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Old 11-12-2011   #21
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
The 2009 draft is the best of all time for the Texans?

Seriously?

LMAO.

Um, the 2006 Texans draft is probably considered one of the best draft classes in all of the NFL over the last decade. Now, MAYBE the 2009 class will EVENTUALLY catch up. They certainly have the potential. But for now, it's too soon to tell.

But for now, no draft class from this team can touch 2006.
We're not debating which draft class is the better, at least I don't think so.

When we do, we need to consider that the 06 class started with a #1 pick and the 2011 class started with a #11 pick.
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Old 11-12-2011   #22
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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We're not debating which draft class is the better, at least I don't think so.

When we do, we need to consider that the 06 class started with a #1 pick and the 2011 class started with a #11 pick.
The original post was about the significant impact the 2009 draft class was having on this season. It's hard to argue, with intellectual honesty, that they have been remarkable this year and are the primary reason for the success.

That being said, if anyone wants to argue about which class is "better", I'll take the 2009 class any day of the week.

Other than Andre Johnson, Brian Cushing is the best player to ever wear a Texans' jersey. Other than Andre Johnson and Brian Cushing, Arian Foster is the best player ever to wear a Texans' jersey.

Beyond the 2nd and 3rd greatest Texans ever, the draft includes 5 key members of one of the best defenses in the NFL:
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan
Tim Jamison

It also includes a great running game's best blocking FB, who also happens to be the best receiving FB in the NFL: James Casey.

The worst pick of this amazing draft appears to be the Texans primary backup Center and Guard who played hundreds of snaps as part of a very good OL in 2010.

Yeah, how could anyone think this draft is on par with 2006?
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Old 11-12-2011   #23
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

i think it's fair to call this a homerun draft, though i dont think anything will touch 06. we grabbed 4 probowlers (winston will be) and that doesnt include what i will forever think was a first ballot HOF left tackle in charles spencer.

i also dont think it's too early to call the 09 draft a great success. cushing is all-pro. barwin is producing as a starter and moved to anchor in our #1 defense. caldwell is a serviceable backup. quinn was our best corner last year and is progressing into a pretty dang good safety. casey has proven his versatility and is a stud as a 5th round pick. mccain and nolan are both still on the roster and performing above where their draft status would suggest.

1 all pro, 3 starters, 3 backups, and one bust (hill) ... monster draft. if we stretch it into foster and jamison, it becomes truely awesome, but that is venturing into a bit of hindsight (if not outright luck).
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Old 11-12-2011   #24
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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i think it's fair to call this a homerun draft, though i dont think anything will touch 06. we grabbed 4 probowlers (winston will be) and that doesnt include what i will forever think was a first ballot HOF left tackle in charles spencer.

i also dont think it's too early to call the 09 draft a great success. cushing is all-pro. barwin is producing as a starter and moved to anchor in our #1 defense. caldwell is a serviceable backup. quinn was our best corner last year and is progressing into a pretty dang good safety. casey has proven his versatility and is a stud as a 5th round pick. mccain and nolan are both still on the roster and performing above where their draft status would suggest.

1 all pro, 3 starters, 3 backups, and one bust (hill) ... monster draft. if we stretch it into foster and jamison, it becomes truely awesome, but that is venturing into a bit of hindsight (if not outright luck).

Any draft is subject to "luck". After all, anytime a team makes a great pick it is dependent on others missing the player before them. The Foster signing has less to do with luck than any other pick, because Smith outbid the Bears for him and offered him an unprecedented 2 year contract to steal him away from Chicago.
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Old 11-12-2011   #25
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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I said that Caldwell would not replace Myers when I analyzed his college game tapes.
Even in his 2nd PS, I said he will not have an easy time trying to displace Brisiel from the Guard spot.
I think drafting Caldwell put Brisiel on notice

He was hurt in 2009, that was the year we went 9-7 & Brisiel missed 11 games. We didn't have a run game in 2009. Not until Arian Foster that is.

2010 Brisiel came back & shared time with Caldwell. Very much like what is going on with Allen & Kj. However judging from our run game of 2010 & 2011 I would assume Brisiel starting is more because he is doing a good job than Caldwell not doing a good job.

It would be like drafting a developmental center one year & having Nick Mangold drop in your lap. Mangold's going to play. But just because your draft pick doesn't beat him out in camp doesn't mean he can't play.
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Old 11-12-2011   #26
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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I think drafting Caldwell put Brisiel on notice

He was hurt in 2009, that was the year we went 9-7 & Brisiel missed 11 games. We didn't have a run game in 2009. Not until Arian Foster that is.

2010 Brisiel came back & shared time with Caldwell. Very much like what is going on with Allen & Kj. However judging from our run game of 2010 & 2011 I would assume Brisiel starting is more because he is doing a good job than Caldwell not doing a good job.

It would be like drafting a developmental center one year & having Nick Mangold drop in your lap. Mangold's going to play. But just because your draft pick doesn't beat him out in camp doesn't mean he can't play.
Caldwell played pretty well last year. He lost the competition for RG this year, primarily due to his injured ankle.
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Old 11-12-2011   #27
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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Any draft is subject to "luck". After all, anytime a team makes a great pick it is dependent on others missing the player before them. The Foster signing has less to do with luck than any other pick, because Smith outbid the Bears for him and offered him an unprecedented 2 year contract to steal him away from Chicago.
Sometimes I wonder about a GM's or teams draft mind set when they draft player A who has very little chance of making the team but go hard after player B who went undrafted & passed on by every team in every round? Is it possible they feel smarter than the next guy & expect him to go undrafted or do they make mistakes losing where they are on their draft board? I distinctly remember Foster getting a 2nd rd. grade if he had come out his Junior year but instead opted to return to Tennessee to finish school & play one more year of College ball then he got hurt. Still, should have been drafted by some team. Give Rick credit for making an offer Foster could not refuse but also certainly there was an element of luck involved as well
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Old 11-12-2011   #28
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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Sometimes I wonder about a GM's or teams draft mind set when they draft player A who has very little chance of making the team but go hard after player B who went undrafted & passed on by every team in every round? Is it possible they feel smarter than the next guy & expect him to go undrafted or do they make mistakes losing where they are on their draft board? I distinctly remember Foster getting a 2nd rd. grade if he had come out his Junior year but instead opted to return to Tennessee to finish school & play one more year of College ball then he got hurt. Still, should have been drafted by some team. Give Rick credit for making an offer Foster could not refuse but also certainly there was an element of luck involved as well
That's the thing. You wouldn't have to make Foster an offer he couldn't refuse if you just drafted him in the 7th round. It's hard to call Rick a genius if he couldn't recognize an all-pro running back enough to draft him over a backup safety.
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Old 11-12-2011   #29
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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The original post was about the significant impact the 2009 draft class was having on this season. It's hard to argue, with intellectual honesty, that they have been remarkable this year and are the primary reason for the success.

That being said, if anyone wants to argue about which class is "better", I'll take the 2009 class any day of the week.

Other than Andre Johnson, Brian Cushing is the best player to ever wear a Texans' jersey. Other than Andre Johnson and Brian Cushing, Arian Foster is the best player ever to wear a Texans' jersey.

Beyond the 2nd and 3rd greatest Texans ever, the draft includes 5 key members of one of the best defenses in the NFL:
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan
Tim Jamison

It also includes a great running game's best blocking FB, who also happens to be the best receiving FB in the NFL: James Casey.

The worst pick of this amazing draft appears to be the Texans primary backup Center and Guard who played hundreds of snaps as part of a very good OL in 2010.

Yeah, how could anyone think this draft is on par with 2006?

Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison are replacement level guys and wouldn't be playing if the Texans had somebody better. Casey seems promising, but has had one good game as a pro, and is the second best blocking FB on the team (out of two), and only really stands out because the H-back position has gone out of style leaguewide since teams have moved to more shotgun formations.

It's a good draft-- heck, Cushing and Foster by themselves probably make it great no matter who else we drafted-- but don't act like it's some legendary, '74 steelers type thing.
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Old 11-12-2011   #30
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
The original post was about the significant impact the 2009 draft class was having on this season. It's hard to argue, with intellectual honesty, that they have been remarkable this year and are the primary reason for the success.

That being said, if anyone wants to argue about which class is "better", I'll take the 2009 class any day of the week.

Other than Andre Johnson, Brian Cushing is the best player to ever wear a Texans' jersey. Other than Andre Johnson and Brian Cushing, Arian Foster is the best player ever to wear a Texans' jersey.

Beyond the 2nd and 3rd greatest Texans ever, the draft includes 5 key members of one of the best defenses in the NFL:
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan
Tim Jamison

It also includes a great running game's best blocking FB, who also happens to be the best receiving FB in the NFL: James Casey.

The worst pick of this amazing draft appears to be the Texans primary backup Center and Guard who played hundreds of snaps as part of a very good OL in 2010.

Yeah, how could anyone think this draft is on par with 2006?
You must be drunk or something. The 2006 Draft class is the foundation of this team.
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Old 11-12-2011   #31
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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You must be drunk or something. The 2006 Draft class is the foundation of this team.
Kinda dependson what you think of MW and Winston.

BTW, I agree with you on 2006 being the best draft in Texans history. However there's a case to be made. Foster and Cushing have made more of an impact than anybody in the 2006 draft. IMHO
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Old 11-12-2011   #32
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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Kinda dependson what you think of MW and Winston.

BTW, I agree with you on 2006 being the best draft in Texans history. However there's a case to be made. Foster and Cushing have made more of an impact than anybody in the 2006 draft. IMHO
This whole discussion is rather pointless. The 2006 draft class provided the foundation of what has evolved into a very solid team. Every year we've added significant pieces - some years more of the pieces worked than others. I would say that Foster and Cushing are the final pieces to the monster that we're building but I'm betting that the 2011 draft class will be the best because I'm including Wade Phillips in that class. Yeah, I said it. Wade Phillips, as DC, is the biggest pickup in franchise history.

Ladies and gents, we finally have a legitimate football team.
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Old 11-12-2011   #33
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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Yeah, I said it. Wade Phillips, as DC, is the biggest pickup in franchise history.
Wait a minute.... the 4 years prior to Kubiak getting here, the offense was just as pathetic as the defense, ranking near the bottom in every offensive category.

Six years later (gosh has it been that long???? ) I think it is safe to say it is no fluke that the offense consistently rates with the better offenses in the league.

We do (as fans tend to when the team is losing) question the validity of that offense, mainly because it seems to struggle from time to time, last year as well as this season, despite knocking out 5,000+ yard seasons.
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Ladies and gents, we finally have a legitimate football team.
Both sides of the ball, Offense & Defense, & the Special teams is at least middle of the road.
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Old 11-12-2011   #34
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

This thread is making hindsight look like foresight.
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Old 11-12-2011   #35
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison are replacement level guys and wouldn't be playing if the Texans had somebody better. Casey seems promising, but has had one good game as a pro, and is the second best blocking FB on the team (out of two), and only really stands out because the H-back position has gone out of style leaguewide since teams have moved to more shotgun formations.

It's a good draft-- heck, Cushing and Foster by themselves probably make it great no matter who else we drafted-- but don't act like it's some legendary, '74 steelers type thing.
It's not legendary yet. I happen to think it is going to be.

Regarding Casey, you aren't watching the Texans with an open mind if you actually think Vickers has been the better blocker of the two. That's absurd!

I'm not sure your point about Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison... There's always someone better somewhere. If the Texans had someone better than Andre Johnson, he'd be playing instead. It amazes me at the cynicism of some. Those were four excellent picks and instead of embracing them, you would rather diminish their play. I don't get it. Those are 4 heavy contributors to the topped ranked defense in the NFL... By the way, all 4 of them are making a bigger impact on the defense than Mario Williams is currently and they will continue to be more relevant to the Texans first playoff appearence in their 10 year history than Mario will be.
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Old 11-12-2011   #36
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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This thread is making hindsight look like foresight.
No need to bring circumcision into the discussion.
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Old 11-12-2011   #37
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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This whole discussion is rather pointless. The 2006 draft class provided the foundation of what has evolved into a very solid team. Every year we've added significant pieces - some years more of the pieces worked than others. I would say that Foster and Cushing are the final pieces to the monster that we're building but I'm betting that the 2011 draft class will be the best because I'm including Wade Phillips in that class. Yeah, I said it. Wade Phillips, as DC, is the biggest pickup in franchise history.

Ladies and gents, we finally have a legitimate football team.
Exactly. The whole thing started with 2006, and we have added since then.
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Old 11-12-2011   #38
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Default Re: 2009 draft class

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That's the thing. You wouldn't have to make Foster an offer he couldn't refuse if you just drafted him in the 7th round. It's hard to call Rick a genius if he couldn't recognize an all-pro running back enough to draft him over a backup safety.
With this logic I guess all the GM's in the NFL are a bunch of morons since they all passed on Foster. At least Rick was smart enough to offer a 2 year deal!
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Old 11-12-2011   #39
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It's a good draft-- heck, Cushing and Foster by themselves probably make it great no matter who else we drafted-- but don't act like it's some legendary, '74 steelers type thing.

Only time will tell!

I know some will say Foster and Jamison weren't drafted so they don't count. On the other hand, how many rounds was the draft back in 1974 compared to now? Either way, for the Texans, both 2006 and 2009 were very good drafts, and that's what you need to do to build championship teams! McNair has always said he wants an organization like the Steelers. He may be on his way!
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Old 11-12-2011   #40
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It's not legendary yet. I happen to think it is going to be.

Regarding Casey, you aren't watching the Texans with an open mind if you actually think Vickers has been the better blocker of the two. That's absurd!

I'm not sure your point about Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison... There's always someone better somewhere. If the Texans had someone better than Andre Johnson, he'd be playing instead. It amazes me at the cynicism of some. Those were four excellent picks and instead of embracing them, you would rather diminish their play. I don't get it. Those are 4 heavy contributors to the topped ranked defense in the NFL... By the way, all 4 of them are making a bigger impact on the defense than Mario Williams is currently and they will continue to be more relevant to the Texans first playoff appearence in their 10 year history than Mario will be.

Come on man, take off the goggles and try to be even a little objective.
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