22-2011   #40
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Default Re: Schaub + Texans = Cutler + Bears????

It is just the next man up for both teams I hope they do well.
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