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Old 11-21-2011   #41
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Right, but those QB's were considered great for a reason.

Unless we are going to put Schaub in the same category as thos guys I don't understand the point.
OK, first off tired of the "don't bring up a great one for comparison " argument. I didn't say Schaub was a hall of famer. I said (as if this should need translation) even hall of famers throw errant balls.

Really you don't get the point? GOOD QB'S MAKE BAD THROWS (or if this really needed to be said, wide receivers sometimes run bad routes and make throws look off). Frankly Manning throws ugly and errant balls a lot. Schaub has a better completion percentage than all the QB's I mentioned. Schaub had the 2nd highest ypa without AJ and with a crew many folks say needs to be upgraded. I don't know what it is about Houston fans. Talk crap about something good you have and then complain the folks in town are too soft on the team and "this would never be acceptable in New York."
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Old 11-21-2011   #42
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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OK, first off tired of the "don't bring up a great one for comparison " argument. I didn't say Schaub was a hall of famer. I said (as if this should need translation) even hall of famers throw errant balls.

Really you don't get the point? GOOD QB'S MAKE BAD THROWS (or if this really needed to be said, wide receivers sometimes run bad routes and make throws look off). Frankly Manning throws ugly and errant balls a lot. Schaub has a better completion percentage than all the QB's I mentioned. Schaub had the 2nd highest ypa without AJ and with a crew many folks say needs to be upgraded. I don't know what it is about Houston fans. Talk crap about something good you have and then complain the folks in town are too soft on the team and "this would never be acceptable in New York."
Well to be fair, bad QBs sometimes make great throws... it's all about the ratio... This year Schaub has made some great throws and has made some bad throws... he's running about average this year IMO, and I'm a Schaub guy...

but since we're talking about Schaub and great throws, my favorite was against Oakland when Walter made a diving 49 yd catch... I remember a lot of people saying that Walter bailed Schaub out on that pass, but I completely disagreed... He wasn't going to hit Walter in stride and he knew Walter is no 'Dre, and wasn't going to put a lot of air under the ball and let Walter go up and get it... he pretty much darted a laser to Walter, who was tightly covered, and Walter dove and made a finger-tip grab... I guess a lot of people just focused on the way Walter caught it, and decided it was more of a great catch than a great pass, but Walter didn't "have" to dive for it... he could have kept running but jump both foward and up and it would have hit him in the right spot... I've seen a lot of those go to the house, as the receiver is able to shove the defender down into the ground after landing, high-stepping out of the arms and cruising to the 'zone...

It was a great catch still, but it was for sure a great pass...
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Old 11-21-2011   #43
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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OK, first off tired of the "don't bring up a great one for comparison " argument. I didn't say Schaub was a hall of famer. I said (as if this should need translation) even hall of famers throw errant balls.

Really you don't get the point? GOOD QB'S MAKE BAD THROWS (or if this really needed to be said, wide receivers sometimes run bad routes and make throws look off). Frankly Manning throws ugly and errant balls a lot. Schaub has a better completion percentage than all the QB's I mentioned. Schaub had the 2nd highest ypa without AJ and with a crew many folks say needs to be upgraded. I don't know what it is about Houston fans. Talk crap about something good you have and then complain the folks in town are too soft on the team and "this would never be acceptable in New York."
I was watching that game last night and thinking the same thing: if Schaub ever had a game as bad as Eli's, he would get relentlessly persecuted by Texan fans. Amazing what one fluke playoff run, a dropped interception by Asante Samuel, and an amazing catch has done for that guy's reputation.

The reality is that Schaub is not among the elite 5 or 6 QBs in the NFL. After that, he's in the next group. Who is better/ not better is dependent on the system, coaching, etc... Just because this team may continue to win without Schaub doesn't diminish his value. I remember in 1991, Aikman went down with an injury at this point in the season and Steve Beuerlein won the final 5 games of the regular season and the first round of the playoffs. I'm hopeful for something similar. Still, it won't change my view of Matt Schaub as one of the 10 best QBs in the NFL.
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Old 11-21-2011   #44
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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OK, first off tired of the "don't bring up a great one for comparison " argument. I didn't say Schaub was a hall of famer. I said (as if this should need translation) even hall of famers throw errant balls
I think you completely missed the point of my comment. Which is understandable since anytime someone mentions Schaub in an unglowing fashion it seems to really bother you.

But my point was that yes...Great players sometimes have bad plays but those players are considered great for a reason. Their bad plays are not amplified because they do so many other things great.

In typing this post I have realized what the point was. You hold Schaub in a very high regard...High enough that you feel like his bad plays and missed throws should not be talked about...

If I'm correct and that is your point, I disagree on all accounts.
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Old 11-21-2011   #45
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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I think you completely missed the point of my comment. Which is understandable since anytime someone mentions Schaub in an unglowing fashion it seems to really bother you.

But my point was that yes...Great players sometimes have bad plays but those players are considered great for a reason. Their bad plays are not amplified because they do so many other things great.

In typing this post I have realized what the point was. You hold Schaub in a very high regard...High enough that you feel like his bad plays and missed throws should not be talked about...

If I'm correct and that is your point, I disagree on all accounts.

Schaub, for a 3rd year in a row, is in the top 7 in almost every significant passing category. This year, he has accumulated those stats without much help from AJ. Last year, he did it with a hobbled AJ. He managed this team and offense beautifully through a four game winning streak. One of the biggest criticisms about him was his inability to stay healthy. This Sunday, will be the first game he hasn't started for the Texans since the fall of 2008. Why would Texan fans complain about the guy? I don't get it. I'd love to have a Hall of Fame talent at QB but I'll take a limited but excellent QB (like the one we have).
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Old 11-21-2011   #46
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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The reality is that Schaub is not among the elite 5 or 6 QBs in the NFL. After that, he's in the next group. Who is better/ not better is dependent on the system, coaching, etc... Just because this team may continue to win without Schaub doesn't diminish his value. I remember in 1991, Aikman went down with an injury at this point in the season and Steve Beuerlein won the final 5 games of the regular season and the first round of the playoffs. I'm hopeful for something similar. Still, it won't change my view of Matt Schaub as one of the 10 best QBs in the NFL.

I remember when Sage was here and there was a good portion of the fan base that wanted him to start over Schaub.

I didn't agree with that, but I will say that when Schaub went out and Sage came in, I didn't feel like the bottom was going to fall out. Sage has a winning record as a starter. He played pretty well here. Folks remember the Rosencopter moment, but overall he played well enough to be traded for a mid round draft pick.

Since then, Sage has not achieved anywhere near the "success" that he had achieved in this system.

Matt has gotten better since he has been here. So has the talent around him.

The likely scenario is that Leinart comes in and plays well, but is not at the level that Schaub is/was at. But Leinart will have to be pretty bad to come in and be detrimental to the team. If he is just ok I think we will be fine. Ok is what I'm hoping for from him. If he exceeds that I think it's just gravy.
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Old 11-21-2011   #47
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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Why would Texan fans complain about the guy? I don't get it.
Some people want a fiery coach.

I want a fiery QB. I was happy with Schaub, happy enough. I never was one of those, "he'll never take us to the Super Bowl" guys. But if Leinart becomes our MVP (I know it isn't likely to happen) over the next 9 weeks, I'm open to making the switch.
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Old 11-21-2011   #48
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

Who the hell cares who the goddamn QB is as long as we are winning?

Schaub is a fantastic QB for our system, and he'll be missed. It's not likely Leinart will be as good as Schaub, most especially in his first few games. But if he is, that would be fantastic. I don't care if Gomer Pyle isn't the QB anymore, as long as Hot Tub can hand off and make those roll out passes.
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Old 11-21-2011   #49
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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Who the hell cares who the goddamn QB is as long as we are winning?

Schaub is a fantastic QB for our system, and he'll be missed. It's not likely Leinart will be as good as Schaub, most especially in his first few games. But if he is, that would be fantastic. I don't care if Gomer Pyle isn't the QB anymore, as long as Hot Tub can hand off and make those roll out passes.
Agreed
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Old 11-21-2011   #50
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

I think that Leinart can manage the game. We're probably not going to blow out teams anymore 41-7, but we can still win. Leinart needs to be able to make the throws he can, and I imagine Kubiak will gameplan for Leinart's ability.

Schaub's a good QB in a great system and Kubiak has figured out how to maximize that. I think at this point in his career, Leinart has shown us what he can and can't do. Kubiak is going to get more out of Leinart than AZ did, but I still think that will be less than what Kubiak can get out of Schaub.
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Old 11-21-2011   #51
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

Gomer Pyle!

Gomer Pyle!


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Old 11-21-2011   #52
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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Funny how you weren't able to recognize "hope" when the Raiders made their trade for Carson Palmer; which by the way is working out rather well if I must say so myself.
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Being this is a Texans board, I felt my time would be better spent pissing in your cheerios
Which would be a great excuse if that conversation took place on the Texan's board, instead it was on the NFL board and I joined in a discussion already in progress.
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Old 11-21-2011   #53
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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Why would Texan fans complain about the guy? I don't get it.
Please show me one time where I have mentioned the word "complain" in relation to Schaub.

I specifically said "talk about".

He's the QB....A position that is naturally amplified and deservedly so. Are you new to sports? Certain players/positions receive a lot of scrutiny. It is what it is.

Quote:
I'd love to have a Hall of Fame talent at QB but I'll take a limited but excellent QB (like the one we have).
See this is where I think the divide is at with me and you/Cak/others...

It seems like you guys believe that the next step up from Schaub is Hall of Famer. Maybe I'm wrong in my observation, but from the way you guys post it seems like many people believe Schaub is the next best thing to a hall of famer.

I disagree with that. I think that it's possible to get better at the position without overflowing into hall of fame caliber QB.

I see you guys keep mentioning his stats and the yardage he threw for, but for the one year he threw for the most yards he also led the league in attempts. He threw the ball well regardless, but that was the only year I think he was in the top 5 in passing yards...The year when he threw it more than everyone else in the league...

Matt has had one great year and the rest have been ok to very good.

But beyond stats, I look at the games this year and Matt has been helped out tremendously by play calls and WR's making great plays. Every throw should not be fit through a keyhole, but he's rarely done that. Lots of easy yardage accumulated for him. Not a complaint because I like to win, but if I'm evaluating him honestly that comes into play. When I think about whether or not another QB could make some of the throws he has that is a thought that crosses my mind.

That said, my only real problem about Schaubs game in general is the fact that he's not a great red zone passer.

There are other areas where he is not great at, but that is the only thing that I just generally don't like.

But overall, he's a guy that can help you win (I don't like to use the term 'win with' because that implies that the player is dead weight or holds you back in some regard). He does a lot of things well. The one thing that he has done an excellent job at this year that I'm concerned about with Leinart is keeping good rythm. Even after bad plays he's kept the offense from getting too erratic. They have overall played well in every game this year and that is a credit to Shammy. He has been a + for this offense overall.

Hopefully Leinart can come in and be almost as good.
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Old 11-21-2011   #54
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

I wonder what the real reason is that Leinart decided to stay in houston ? He could of went and competed in Seattle where Pete Carrol is the Coach and i know that Leinart would have a better shot playing in a College Coaches system.

Maybe kubiak has hinted to him that when Schaubs contract is over he will become the starter ?!?!?!? i doubt it but it just makes me wonder why he stayed to be a back-up instead of going out to compete to be a starter. Maybe he thinks Kubiak can transform him into Tom Brady
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Old 11-21-2011   #55
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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Maybe kubiak has hinted to him that when Schaubs contract is over he will become the starter ?!?!?!? i doubt it but it just makes me wonder why he stayed to be a back-up instead of going out to compete to be a starter. Maybe he thinks Kubiak can transform him into Tom Brady
One of my biggest complaints about Rick Smith (& Kubiak) is that they "appear" to have a difficult time selling the Houston Texans to FAs. We've got the best WR (arguably) in the league. We've got the best running game (arguably) in the league. We've got a ton of young talent on both sides of the ball...

But if we aren't offering the most money, we can't get a decent FA in here.

I think that changed this offseason. We've got JJo & Manning. Manning was coming home after being to the championship level.... Jjo was probably on the first thing smoking out of Cincy... but he did land here.

I think they sold Leinart on how special his opportunity is here.

That or he found a little lady in Houston that he wasn't ready to leave.
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Old 11-21-2011   #56
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

Schaub is one of the best QBs in the league. If he wins a couple of SBs, he'll be in the Hall of Fame.

He has not done enough to get into the Hall. He's not even in the conversation about getting in the Hall until he wins at least one. But if he wins a couple of SBs? He's in.

And there's no reason why he can't win a couple of SBs. You don't win SBs based on how great the QB is, you win SBs on how great the team is. Schaub is good enough to put up big numbers in this offense if that's what's needed and he's steady enough to be satisfied with small numbers if that will get the job done.

But with that said, I'm a Texan fan. I want the best person at each position that gives the Texans the best chance to win. If Leinart comes in and kicks ass or if T.J. Yates comes in and kicks ass or if they decide over the offseason to move up to draft RGIII, I'm fine with that. If the FO decides that this guy or that guy gives us a better chance to win, I'm fine as long as they're right.

I want Schaub to do great and to win SBs for us. But I'm not married to the guy. I will root for him to win and win big as long as he's our QB.
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Old 11-21-2011   #57
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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I want Schaub to do great and to win SBs for us. But I'm not married to the guy.
Mr. & Mr. Pencil Neck announce the birth of their first child, Schaubcil Neck Jr. At first it was thought little Schaubcil was born with a football in his hand, but it turned out to be a bottle of chardonnay and a badminton racket. The lawyers have been in called for the replay.
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Old 11-21-2011   #58
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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I think that the majority of responses that Leinart is going to be fine are just people trying to stay positive and hoping for a positive outcome. That includes my own. I understand what we're looking at here and what the worst case scenario is. I just refuse to be negative. This season took almost ten weeks to put me in a good mood and I refuse to relinquish that good mood until facts demonstrate that I have to.

tier.
Ten weeks? It took ten years to put this fanbase in this type mood this late into the season.
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Old 11-22-2011   #59
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post

I think they sold Leinart on how special his opportunity is here.

That or he found a plethora of little ladies in Houston that he wasn't ready to leave.
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Old 11-22-2011   #60
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Default Re: Burge:Is Matt Schaub underappreciated?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think they sold Leinart on how special his opportunity is here.
Leinart would have signed with Seattle had the Seahawks not signed Tavaris Jackson. He felt betrayed by Pete Carill. And we don't know if Leinart had any other offers besides Houston and Seattle.
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