New franchise tag (doesn't relate to Mario)

[Dutchrudder]

I think if mario hits free agency he ends up in Carolina or Denver. Both are 4-3 defenses that need at least one more DE, and both are going to need to up their cap numbers for 2013 when the 89% minimum kicks in.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Then if that's reasonable to the Patriots (as opposed to some dumbass like Jerrah or Snyder) then that's what I would pay Mario.

Yep, that was what I was thinking last night. Mario will be Texan next year. BTW he has a beautiful home in Houston.


Mario Williams, the Houston Texans' much-debated No. 1 draft pick, has purchased a home with its own share of controversy.

The newly rich National Football League rookie bought the spacious, Mediterranean-style house from ousted Texas Southern University President Priscilla Slade for about $1.5 million, according to records filed last week.

The 6,000-square-foot house near Memorial Park gained notoriety as part of a spending scandal that led to Slade's firing and a criminal investigation.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...de-1851416.php

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

We'll see.

Usually these big time FAs want to go to a championship contender. If we're ranked anywhere near #1 defensively & get to the AFC Championship Game, we'll be that team.

Being that Mario was drafted by the Texans & treated pretty well by the Texans, he may have no intentions of signing with anyone but the Texans..... like Andre.

As long as we offer him something reasonable (& I don't know what that is) the Franchise tag may not even come close to being a possibility.

Regardless where he goes, his guaranteed money will be more than the franchise tag. We could offer him $40 million guaranteed on a 6 year deal, back loaded where his average cap hit would be $10 million a year.

Loaded heavily on the last 2 years, so it would basically be a 4 year contract with the understanding that it would be redone for the 2016 season.

We save $3 million over his current cap hit, he averages $1M+ more a year, & he's got $40 million in his pocket.

Definitely doable if Mario is willing to go for it. I suspect his agent will want him to hit the free agent market though.

Originally Posted by Insideop

I'm not sure, but weren't we in "cap hell" back then with big contracts to some players who were not even on the team anymore? Plus, I think resigning HWSNBN had just been completed. That might have had something to do with back loading Mario's contract.

2010 was an uncapped year, so there was no 'cap hell' to speak of. Paying him an extra 2 million to re-do his contract to swap the 2010 and 2011 salaries would have been a smart thing to do. Could have franchised him and been in a great position to negotiate a good deal for both sides. Now if we franchise him, it puts management in a precarious position for negotiations, much like the Dunta situation.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by badboy

Yep, that was what I was thinking last night. Mario will be Texan next year. BTW he has a beautiful home in Houston.


Mario Williams, the Houston Texans' much-debated No. 1 draft pick, has purchased a home with its own share of controversy.

The newly rich National Football League rookie bought the spacious, Mediterranean-style house from ousted Texas Southern University President Priscilla Slade for about $1.5 million, according to records filed last week.

The 6,000-square-foot house near Memorial Park gained notoriety as part of a spending scandal that led to Slade's firing and a criminal investigation.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...de-1851416.php

Wow! I had no idea Mario lived in my neighborhood! I'm pretty sure I know where this house is...



Edit: Found it! 203 Terrace Drive, just off of Memorial.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=203+Te...5utRorNveMpKCw

I mostly recall this house because of the absurd number of security cameras on it. Didn't know the backstory though, so that explains it!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Now if we franchise him, it puts management in a precarious position for negotiations, much like the Dunta situation.

The tag on Dunta was what? $9-10Million?

If I were in the F.O. & I offered him a top 5 CB contract, I'd have been doing backflips if he turned it down. I'd be on every Houston T.V. & radio station saying, "We offered him top 5 CB money & he turned it down, don't know what else we could have done. As a GM I humbled myself, put that personal stuff aside, but he just did not want to be a Houston Texans."

& closed the book on that whole ordeal.

In other words, I wouldn't have franchised him the first time. Release him, make it look like the Texans are doing him a favor ala David Carr... but let him go.

[badboy]

I think for a multi millionaire, it was a good and reasonable buy for the money. IIRC, he bought this just after the incident with the police and him speeding. Bob called him in for a chat and told him to grow up. Mario appreciated way Mr. McNair handle the incident and bought the house to show maturity and settling down. He'd be pleased to know you are a neighbor. I think you should walk over and take a bundt cake or something. Probably more effective than sending thousands of text messages & let him know fans want him to re-sign with Texans.

[badboy]

DR's deal:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2774/dunta-robinson

[x]3/5/2010: Signed a six-year, $57 million contract. The deal contains $25.5 million guaranteed, including a $7 million signing bonus. Robinson will also receive $5 million in option bonuses. 2011: $5.5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2012: $6 million, 2013: $7 million, 2014: $9 million, 2015: $9.5 million, 2016: Free Agent

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by badboy

Franchise me if you want, $16.56 m will look good in my checking account, but I want and you want a long term reasonable deal. My first contract except for the last year was overwhelmingly in team's favor so let's not focus on 2011 & forget the other five years. Here's what I want:

How was the first contract in the Texans' favor? Almost half of it was paid to Mario as a signing bonus $26M...

Originally Posted by badboy

5 years $70 million. $15m upfront prorated over 5 years = $3m to add to my cap figure. The remaining $55m to be paid as follows year one $8m +3 (11 cap) year 2 $10m +3 ($13m cap) year 3 $12m +3 ($15) year 4 &5 12.5m + $3 each.

This is Peppers last deal

The contract is worth $91.5 million with $42 million guaranteed. Peppers will make $40.5 million over the first three years. The number could increase if he makes the Pro Bowl, records a certain number of sacks or is defensive player of the year.

Paying Peppers $40.5 in the first 3 years means a cap number upwards of $13M, which is the killer (kicker) if you ask me. But I think Smith & the cap dude should be able to get Mario something similar & use the 6 years & salary structure to get a low cap number, but put a lot of money in Mario's pocket.

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Regardless where he goes, his guaranteed money will be more than the franchise tag. We could offer him $40 million guaranteed on a 6 year deal, back loaded where his average cap hit would be $10 million a year.

Loaded heavily on the last 2 years, so it would basically be a 4 year contract with the understanding that it would be redone for the 2016 season.

We save $3 million over his current cap hit, he averages $1M+ more a year, & he's got $40 million in his pocket.

Something like this. Remember, most contracts are not played all the way through, the length of the contract is just a way to manipulate the cap.

[ChampionTexan]

Originally Posted by badboy

Here's what I want:

5 years $70 million. $15m upfront prorated over 5 years = $3m to add to my cap figure. The remaining $55m to be paid as follows year one $8m +3 (11 cap) year 2 $10m +3 ($13m cap) year 3 $12m +3 ($15) year 4 &5 12.5m + $3 each.!

Considering that Peppers got $42 Million (50%) guaranteed on a 6 year, $84 Million contract (2010), Haloti Ngata got $37 Million (60%) guaranteed on a Five year $61 Million contract (2011) and Tamba Hali got $35 Million (58%) guaranteed on a Five year $60 Million deal (2011), I believe your overall economics are definitely in line, but $15 Million (21%) guaranteed would very likely be a deal killer from Mario's standpoint. While the big numbers are attention getting, but numbers that far and away are given the most weight by players and agents are the guaranteed ones.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

How was the first contract in the Texans' favor? Almost half of it was paid to Mario as a signing bonus $26M...


This is Peppers last deal


Paying Peppers $40.5 in the first 3 years means a cap number upwards of $13M, which is the killer (kicker) if you ask me. But I think Smith & the cap dude should be able to get Mario something similar & use the 6 years & salary structure to get a low cap number, but put a lot of money in Mario's pocket.


Something like this. Remember, most contracts are not played all the way through, the length of the contract is just a way to manipulate the cap.

The guarantee Mario got was less than #1s were getting regardless of position. His base salary for first 5 yrs was $3m or less. First year was only $275,000. The guarantee was not up front money. His bonus consisted of incentive bonuses each year and not paid up front. Do you think any agent would allow the #1 pick to sign a deal like that now?


Barring career ending injury, Mario age is appropriate for a 6 year deal and he could collect the 6th @ age 32.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan

Considering that Peppers got $42 Million (50%) guaranteed on a 6 year, $84 Million contract (2010), Haloti Ngata got $37 Million (60%) guaranteed on a Five year $61 Million contract (2011) and Tamba Hali got $35 Million (58%) guaranteed on a Five year $60 Million deal (2011), I believe your overall economics are definitely in line, but $15 Million (21%) guaranteed would very likely be a deal killer from Mario's standpoint. While the big numbers are attention getting, but numbers that far and away are given the most weight by players and agents are the guaranteed ones.

You are confusing bonus $ and guaranteed money; two different things. I would save the guaranteed money to be used during the negotiation to solidify the deal. The $15m I mentioned is paid upfront and allows the first year to be substantially low. Texans breathed sigh of relief when DR took his pay me Ric shoes to Atlanta for $7m bonus + $5m option bonus & $25.5m guaranteed.

Let's say you guaranteed Mario's first two years ($18m) + his $15m bonus is $33million. That is pretty good and reasonable. You do have the 2011 IR deal to negotiate with from GM's standpoint.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

The tag on Dunta was what? $9-10Million?

If I were in the F.O. & I offered him a top 5 CB contract, I'd have been doing backflips if he turned it down. I'd be on every Houston T.V. & radio station saying, "We offered him top 5 CB money & he turned it down, don't know what else we could have done. As a GM I humbled myself, put that personal stuff aside, but he just did not want to be a Houston Texans."

& closed the book on that whole ordeal.

In other words, I wouldn't have franchised him the first time. Release him, make it look like the Texans are doing him a favor ala David Carr... but let him go.

It was 10 million, which was about half of the guaranteed money reportedly offered to him in a deal from the Texans. So he decided to sit out OTAs and take that one year deal, then go out in free agency to get a big contract. Worked out for him, and Mario could do the same knowing that nobody is going to offer him over 12 million a year. 16.56 mill would be pretty sweet for anyone that's not a top 5 QB.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by badboy

The guarantee Mario got was less than #1s were getting regardless of position. His base salary for first 5 yrs was $3m or less. First year was only $275,000. The guarantee was not up front money. His bonus consisted of incentive bonuses each year and not paid up front. Do you think any agent would allow the #1 pick to sign a deal like that now?

If these numbers are true,

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Look at the numbers:

Year Base Salary Misc. Bonus Cap Hit
2006 275,000 - 1,350,000 - 1,625,000
2007 975,000 - 1,350,000 - 2,325,000
2008 2,350,000 - 1,350,000 - 3,700,000
2009 2,875,000 - 1,350,000 - 4,225,000
2010 3,025,000 - 1,350,000 - 4,375,000
2011 13,800,000 - 1,350,000 - 15,150,000
2012 UFA

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-t...ario-williams/

So the total was 54 million with an average salary was 9 million.

We're still missing $22.6 Million. That $22.6 Million had to be paid as a bonus, lump sum payment of some kind for him to average $9 million/year.

I doubt any agent would think of incentivised bonus money as "guaranteed" money.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

We're still missing $22.6 Million. That $22.6 Million had to be paid as a bonus, lump sum payment of some kind for him to average $9 million/year.

I doubt any agent would think of incentivised bonus money as "guaranteed" money.

Folks, these numbers are some of the most misreported figures around. Look at the original reports on Chris Johnson. Now it turns out he can be cut after this year and the Tacks don's owe him the remainder of the "guaranteed" money. So really, not guaranteed at all.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Folks, these numbers are some of the most misreported figures around. Look at the original reports on Chris Johnson. Now it turns out he can be cut after this year and the Tacks don's owe him the remainder of the "guaranteed" money. So really, not guaranteed at all.

Do you remember what Mario's signing bonus was?

[JVL713]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Wow! I had no idea Mario lived in my neighborhood! I'm pretty sure I know where this house is...



Edit: Found it! 203 Terrace Drive, just off of Memorial.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=203+Te...5utRorNveMpKCw

I mostly recall this house because of the absurd number of security cameras on it. Didn't know the backstory though, so that explains it!

He moved from there a year or two ago. He lives a little further down Memorial now on Little John. Just look for the huge "MW" emblem on the front gate

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Do you remember what Mario's signing bonus was?

He signed a deal with no signing bonus but with guaranteed salaries. I believe there was an initial roster bonus of a few million.

[TEXANRED]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Do you have a problem with Mario with a cap number between $11M & $15.5M?

I could give two figs and a left flip flop about how much he makes next year, it's not my money, sign the man. And on the same note as much money as I have spent on this team I expect McNair to spend his money on fielding a great team and getting us to the Super Bowl.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

I could give two figs and a left flip flop about how much he makes next year, it's not my money, sign the man. And on the same note as much money as I have spent on this team I expect McNair to spend his money on fielding a great team and getting us to the Super Bowl.

Well, some people do care. Since it is a capped league, each team only has so much to spend. Some fans (NFL fans, not just Texans fans) really get into cap management. I don't know why but it makes for interesting conversation some times.

Now that there is a floor, there will be some new players who will overspend, drive up the price on players just to meet the minimum requirement.

I asked if $11 M was a problem for him, to get a feel for what he thought was a fair & reasonable number. & it appears that it was. The problem is, like I said, some team has enough room to offer Mario $14 - $16 Million/year to get him.

I'm a Mario fan, but if his cap number will be that far off "customary & reasonable" then I'm afraid I would prefer he walks.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Folks, these numbers are some of the most misreported figures around. Look at the original reports on Chris Johnson. Now it turns out he can be cut after this year and the Tacks don's owe him the remainder of the "guaranteed" money. So really, not guaranteed at all.

Just like Peyton Manning's new contract was reported by everyone to be a $90 million 5-year fully guaranteed contract. Now we find out that the Colts can opt out of the last 4 years of the contract.........with only $26 million in total guaranteed........