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Old 11-08-2011   #1
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Default New franchise tag (doesn't relate to Mario)

While we have a moment, let's clarify an important part of last week's discussion about Chicago Bears tailback Matt Forte and the possible application of a future franchise tag.

As we noted, Forte would earn about $7.7 million if the Bears make him their franchise player in 2012. But along with many others, I wasn't fully informed about how the NFL has arrived at that figure.

As ESPN analyst Andrew Brandt explained for the National Football Post, the league's new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) changed the fundamentals of the franchise tag. It's no longer the average of the five highest-paid players at the position. Instead, it's the average of the highest-paid player at the position in each of the last five years.

Because it reaches back to dated salary figures, the new formula has actually pulled down franchise tag numbers significantly and made it even less attractive for players. For example, the estimated $7.7 million franchise number for running backs in 2012 is about 19 percent less than the 2011 number.

As Brandt notes, this change could also impact the Green Bay Packers' upcoming negotiations with tight end Jermichael Finley. The 2012 franchise tag number for tight ends is estimated between $5.4 million and $5.6 million, about 27 percent less than the 2011 number of $7.3 million. Finley at $7.3 million sounded doable, but $5.6 million sounds like a relative slam dunk.

Generally speaking, the franchise tag is a bigger advantage for NFL teams than ever. Elite players can be locked up for substantially less than before, and the lower numbers will give teams a new tool to prevent departures from good players who wouldn't otherwise have been considered candidates for a high guaranteed salary.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation

In regards to being the average of last five years, is that the number that the 16m for a franchise is based off of?
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Old 11-08-2011   #2
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by Section516 View Post
In regards to being the average of last five years, is that the number that the 16m for a franchise is based off of?
Unless they eliminated the or 120% rule this is immaterial to Mario.
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Old 11-08-2011   #3
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Unless they eliminated the or 120% rule this is immaterial to Mario.
I don't see how the Texans can franchise Mario realistically. If they have the cap room to pay him all that money next year they'd be mad not to partially front-load his contract and make it more cap friendly in subsequent seasons wouldn't they?
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Old 11-08-2011   #4
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
I don't see how the Texans can franchise Mario realistically. If they have the cap room to pay him all that money next year they'd be mad not to partially front-load his contract and make it more cap friendly in subsequent seasons wouldn't they?
Yeah, but Im sure we are going to want to sign Arian to a nice little contract not to mention Andre's contract kicks in next season as well if I remember correctly.

Note - Dre' will be the highest paid WR in the league next year.
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Old 11-08-2011   #5
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

Link to the article referenced by the OP:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/pos...franchise-tags

The only thing that matters is if the 120% rule has been removed, but the article doesn't address that. If it no longer applies, franchising Mario is the way to go. If it does, then I don't think it's smart to franchise Mario.
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Old 11-08-2011   #6
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Unless they eliminated the or 120% rule this is immaterial to Mario.
The 120% rule still appears to apply

See pp 44-46 from the 2011 CBA (the link below is for a PDF of the entire 2011 NFL CBA if ever anyone wants it for future reference)

ARTICLE 10
FRANCHISE AND TRANSITION PLAYERS


Interestingly, as you will see, if the franchise tag is applied more than one time, there are additional formula adjustments.
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Old 11-08-2011   #7
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
The 120% rule still appears to apply

See pp 44-46 from the 2011 CBA (the link below is for a PDF of the entire 2011 NFL CBA if ever anyone wants it for future reference)

ARTICLE 10
FRANCHISE AND TRANSITION PLAYERS


Interestingly, as you will see, if the franchise tag is applied more than one time, there are additional formula adjustments.
Thanks CND, that confirms it. Mario will be a 17.76 million dollar franchise player if tagged. That's expensive.
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Old 11-08-2011   #8
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Thanks CND, that confirms it. Mario will be a 17.76 million dollar franchise player if tagged. That's expensive.
How do you get 17.76 M? Just curious, because (not that he is always right), John McClain thinks around 22 million
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Old 11-08-2011   #9
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
How do you get 17.76 M? Just curious, because (not that he is always right), John McClain thinks around 22 million
Either way, it would blow up the cap. Big quandry coming off his injury........sign for longer term and take a very huge chance vs. franchise for one year and take a huge chance.
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Old 11-08-2011   #10
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
How do you get 17.76 M? Just curious, because (not that he is always right), John McClain thinks around 22 million
Sorry, I thought it was 14.8 million, but looking again it's 13.8. 13.8 million X 1.2 = 16.56 for F tag on him.
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Old 11-08-2011   #11
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Either way, it would blow up the cap. Big quandry coming off his injury........sign for longer term and take a very huge chance vs. franchise for one year and take a huge chance.
I think we can all agree that a determination cannot be made at this point of the season... And I think we can safely say, at the end of the season, we still won't be able to make a determination.
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Old 11-08-2011   #12
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

I like Mario, but meh!! Offer him realistic money. If he likes it sign him, if not let him walk. Just don't break the bank for the guy. There's other guys that need to get paid too (I'm looking at you Arian Foster).
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Old 11-08-2011   #13
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

By the way, while we're on the subject of tag money. Does anyone know if the salary cap will increase next year and by how much? I don't recall seeing any numbers yet.
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Old 11-08-2011   #14
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Sorry, I thought it was 14.8 million, but looking again it's 13.8. 13.8 million X 1.2 = 16.56 for F tag on him.
Where are you getting the numbers from!?

And i think unless we get him for 10-12 a year we should let him walk, no one is going to trade for him with a high price tag and coming an injury....
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Old 11-08-2011   #15
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
By the way, while we're on the subject of tag money. Does anyone know if the salary cap will increase next year and by how much? I don't recall seeing any numbers yet.
The 2011 and 2012 season will carry the same $120 million cap. These are considered "soft" cap years because of adjusting for earned and unearned bonus calculations and :

Quote:
As stated, the latest (and 6th) CBA was passed by the NFLPA and owners in August, 2011. Listed below are the changes that were made:

For 2011, time-based roster bonuses and other incentives (e.g. “Player must be on the roster on April 15th to receive bonus”), the contractual date is amended to July 29.

If a player is released prior to July 29, the team must pay all of his workout bonus if it is $50,000 or less, $50,000 if it it between $50,000 and $100,000, and 50% of the bonus if it is over $100,000 (up to $100,000). If the player is released AFTER 4:00 PM on July 29, then he is due the full amount of his workout bonus.

For 2011, each team may designate up to 3 of their highest paid players (who must have at least 5 accrued seasons and make at least $1 M more than the league minimum salary for that year), toward whom the team will will receive $1 M cap credit. Repayment of this credit will be applied toward the 2014-2017 league years.

For 2012, each team may designate up to 3 of their highest paid players (who must have at least 5 accrued seasons and make at least $500,000 more than the league minimum salary for that year), toward whom the team will will receive $500,000 cap credit. Repayment of this credit will be applied toward the 2014-2017 league years.

Proration for signing bonuses for contracts signed during the 2011 league year (after July 25) will begin cap acceleration in 2012.

Note that, as opposed to common thinking, the spending "floor" to the cap does not actually apply to 2011 and 2012.

Quote:
Under the new CBA, The cap for 2011 is $120.375M per team. Each team must average $119.2 M. That is a league-wide average not an individual team minimum. League-wide, teams must spend 99% of the cap in 2011 and 2012. In 2013 and beyond, they must spend 95% of the cap. In the event that player costs are less than this overall league minimum, then, on or before April 15 of the next League Year, the NFL shall pay an amount equal to such deficiency directly to the players.

In terms of minimum salary for each team, the salary floor is 89% of the cap. However, that does not start until 2013. Hence, there is in essence no salary floor in 2011 or 2012. (Note this point, as there is plenty of misinformation about this running rampant in the press!)

link

2013 will return to a "hard" cap.
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Old 11-08-2011   #16
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

Aren't we already on the brink of cap hell? I'm all for being able to sign multiple players rather than just one. Foster is more than earning his payday and I believe we have a couple of other guys coming up for new contracts.
I say we take a Leach approach to this and make MW a decent offer but don't break the bank. The Joseph and Manning signings should be proof enough for that mindset.
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Old 11-08-2011   #17
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Aren't we already on the brink of cap hell?
IMO, cap hell is when you've got a lot of dead money on your books for players who are either not here, or aren't producing.

Say we sign Mario to a big contract, lots of guaranteed money & pro-rate that bonus over 6 years. Let's say he gets hurt this year, misses most of the year, so we cut him next year.

Next year, 5/6ths of his bonus will be applied to our cap, we wouldn't have a choice. That's a lot of money for a player no longer on your roster.
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Old 11-08-2011   #18
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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IMO, cap hell is when you've got a lot of dead money on your books for players who are either not here, or aren't producing.

Say we sign Mario to a big contract, lots of guaranteed money & pro-rate that bonus over 6 years. Let's say he gets hurt this year, misses most of the year, so we cut him next year.

Next year, 5/6ths of his bonus will be applied to our cap, we wouldn't have a choice. That's a lot of money for a player no longer on your roster.
IMO, cap hell is when you barely have enough money to pay your draft picks and have little to no money to cover UFA's and FA's. That's a recipe for being forced to play rookies and hope they play above expectations. I think we've all seen how well that works out.
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Old 11-08-2011   #19
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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IMO, cap hell is when you barely have enough money to pay your draft picks and have little to no money to cover UFA's and FA's. That's a recipe for being forced to play rookies and hope they play above expectations. I think we've all seen how well that works out.
Regardless what happens in FA next off-season, I doubt we'll start a rookie anywhere on this team.

With Brandon Harris not being activated...... our 5th, 6th, & 7th round picks probably won't make the team.
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Old 11-08-2011   #20
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Default Re: New franchise tag (relates to Mario)

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Originally Posted by Section516 View Post
While we have a moment, let's clarify an important part of last week's discussion about Chicago Bears tailback Matt Forte and the possible application of a future franchise tag.

As we noted, Forte would earn about $7.7 million if the Bears make him their franchise player in 2012. But along with many others, I wasn't fully informed about how the NFL has arrived at that figure.

As ESPN analyst Andrew Brandt explained for the National Football Post, the league's new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) changed the fundamentals of the franchise tag. It's no longer the average of the five highest-paid players at the position. Instead, it's the average of the highest-paid player at the position in each of the last five years.

Because it reaches back to dated salary figures, the new formula has actually pulled down franchise tag numbers significantly and made it even less attractive for players. For example, the estimated $7.7 million franchise number for running backs in 2012 is about 19 percent less than the 2011 number.

As Brandt notes, this change could also impact the Green Bay Packers' upcoming negotiations with tight end Jermichael Finley. The 2012 franchise tag number for tight ends is estimated between $5.4 million and $5.6 million, about 27 percent less than the 2011 number of $7.3 million. Finley at $7.3 million sounded doable, but $5.6 million sounds like a relative slam dunk.

Generally speaking, the franchise tag is a bigger advantage for NFL teams than ever. Elite players can be locked up for substantially less than before, and the lower numbers will give teams a new tool to prevent departures from good players who wouldn't otherwise have been considered candidates for a high guaranteed salary.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation

In regards to being the average of last five years, is that the number that the 16m for a franchise is based off of?
516 what does he base his comments on? I see no link to the new CBA nor can I find one anywhere. As those that post on this MB are requested to provide links to support our comments, Brandt should do same. Of all the links I could find none mentioned any changes to tags. Not saying he is wrong but nothing proves he is correct.

ps, if any one can post a link to new CBA, I would be grateful.
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