Just my evaluation of Matt Leinart

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

You should have plenty of examples, can you show me a few?

Or you can go to the gamebook and point to a play, and I can take screen shots of that play to see if your statement is true.

I would say that a lot of the stuff he showed in the Saints game is what gave me this general opinion. He only tried a few deep throws (Which were a little off) and the short stuff wasn't really that impressive to me. He did look better against the 9'ers, and respectable enough vs the Vikings, but that Saints game bugged me about him.

I will say that I feel way better about Leinart being here as the next backup than Rex Grossman or Dan Orlovsky.

[TexanFan881]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

LOL, the controversy thread is down the hall, to your left. j/k

The only thing I concluded is that Leinart looks to be at least a game manager.
Whether he can put it together (to be good-very good) when the games count is still up in the air (IMO).
I don't set up any expectation for myself.
I'm prepared for us to get into the play-offs with a non-stellar record.
That's all I want for now until we can see more in the next few games.

I can't help if others are homies!

But honestly, I think Leinart can put up good productions because we haven't had Schaub throwing as much as last year, and AJ will be coming back.

My post isn't all directed towards you. And I'm not trying to start something, just my opinion. But you stated after most of your evaluation that Leinart was as good as or better than Schaub in each category. I do not see much criticism at all regarding your evaluation. From reading your posts, its hard not to become a homer.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/1...remains-cloudy

One last thing on the Texans. Anyone who believes Matt Leinart will lead the Texans to a Super Bowl post-Schaub hasn't seen him play. He is easily one of the worst quarterbacks I've seen in the last three years or so in the NFL. He is painfully inaccurate, has no pocket presence, very little arm strength and isn't a leader. Other than that, he'll be just fine.

That's my opinion and it seems to vary greatly with yours and most people on this board. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

[TexCanada]

Originally Posted by TexanFan881

Is this everyone's way of dealing with Schaub's loss? Is pretending that Leinart will be as good or better than him? Wow you guys are in denial. Leinart may be able to manage the game. He will NOT be better than Schaub. There will not be a QB controversy. Schaub was only the fourth QB in history to throw for 9,000 yards over 2 years. He has thrown 2.5 TDs to 1 INT this year. Expecting this kind of production from Leinart is ridiculous. To think there will be no drop off is ridiculous. It's like when we expect undrafted players to make an impact on our team their rookie season. We are putting ridiculous expectations on this guy. Lets be happy if we go 3-3. Stop setting up for disappointment. Nobody seems to realize we went 7-3 with a passing game. Expecting to go 4-2 without one to finish the season is a very high expectation. I appreciate the insight on his play and the evaluation. But we are being huge homers here. Lets be realistic please.

4-2 sounds ridiculous....until you look at the remaining schedule. 4-2 is very reasonable IF Matt2 can hit an open receiver and avoid throwing 2 or more picks a game. If he goes out there and is completely awful, then yes, 2-4 is probably more likely.

Schaub's stats in the last 4 wins:

Titans: 18/23, 296 yards, 2TD
Jags: 16/30, 225, 1TD
Browns: 14/23, 119, 0TD, 1 Int
TB: 11/15, 242, 2TD

Solid, yes, but not spectacular. I think its safe to assume that Matt2 will mix in a few more mistakes then Matt1, but considering all of those wins were blowout wins, it is not unreasonable to think that we can still win a few close games with Matt2 running the show.

[TexanFan881]

Originally Posted by TexCanada

4-2 sounds ridiculous....until you look at the remaining schedule. 4-2 is very reasonable IF Matt2 can hit an open receiver and avoid throwing 2 or more picks a game. If he goes out there and is completely awful, then yes, 2-4 is probably more likely.

Schaub's stats in the last 4 wins:

Titans: 18/23, 296 yards, 2TD
Jags: 16/30, 225, 1TD
Browns: 14/23, 119, 0TD, 1 Int
TB: 11/15, 242, 2TD

Solid, yes, but not spectacular. I think its safe to assume that Matt2 will mix in a few more mistakes then Matt1, but considering all of those wins were blowout wins, it is not unreasonable to think that we can still win a few close games with Matt2 running the show.

I know, but without the threat of a passing game its going to make it a lot harder to run the ball. We will not be able to run the ball 65% of the time (like we have over the past 4 weeks) and be successful when they stack 8 guys in the box. And when we throw the ball, they will bring pressure to force Matt2 to make mistakes. The reason Matt1 was a game manager is because the defense respected him. That's not the case with Matt2. Which is why I believe he needs to be more than a game manager to be successful and why he will be unsuccessful.

In years past we have used the running game to open up the pass game. Hasn't anyone else noticed we've flip flopped that philosophy this year? We come out passing then run late. If we can't establish the passing game, there will be no run game. Or we have to establish the running game to open the passing game, which I don't think will work. Because the defense is expecting it. But again, we will see.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Rey

The play fake is in the design of the plays and the O-line and doesn't really depend on a great sell by the QB.

Oline has to seel the play as if it's a run and the play design is set up so that the pass and run plays look the same from the WR'S and TE's, to the RB's and O-line...

The first couple seconds of the play should feel the same.

That's why guys are constantly coming wide the hell open...

Wow that is so wrong. Lots of teams, basically all of them, run play fakes and don't end up with receivers coming wide the hell open. That is a combination of Kubiak's play design and Schaub's excellence, as in at the top of the league, play fake. Contrast Carr for instance who had a miserable play fake. That 1 or more seconds of extra recognition time because the fake is so bad is extremely important to the success of the play.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by TexanFan881

The reason Matt1 was a game manager is because the defense respected him.

Matt Schaub is a good QB.

That said, I don't think a defense can stack the box to stop the running game, bite on play action and show respect to Schaub's throwing ability. At least not all on the same play.

I don't even know where this game manager stuff comes from. Matt Schaub made some plays. Hell, just recently has he been able to go into captain mode and just steer. In my opinion Shammy is above a game manager.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Wow that is so wrong. Lots of teams, basically all of them, run play fakes and don't end up with receivers coming wide the hell open. That is a combination of Kubiak's play design and Schaub's excellent as in at the top of the league play fake.

Cak, you are incorrect and don't know what you are talking about.

And I am talking abou the Texans offense...Not offenses around the NFL...

The plays, routes and blocking are designed to look a like. The QB being houdinini with the ball has a whole lot less to do with a good PA vs. the O-lineman firing out as if it is a run and making the LB's and D-lineman react as if it were a run...

[TexanFan881]

Originally Posted by Rey

Matt Schaub is a good QB.

That said, I don't think a defense can stack the box to stop the running game, bite on play action and show respect to Schaub's throwing ability. At least not all on the same play.

I don't even know where this game manager stuff comes from. Matt Schaub made some plays. Hell, just recently has he been able to go into captain mode and just steer. In my opinion Shammy is above a game manager.

If you read my previous posts in the last page of this thread, I definitely agree he's a top 10 QB. And that he can't be replaced. I'm talking to the people who believe we won't miss a beat because Schaub was just a "game manager" and that's all we need. And to the people talking about Leinart coming out and possibly taking Schaub's job.

People are saying the Leinart only has to be a game manager. I believe that couldn't be farther from the truth.

And the reason our play fakes and bootlegs are so successful are because of Schaub. There is nobody better in the NFL at the fake and throwing on the run in my opinion. Leinart will not be able to replicate that, let alone any other QB in the NFL.

[TexanFan881]

And as far as the play fakes...it's a little of both the OL and the QB. But the QB has to do their job as well. If the OL makes it look like a run but the QB doesn't even fake it, then it's obviously a pass play. So the fake does have to be somewhat effective. The play-action is a team effort, not on just the OL or on the QB

[HJam72]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Wow that is so wrong. Lots of teams, basically all of them, run play fakes and don't end up with receivers coming wide the hell open. That is a combination of Kubiak's play design and Schaub's excellence, as in at the top of the league, play fake. Contrast Carr for instance who had a miserable play fake. That 1 or more seconds of extra recognition time because the fake is so bad is extremely important to the success of the play.

Heck, he probly faked it to McKinney.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Rey

Cak, you are incorrect and don't know what you are talking about.

And I am talking abou the Texans offense...Not offenses around the NFL...

The plays, routes and blocking are designed to look a like. The QB being houdinini with the ball has a whole lot less to do with a good PA vs. the O-lineman firing out as if it is a run and making the LB's and D-lineman react as if it were a run...

BS and it isn't Texans unique. Every team schemes for the plays to look the same. No f@#king duh. That is the point of the play. The ability of the QB to sell it well makes a difference. But I guess carry on with your delusion any QB can run it equally as well.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by TexanFan881

And as far as the play fakes...it's a little of both the OL and the QB. But the QB has to do their job as well. If the OL makes it look like a run but the QB doesn't even fake it, then it's obviously a pass play. So the fake does have to be somewhat effective. The play-action is a team effort, not on just the OL or on the QB

My point is that the QB doesn't have to be great at hiding the ball because the LB's and D-line can't see the ball a lot of times and key off of where and how bodies are moving.

Sure the QB needs to look like he's handing it off, but that is inherent in a playfake...


But the O-line and RB are the ones that really sell the Play action. The QB hiding the ball well or acting well is more like sprinkles than the actual ice cream.

[bajabill42]

I divide Matt into two Parts......NOT Whisenhunt and Whisenhunt, and I throw away the Whisenhunt part as the Ravings of a petty small man. Matt wasn't good in HS, he was GREAT......Matt wasn't good at USC, he was GREAT......eg. in 2004 he and AARON RODGERS were 1st team All-PAC10...though Matt was PAC10 MVP, repeating for a 2nd year(Only other QB to do that was JOHN ELWAY....and soon to be ANDREW LUCK). Denny Green picked him over to start over FHOF KURT WARNER as a rookie.

I've heard 2 criticisms of Matt that make some sense.......not a weak arm(Sample said 2 things Surprised him in coming from the Jets to the Cards....how good DRC was, and THE STRENGTH OF MATT'S ARM). Mayock said the ONLY reason Matt wasn't a force in the NFL was priorities(God, Family and Football) weren't right. Someone else(Lombardi?) said Matt waited for his receivers to come OPEN before delivering. The first is likely the case and the second may have been, his rookie year......but, I hear and suspect both have been corrected.

I do not expect Matt to be a decent replacement for Schaub, I do not expect him to be good.......if Kubiak has undone the Whisenhunt years psychologically and Matt hasn't let his skills go stale.....I expect Matt to be GREAT......and nothing less than a SuperBowl appearance will do......MATT and AARON back at it........I'll take HOUSTON and MATT......Fight ON!!!

[TexanFan881]

Originally Posted by Rey

My point is that the QB doesn't have to be great at hiding the ball because the LB's and D-line can't see the ball a lot of times and key off of where and how bodies are moving.

Sure the QB needs to look like he's handing it off, but that is inherent in a playfake...


But the O-line and RB are the ones that really sell the Play action. The QB hiding the ball well or acting well is more like sprinkles than the actual ice cream.

Again I agree to a point. I still feel like it is a team effort. Everyone has to do their jobs. It may be true that the OL and the RB are the most important, but that doesn't mean the QB's job on selling the play fake is unimportant. And you need every piece for it to be executed properly.

[TejasTom]

Originally Posted by TexanFan881

I know, but without the threat of a passing game its going to make it a lot harder to run the ball. We will not be able to run the ball 65% of the time (like we have over the past 4 weeks) and be successful when they stack 8 guys in the box...

They have been stacking the box and with 80 on the field they would respect the pass if the water boy was in at quarterback.

[TexanFan881]

Originally Posted by bajabill42

I divide Matt into two Parts......NOT Whisenhunt and Whisenhunt, and I throw away the Whisenhunt part as the Ravings of a petty small man. Matt wasn't good in HS, he was GREAT......Matt wasn't good at USC, he was GREAT......eg. in 2004 he and AARON RODGERS were 1st team All-PAC10...though Matt was PAC10 MVP, repeating for a 2nd year(Only other QB to do that was JOHN ELWAY....and soon to be ANDREW LUCK). Denny Green picked him over to start over FHOF KURT WARNER as a rookie.

I've heard 2 criticisms of Matt that make some sense.......not a weak arm(Sample said 2 things Surprised him in coming from the Jets to the Cards....how good DRC was, and THE STRENGTH OF MATT'S ARM). Mayock said the ONLY reason Matt wasn't a force in the NFL was priorities(God, Family and Football) weren't right. Someone else(Lombardi?) said Matt waited for his receivers to come OPEN before delivering. The first is likely the case and the second may have been, his rookie year......but, I hear and suspect both have been corrected.

I do not expect Matt to be a decent replacement for Schaub, I do not expect him to be good.......if Kubiak has undone the Whisenhunt years psychologically and Matt hasn't let his skills go stale.....I expect Matt to be GREAT......and nothing less than a SuperBowl appearance will do......MATT and AARON back at it........I'll take HOUSTON and MATT......Fight ON!!!

This is what all of my posts have been directed at. People like this. HAHAHA. I really do wish I could still be drinking that kool aid props to you though!

[HJam72]

Originally Posted by bajabill42

I divide Matt into two Parts......NOT Whisenhunt and Whisenhunt, and I throw away the Whisenhunt part as the Ravings of a petty small man. Matt wasn't good in HS, he was GREAT......Matt wasn't good at USC, he was GREAT......eg. in 2004 he and AARON RODGERS were 1st team All-PAC10...though Matt was PAC10 MVP, repeating for a 2nd year(Only other QB to do that was JOHN ELWAY....and soon to be ANDREW LUCK). Denny Green picked him over to start over FHOF KURT WARNER as a rookie.

I've heard 2 criticisms of Matt that make some sense.......not a weak arm(Sample said 2 things Surprised him in coming from the Jets to the Cards....how good DRC was, and THE STRENGTH OF MATT'S ARM). Mayock said the ONLY reason Matt wasn't a force in the NFL was priorities(God, Family and Football) weren't right. Someone else(Lombardi?) said Matt waited for his receivers to come OPEN before delivering. The first is likely the case and the second may have been, his rookie year......but, I hear and suspect both have been corrected.

I do not expect Matt to be a decent replacement for Schaub, I do not expect him to be good.......if Kubiak has undone the Whisenhunt years psychologically and Matt hasn't let his skills go stale.....I expect Matt to be GREAT......and nothing less than a SuperBowl appearance will do......MATT and AARON back at it........I'll take HOUSTON and MATT......Fight ON!!!

At this rate, the Texans are going to win the Pro-Bowl too.

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by Rey

My point is that the QB doesn't have to be great at hiding the ball because the LB's and D-line can't see the ball a lot of times and key off of where and how bodies are moving.

Sure the QB needs to look like he's handing it off, but that is inherent in a playfake...


But the O-line and RB are the ones that really sell the Play action. The QB hiding the ball well or acting well is more like sprinkles than the actual ice cream.

No the QB does have to be good at hiding the ball and selling the fake because LB's and DB's can see what is going on in the backfield around and through the O-line and they can tell when a QB is already looking downfield to throw or is holding the ball up to throw too early after the supposed fake.

Having a QB who can sell the fake is just as important, if not moreso, than what the RB does and what the O-line does in a PA situation.

[TexanFan881]

Originally Posted by TejasTom

They have been stacking the box and with 80 on the field they would respect the pass if the water boy was in at quarterback.

Would you respect the pass against the Cardinals with Max Hall at QB and Larry Fitzgerald at WR?

[Rey]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

BS and it isn't Texans unique. Every team schemes for the plays to look the same. No f@#king duh. That is the point of the play. The ability of the QB to sell it well makes a difference. But I guess carry on with your delusion any QB can run it equally as well.

No, cak...Every team does not scheme for plays to look the same.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.

The Texans major PA play is the Naked bootleg where they get the defense flowing one direction and boot leg out the other way...It's called a naked bootleg because the O-line doesn't block the DE really....

Instead they rely on selling the run and getting him to chase down the line. Sometimes a TE will fake like he is run blocking him to slow him down some and then peel off into a route.

Every team does not utilize playaction and have guys come wide the hell open to the degree that we do. Yeah right.

Most of Matt's biggest passing plays have come because someone was left wide the hell open because of the play design. Not because he did a great job at selling the play fake...Are you serious?