How awful was Frank Bush? - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

**gtexan02** · 11-13-2011

Watching this defense, with mostly the same players, is just incredible to me.

I realize Joseph and Watt have made big improvements, but still. Wow.

Its amazing what a sane coaching system can do

The Pencil Neck · 11-13-2011

And Smith before him.

It's insane.

**ATXtexanfan** · 11-13-2011

sucked but the blame falls on kubes, he hired him and the goon before him

HJam72 · 11-13-2011

How awful is Kubiak at hiring Defensive Coordinators?

This is why I don't believe in letting HCs have any say at all in hiring the "opposing" coordinator. They got there because they know one side of the ball really well and assuming they know the other side (which sounds great in theory) just isn't true at all...

I wouldn't let Wade Phillips choose my OC either...

LikeMike · 11-13-2011

I don`t wanna give any props to Bush... but there is a huge difference in the personell:

Cushing was out half the season
Ryans was out half the season
Barwin was out all the season
KJ was a rookie
JA came in late
no Reed
no Watt
no Joseph
no Manning (although he`s out now)

Still - Bush was aweful. This year`s defensive personell is better than last years defensive personell - but not nearly as much as the improvement on the field is showing.

Wolf · 11-13-2011

thunderkyss · 11-13-2011

Does anyone know who the 49ers DC is?

TexanBacker93 · 11-13-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Does anyone know who the 49ers DC is?

Yeah. It's Vic Fangio.

DocBar · 11-13-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Does anyone know who the 49ers DC is?

Why yes, I do. Vic Fangio. Gee, where have I heard that name before?

sometexansfan · 11-13-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Does anyone know who the 49ers DC is?

Yep our old "pal" Vic Fangio.

HJam72 · 11-13-2011

We could have just kept him until this year...

BlueSteel · 11-13-2011

For me the proof was in the players opinions.

One morning on SR610 Demeco was asked about the defense and he basically said, "We go where the coaches put us where we agree with it or not."

He didn't come right out and say it but he made it clear Bush was not using players strengths or putting them in a position to succeed.

**playa465** · 11-13-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by HJam72

How awful is Kubiak at hiring Defensive Coordinators?

This is why I don't believe in letting HCs have any say at all in hiring the "opposing" coordinator. They got there because they know one side of the ball really well and assuming they know the other side (which sounds great in theory) just isn't true at all...

I wouldn't let Wade Phillips choose my OC either...

You do realize that the OC and DC are part of the HC's staff. They are underneath the HC so why wouldn't he have a say, hell he hires them. I know you said its your preference, but has this ever been this case? I think we all agree that Wade and the currents players are making a huge difference.

HJam72 · 11-13-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by playa465

You do realize that the OC and DC are part of the HC's staff. They are underneath the HC so why wouldn't he have a say, hell he hires them. I know you said its your preference, but has this ever been this case? I think we all agree that Wade and the currents players are making a huge difference.

I understand the risk of incoherency in the organization that you're talking about, but I just think it's worth the risk. I don't have much faith in coaches to evaluate the guy on the other side of the ball. Defensive head coaches (like Capers) just want the O to run, run, run and don't seem to appreciate the skill involved in O-linemen and coaching necessary for successful QB play. Offensive HCs (like Kubiak) don't seem to have a clue what it takes to get a secondary that can cover their own complicated route patterns and a front seven that can frustrate their own well-coached QB.

Maybe it's kind of like a work-team scenario. Eventually, you will get the best performance if you do not let the workers choose their own buddies to work with, because you don't want a bunch of people that all think alike. You want different kinds of people that come up with different ideas, so that you can choose all of the best ideas (although some will be out there ridiculous) to get the best overall achievement.

All I know is this: extreme success on one side of the ball doesn't mean you know squat about running or choosing the leader for the other side.

**ObsiWan** · 11-13-2011

yeah... because when the DC and OC are hired by a third party (HC or GM) they always have such marvelous rapport

houstonspartan · 11-13-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by playa465

You do realize that the OC and DC are part of the HC's staff. They are underneath the HC so why wouldn't he have a say, hell he hires them. I know you said its your preference, but has this ever been this case? I think we all agree that Wade and the currents players are making a huge difference.

Um, but, look at what happens when Bob McNair takes the coordinator hiring away from Gary Kubiak.

If Gary had been allowed to hire his own coordinator, we would be - at best - 5-5 right now - bet on it.

Ladies and gentlemen, this was Bob McNair's doing.

**playa465** · 11-13-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by HJam72

I understand the risk of incoherency in the organization that you're talking about, but I just think it's worth the risk. I don't have much faith in coaches to evaluate the guy on the other side of the ball. Defensive head coaches (like Capers) just want the O to run, run, run and don't seem to appreciate the skill involved in O-linemen and coaching necessary for successful QB play. Offensive HCs (like Kubiak) don't seem to have a clue what it takes to get a secondary that can cover their own complicated route patterns and a front seven that can frustrate their own well-coached QB.

Maybe it's kind of like a work-team scenario. Eventually, you will get the best performance if you do not let the workers choose their own buddies to work with, because you don't want a bunch of people that all think alike. You want different kinds of people that come up with different ideas, so that you can choose all of the best ideas (although some will be out there ridiculous) to get the best overall achievement.

All I know is this: extreme success on one side of the ball doesn't mean you know squat about running or choosing the leader for the other side.

I get your position...while I don't think Kubiak is dumb to the D, I think he put much trust into unproven DCs. Whatever it was I'm glad his desperation led us to Wade...I wonder who else was on the list, what if Wade hadn't got fired from the Cowpukes? To the topic, I think Frank Bush was in over his head

11-13-2011	#1
gtexan02 Working? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Boston Age: 29 Posts: 15,334 Rep Power: 34917	How awful was Frank Bush? Watching this defense, with mostly the same players, is just incredible to me. I realize Joseph and Watt have made big improvements, but still. Wow. Its amazing what a sane coaching system can do __________________ Adios until next season. See you then

11-13-2011	#2
The Pencil Neck Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Age: 51 Posts: 14,421 Rep Power: 45686	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? And Smith before him. It's insane. __________________ Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.

11-13-2011	#3
ATXtexanfan Site Contributor Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: leander, tx Age: 35 Posts: 2,525 Rep Power: 3467	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? sucked but the blame falls on kubes, he hired him and the goon before him

11-13-2011	#4
HJam72 Hall of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Over here. Age: 40 Posts: 10,472 Rep Power: 18004	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? How awful is Kubiak at hiring Defensive Coordinators? This is why I don't believe in letting HCs have any say at all in hiring the "opposing" coordinator. They got there because they know one side of the ball really well and assuming they know the other side (which sounds great in theory) just isn't true at all... I wouldn't let Wade Phillips choose my OC either... __________________

11-13-2011	#5
LikeMike All Pro Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Cologne, Germany Posts: 685 Rep Power: 3271	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? I don`t wanna give any props to Bush... but there is a huge difference in the personell: Cushing was out half the season Ryans was out half the season Barwin was out all the season KJ was a rookie JA came in late no Reed no Watt no Joseph no Manning (although he`s out now) Still - Bush was aweful. This year`s defensive personell is better than last years defensive personell - but not nearly as much as the improvement on the field is showing.

11-13-2011	#6
Wolf 100% Texan Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kerrville Age: 43 Posts: 35,830 Rep Power: 40809	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? __________________ People who say that they don't know what to get me for my birthday have obviously never been to a liquor store

11-13-2011	#7
thunderkyss Hopkins Beyatch Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pt Arthur Texas Age: 40 Posts: 25,733 Rep Power: 51478	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? Does anyone know who the 49ers DC is? __________________ I swear it's for real this time!

11-13-2011	#11
HJam72 Hall of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Over here. Age: 40 Posts: 10,472 Rep Power: 18004	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? We could have just kept him until this year... __________________

11-13-2011	#12
BlueSteel Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 123 Rep Power: 149	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? For me the proof was in the players opinions. One morning on SR610 Demeco was asked about the defense and he basically said, "We go where the coaches put us where we agree with it or not." He didn't come right out and say it but he made it clear Bush was not using players strengths or putting them in a position to succeed. __________________

11-13-2011	#15
ObsiWan Contributor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: League City, Tx Age: 61 Posts: 10,070 Rep Power: 36703	Re: How awful was Frank Bush? yeah... because when the DC and OC are hired by a third party (HC or GM) they always have such marvelous rapport

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Remove advertisements Sponsored links