Cam vs Tebow....

[thunderkyss]

Cam is playing the position as well as any rookie could be expected to play the position. Maybe better.

Tebow... isn't.

Cam has 2 wins in 10 attempts.

Tebow has 4 wins in 5 starts.


I'm not saying nothing.... just want to know what you guys think.

[brakos82]

I could post this question on facebook and get a Panthers and Broncos fans battling it out with their respective Cam and Tebow smilies.

Meanwhile I like Dalton better.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Cam has way more upswing .

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Cam is playing the position as well as any rookie could be expected to play the position. Maybe better.

Tebow... isn't.

Cam has 2 wins in 10 attempts.

Tebow has 4 wins in 5 starts.


I'm not saying nothing.... just want to know what you guys think.

A QB doesn't get wins. The team gets wins. Do away with this misconception that a football QB is somehow like a baseball pitcher. And that's exactly what the above "stats" show.

[Playoffs]

Cam's toolbox:

Tebow's toolbox:

[BullNation4Life]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Cam is playing the position as well as any rookie could be expected to play the position. Maybe better.

Tebow... isn't.

Cam has 2 wins in 10 attempts.

Tebow has 4 wins in 5 starts.


I'm not saying nothing.... just want to know what you guys think.

Tebow has a far better defense than Cam does. Give Cam Denver's Defense, he probably has 5-6 wins...

[Hervoyel]

Two or three years from now Tebow will be trying to get invited to someone's camp. Newton will be playing the Pro Bowl.

[eriadoc]

People that give wins and losses to QBs annoy the crap out of me. Unfortunately, that seems to be damn near everyone involved in football. Even otherwise intelligent fans who argue the same point will relapse and assign wins and losses when it's a QB they care one way or another about.

[Dutchrudder]

Tebow: All he does is win!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

People that give wins and losses to QBs annoy the crap out of me. Unfortunately, that seems to be damn near everyone involved in football. Even otherwise intelligent fans who argue the same point will relapse and assign wins and losses when it's a QB they care one way or another about.

Agreed.

My point with this thread, is that maybe everyone is looking at the QB position wrong.

Winning & losing is about the team in the NFL. Offense, defense, special teams.

Our team has been lacking on field leadership for a long time. We've got an extremely talented bunch of guys out there, but who is leading them?

Cam is a great player..... so was McNabb. But who is leading that team?

Tebow is not nearly as talented as half the QBs in the league. But he instills a confidence in his team that gets them to play to the best of their ability.

You can't teach those intangibles. You can't fake it. You either got them or you don't.

Now Tebow seams to be the extreme case.... leadership without the necessary tools to play QB in this league.

Dalton, the second round pick, seems to be just the right mix.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Our team has been lacking on field leadership for a long time.

Says who? Where is the Texan player saying this? Just because you can't see it in some sort of hysterical tirade makes it true? Every single Texan player interview I have heard has been positive on Schaub's leadership including how they have confidence in Leinart because he has been trying to be like Schaub. That is leadership.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Says who? Where is the Texan player saying this? Just because you can't see it in some sort of hysterical tirade makes it true? Every single Texan player interview I have heard has been positive on Schaub's leadership including how they have confidence in Leinart because he has been trying to be like Schaub. That is leadership.

Thank you for your opinion.

[badboy]

I think Schaub like Tebow is with the right team. Both are leaders in my view.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Says who? Where is the Texan player saying this? Just because you can't see it in some sort of hysterical tirade makes it true? Every single Texan player interview I have heard has been positive on Schaub's leadership including how they have confidence in Leinart because he has been trying to be like Schaub. That is leadership.

I think the public often reads too much into body language. Schaub has a very calm demeanor. He's not jumpy and doesn't yell. He stays cool and collective, and every once in awhile, you'll catch a grimace on his face. And somehow from that folks will make the jump in logic that he's not a leader.

Look at the situation last playoffs with Cutler and the Bears. Body language was read that he's not tough and did not want to compete. Yet guys like Urlacher come out and defend him with an attitude. You won't see a pro-bowler like him defending a QB that he doesn't believe in.

The entire Texans team has a very laid back personality to it. Even our two biggest superstars - AJ & Mario - are very relaxed on the field and off. Then look at Arian, Tate, Daniels, Winston, and just about every one of them that makes media appearances and it's a very cool bunch of dudes. The only guy with any kind of mouth to him is Antonio Smith, and even he is not fiery as 'the ninja'.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I think the public often reads too much into body language. Schaub has a very calm demeanor. He's not jumpy and doesn't yell. He stays cool and collective, and every once in awhile, you'll catch a grimace on his face. And somehow from that folks will make the jump in logic that he's not a leader.

I would like a fiery leader type.... but it's not essential. The reason I don't think Schaub is a leader, & he very well may be, is that if I'm a player on any team, before I stretch out for a catch, or throw my whole body into a block, or try to split two 300lbers, I'd like to know everyone else on my team will do the same, that includes & most specifically the QB.

Back in 2009, remember Andre fighting his way into the endzone? last year, remember Cortland innegand?

Schaub had his moments as well, 2009, 2010, even this year, that last drive against Oakland, he put it all on the line.

I'm sorry, but I have not been seeing that from our QB on a consistent basis. I don't think he's giving 110% so I don't see how he can be asking others to give 100%

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Look at the situation last playoffs with Cutler and the Bears. Body language was read that he's not tough and did not want to compete. Yet guys like Urlacher come out and defend him with an attitude. You won't see a pro-bowler like him defending a QB that he doesn't believe in.

The entire Texans team has a very laid back personality to it. Even our two biggest superstars - AJ & Mario - are very relaxed on the field and off. Then look at Arian, Tate, Daniels, Winston, and just about every one of them that makes media appearances and it's a very cool bunch of dudes. The only guy with any kind of mouth to him is Antonio Smith, and even he is not fiery as 'the ninja'.

Did you see Terrell Owens crying about the way Romo was being treated in the media? He's a Pro-bowler, a HOFer..... did you buy it?

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I'm sorry, but I have not been seeing that from our QB on a consistent basis. I don't think he's giving 110% so I don't see how he can be asking others to give 100%

Most of your posts, I just sort of roll my eyes, chuckle, and move on. I seldom see any reason to openly ridicule your ludicrous statements and opinions, because you're a very respectful poster and I value presentation over opinion, since everyone has a differing opinion.

This is just beyond ludicrous, though. You have nothing to back up such a claim. I'm not a Schaub fan. I wanted the trade, I was happy when they got him, and I was optimistic as hell about him. I've since come to the conclusion that he's not much more than a stat jockey. But I have NO reason to question his leadership and neither do you.

There comes a point of silliness beyond which everyone ceases to take you seriously, you know.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Most of your posts, I just sort of roll my eyes, chuckle, and move on. I seldom see any reason to openly ridicule your ludicrous statements and opinions, because you're a very respectful poster and I value presentation over opinion, since everyone has a differing opinion.

This is just beyond ludicrous, though. You have nothing to back up such a claim. I'm not a Schaub fan. I wanted the trade, I was happy when they got him, and I was optimistic as hell about him. I've since come to the conclusion that he's not much more than a stat jockey. But I have NO reason to question his leadership and neither do you.

There comes a point of silliness beyond which everyone ceases to take you seriously, you know.

I think Schaub is more than a stat junkie. I think he's a good QB and I think he is an ok leader just from what I have observed. I think guys like him, respect him, feel they have a chance to win when he is on the field.

But it's nearly impossible to tell exactly how much influence Schaub's leadership has on players unless you are in that locker room.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Most of your posts, I just sort of roll my eyes, chuckle, and move on. I seldom see any reason to openly ridicule your ludicrous statements and opinions, because you're a very respectful poster and I value presentation over opinion, since everyone has a differing opinion.

This is just beyond ludicrous, though. You have nothing to back up such a claim. I'm not a Schaub fan. I wanted the trade, I was happy when they got him, and I was optimistic as hell about him. I've since come to the conclusion that he's not much more than a stat jockey. But I have NO reason to question his leadership and neither do you.

There comes a point of silliness beyond which everyone ceases to take you seriously, you know.

Let's think about what I'm saying here. In 2009 & 2010 when we found ourselves in a shootout for every game, we saw Matt Schaub play a certain way... right or wrong?

IMO, when we need a score, he's going to stay in the pocket & take that hit as he waits till the last second to throw the ball, waiting for a receiver to uncover, or get to the top of his route, or waiting for the safety to make a choice.

I made the same observation before the 2009 season & mentioned how much Matt had changed that season & how that was more like what I was wanting to see.

My observation this season is the same. On third down, when we have to make a play, I'd like to see Matt make that play. When he leaves the pocket, I know he's going to throw it away. He'll look down field, but if there's nothing there.. it's going out of bounds.

Say what you want, but if any of our other players were to say, "F@# it, it just wasn't there." on any down, much less third, we'd all be having a fit.

Again, not saying that Matt should be forcing anything... just narrow his definition of wiiiiidddeeee open. Make something happen, make a play. Don't give up so easy.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Let's think about what I'm saying here.

As I'm typing this, I'm also watching highlights from this weeks games.

I see QBs playing the way I like to see the game played.

I'm thinking about Romo, Farve, McNabb... those guys do so much, that they actually hide weaknesses on the team. A really good coach would be able to see what is actually happen & continue to fix the real issues & not waste time trying to fix the QB... trying to get the QB to cover up even more weaknesses.

When I think of a QB, a leader, I'm thinking about that guy that hides those other weaknesses as the "ideal" QB.

Maybe you guys are right, maybe Kubiak has the master plan all set up & maybe this is the "most complete" team in the NFL.

I've been wrong before.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Rey

I think Schaub is more than a stat junkie. I think he's a good QB and I think he is an ok leader just from what I have observed. I think guys like him, respect him, feel they have a chance to win when he is on the field.

But it's nearly impossible to tell exactly how much influence Schaub's leadership has on players unless you are in that locker room.

The only way that the public can even get a glimpse of what the locker room perceives about a QB is how they play on the field and what the players say about him during interviews.

All indications are that this team has never quit on Kubiak or Schaub on the field, and they have nothing but praise for both of them in the media.

So from our (fans) viewpoint, I see nothing tangible that would reveal any kind of division within the locker room about Schaub.

Perhaps there is something and I have missed it. But when everyone, including defensive players, are endorsing a QB, then that says a lot to me.