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Old 11-07-2011   #61
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

Why would you franchise Mario? 16 million for a player who is coming off a season ending injury? It is more likely that we will negotiate a contract with Mario (i'm thinking along the lines of 10-12 million a year) and then slap the franchise tag on Foster. Mario knows no team will pay him 16 million and I really do think he was enjoying this season under Wade. Being a 3-4 rushing OLB gives him more freedom than a 4-3 DE.
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Old 11-07-2011   #62
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

It will be an interesting off-season, that's for sure!
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Old 11-07-2011   #63
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Why would you franchise Mario? 16 million for a player who is coming off a season ending injury? It is more likely that we will negotiate a contract with Mario (i'm thinking along the lines of 10-12 million a year) and then slap the franchise tag on Foster. Mario knows no team will pay him 16 million and I really do think he was enjoying this season under Wade. Being a 3-4 rushing OLB gives him more freedom than a 4-3 DE.
Im not so sure that no other team would overpay him... what I would do is try to give Mario a contract with a nice base salary and heavy bonuses (playing x amount of games - a bonus for each sack...). You don`t just let Mario leave - he brings too much to the table...

But Brooks Reed might be the real deal. Clay had 10 sacks his rookie season - Reeds already has 4 in only 4 starts. Im not saying he is gonna be at the same level, but he sure seems to be a force to be reckoned with. And with Barwin and hopefully Mario, that is one fine pass rush at OLB.

We sure got great production out of our 1st and 2nd round rookies this year. Now it`d be nice if Harris could show up as well...
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Old 11-07-2011   #64
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by VTexan View Post
and then slap the franchise tag on Foster.
I keep seeing this here and hearing it on the radio. Foster will not be an unrestricted free agent this coming off-season. The franchise tag isn't going to be used on him. He doesn't have enough accrued NFL seasons to get beyond the other options.
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Old 11-07-2011   #65
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

I'm not sure that any team is going to shell out big bucks to sign Mario. He's had a pretty extensive injury history even though he's managed to play through most of them. I would love to see us work out a cap friendly deal that keeps him a Texan for the next 5-7 years. Brooks Reed has been an unexpected surprise, but just because he's played pretty well doesn't mean we should just let Mario walk. The ability to rotate Mario, Reed, and Barwin is something I would love to see next year. A year of off-season work and these guys will be absolute beasts a year from now in the defense.
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Old 11-07-2011   #66
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I keep seeing this here and hearing it on the radio. Foster will not be an unrestricted free agent this coming off-season. The franchise tag isn't going to be used on him. He doesn't have enough accrued NFL seasons to get beyond the other options.
I believe we can slap a restricted tender on him, but there is no way Foster shows up next year without a new contract. I applaud him for showing up and playing under the crappy contract he has now, but he's almost even said as much that it won't happen again next year.
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Old 11-07-2011   #67
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

Why is it only one or the other? The Giants win games because of their pass rush with a rotation of DEs (they play a 4-3) and the Patriots won with their pass rush with a rotation of LBs. Since when is having another pass rushing threat a bad thing? Rotate them. Let Phillips get creative w/a blitz using all three.

Now, none of us know if Reed or Barwin are the real deal. They have looked good so far, but it's halfway through their first season (significant season for Barwin at least). Reed still might hit the rookie wall. I'm a big supporter of his going back to his days at Arizona when I would fly out there twice a semester to visit my gf. But honestly, all three of our OLB options have question marks. I don't think Mario is going to get 16 million, but he's earned a good contract for his production over his career and the production he was having this year. The honest truth is that having all three guys is our best option.
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Old 11-07-2011   #68
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
Why is it only one or the other? The Giants win games because of their pass rush with a rotation of DEs (they play a 4-3) and the Patriots won with their pass rush with a rotation of LBs. Since when is having another pass rushing threat a bad thing? Rotate them. Let Phillips get creative w/a blitz using all three.

Now, none of us know if Reed or Barwin are the real deal. They have looked good so far, but it's halfway through their first season (significant season for Barwin at least). Reed still might hit the rookie wall. I'm a big supporter of his going back to his days at Arizona when I would fly out there twice a semester to visit my gf. But honestly, all three of our OLB options have question marks. I don't think Mario is going to get 16 million, but he's earned a good contract for his production over his career and the production he was having this year. The honest truth is that having all three guys is our best option.
What if we signed Lamar Woodley instead of Mario? Would you be happy with that? If we are going to spend big money at OLB, I'd rather spend it on a true OLB. Frankly, I'd be more gungho to keep Mario if we were considering moving him into the DLline rotation. I just don't think he makes sense at OLB at the price he'll command. Though, I do acknowledge, he was playing well early this season.
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Old 11-07-2011   #69
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

Well, besides the obvious, it's the Browns...etc... it sure is nice to see these 2 2nd round guys Barwin and Reed showing up BIG in games. 3 sacks between them, a multitude of hits (boy Reed brings the WOOD) and countless other pressures. How many times did they slap McCoy on the back? Like every other play?

Mario's role is obvious now. If these 2 can keep it up, they've got a chance to mold something special into form. Mario's ability at OLB is nice but they have to see him at DE in the 3-4 base occasionally now. With Barwin and Reed outside, Smith and Mario inside give the QB fits AND it opens up the deception/Mario playing DE it doesn't matter that he's coming every down.
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Old 11-07-2011   #70
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I asked you this before - which of his seasons was that one good season? The ten sack season where he was runner up for DROY, or the 13.5 sack season where he was All Pro and an integral part of a Super Bowl winning defense?
He has no noe opposite of him. Teams are truely focusing on stopping him from getting to the QB. All the "Mario is double teamed all the time" excuse makers should watch a green bay game and focus on CM3 to see what game planning against a particular player is really all about.
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Old 11-07-2011   #71
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I keep seeing this here and hearing it on the radio. Foster will not be an unrestricted free agent this coming off-season. The franchise tag isn't going to be used on him. He doesn't have enough accrued NFL seasons to get beyond the other options.
I knew it was going to be something like this but don't really understand what our options are with him? Tender?
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Old 11-07-2011   #72
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I think we will be able to sign foster and Mario. I can't remember the last time a team let someone of mario's caliber walk because they couldn't afford him. That's not going to happen. Someone will restructure, cap moves will be made, he will be signed IMO.

As far as filling other holes. . .???

What gaping holes are you looking to fill in free agency that we can't attempt to fill in the draft?

Brooks reed, Mario, and barwin in a healthy rotation makes me excited.
I think the Panthers letting Julius Peppers become a UFA probably meets this criteria, but I agree, there's several things that could happen with Mario, and him becoming unrestricted is likely the last thing the Texans want to see.

Here is the list of things that could happen with Mario listed by my best guess at what the Texans order of preference would be.

1. Agree to a long term deal prior to the start of the 2012 off-season.
2. Franchise him, and negotiate a long-term deal prior to the start of the 2012 season.
3. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and match another teams contract offer (unlikely).
4. Franchise him and let him play the 2012 season under that guaranteed one year deal.
5. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and choose not to match another teams contract offer and get two first round draft picks (also unlikely).
6. Franchise him and trade him ala Jared Allen or Matt Cassel.
7. Let him become an unrestricted free agent.

I also believe the estimates of a $16 Million franchise tag amount may be a bit low. I know for a fact that the prior years salary that must be increased by 20% includes more than just the base salary (Pro-rata portion of any signing bonus as an example). I know Jim Trotter from SI has indicated it would be in excess of $20 Million. I don't know exactly how much it will be, and I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to say I believe it's possible it could be more than most on this board have indicated.

In spite of my questions about what the amount of the franchise tag will be, I will say that I believe if necessary (If item 1 from the above list fails to happen), the Texans will put the franchise tag on him regardless of the amount. The one thing we know for a fact is that whatever Mario's 2011 cap amount is, franchising him will increase that number by less than $4 Million for 2012. While $4 Million is admittedly a big number, I would ask you, if the Texans are willing to let him count anywhere from $15 to $18 Million against the 2011 cap, are they going to let him walk and get nothing in return beyond a possible late third round compensatory pick, when for less than that $4 Million amount, they can provide themselves several options that provide far more value than one late third round pick. Throw in the fact that there will be some sort of increase to the total cap next season, and I absolutely don't believe they will.
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Old 11-07-2011   #73
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I think the Panthers letting Julius Peppers become a UFA probably meets this criteria, but I agree, there's several things that could happen with Mario, and him becoming unrestricted is likely the last thing the Texans want to see.

Here is the list of things that could happen with Mario listed by my best guess at what the Texans order of preference would be.

1. Agree to a long term deal prior to the start of the 2012 off-season.
2. Franchise him, and negotiate a long-term deal prior to the start of the 2012 season.
3. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and match another teams contract offer (unlikely).
4. Franchise him and let him play the 2012 season under that guaranteed one year deal.
5. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and choose not to match another teams contract offer and get two first round draft picks (also unlikely).
6. Franchise him and trade him ala Jared Allen or Matt Cassel.
7. Let him become an unrestricted free agent.

I also believe the estimates of a $16 Million franchise tag amount may be a bit low. I know for a fact that the prior years salary that must be increased by 20% includes more than just the base salary (Pro-rata portion of any signing bonus as an example). I know Jim Trotter from SI has indicated it would be in excess of $20 Million. I don't know exactly how much it will be, and I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to say I believe it's possible it could be more than most on this board have indicated.

In spite of my questions about what the amount of the franchise tag will be, I will say that I believe if necessary (If item 1 from the above list fails to happen), the Texans will put the franchise tag on him regardless of the amount. The one thing we know for a fact is that whatever Mario's 2011 cap amount is, franchising him will increase that number by less than $4 Million for 2012. While $4 Million is admittedly a big number, I would ask you, if the Texans are willing to let him count anywhere from $15 to $18 Million against the 2011 cap, are they going to let him walk and get nothing in return beyond a possible late third round compensatory pick, when for less than that $4 Million amount, they can provide themselves several options that provide far more value than that. Throw in the fact that there will be some sort of increase to the total cap next season, and I absolutely don't believe they will.

There is no way the Texans can franchise him next season. It would put them over the cap and prevent them from signing Foster, extending Schaub, etc... I'm almost positive they will have to sign him to a long term deal or let him walk. Remember, though, that the Texans could get some compensation back for Mario if he walks, depending on how the rest of free agency goes (compensatory selections). Likely though, the Texans wouldn't get draft picks but would have some spending money for free agency.

Perhaps they could franchise him then trade him. However, they better have a deal in place, otherwise they could end up in a very sticky situation.
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Old 11-07-2011   #74
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
Obviously, since you don't value Mario very much, this make alot of sense to you. To us that highly value him, we don't think getting rid of him will make us better.

You can make the same argument about Foster since Tate is playing so well. I'm surprised people aren't suggesting we trade or do not re-sign Foster.
Huge difference in that signing Foster will not take up so much of your cap space. I like Mario but if we can save apprx $10-14 million in cap space plus get high picks why not? I think if we discuss any player being on team we need to consider the whole enchalada.
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Old 11-07-2011   #75
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by VTexan View Post
Why would you franchise Mario? 16 million for a player who is coming off a season ending injury? It is more likely that we will negotiate a contract with Mario (i'm thinking along the lines of 10-12 million a year) and then slap the franchise tag on Foster. Mario knows no team will pay him 16 million and I really do think he was enjoying this season under Wade. Being a 3-4 rushing OLB gives him more freedom than a 4-3 DE.
You do not have to franchise Foster. He is an exclusive rights player and no other team can negotiate with him without Texans permission. With Tate doing well (similar to Reed), Foster should sign a reasonable deal as he has little choice. Foster's longevity should increase with Tate on the team.
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Old 11-07-2011   #76
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by NitroGSXR View Post
I knew it was going to be something like this but don't really understand what our options are with him? Tender?
I believe badboy is correct and Foster is ERFA next year because his first year was not accrued. Worst case scenario he could be retained with an RFA high tender of around $1.5 mil.

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
There is no way the Texans can franchise him next season. It would put them over the cap and prevent them from signing Foster, extending Schaub, etc...
You keep injecting Foster like it is a must do this coming off-season or we lose him and it just isn't true. Also Matt Schaub is signed for 2012.
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Old 11-07-2011   #77
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
You do not have to franchise Foster. He is an exclusive rights player and no other team can negotiate with him without Texans permission. With Tate doing well (similar to Reed), Foster should sign a reasonable deal as he has little choice. Foster's longevity should increase with Tate on the team.
I think Tate is a better runner than Foster, though Arian might be a better
pass-receiver. So I'd rather have Tate over the long-term because he
not only runs harder than Foster, but he's also a more dangerous long-threat. Now if we could get a high to mid second-rounder for Arian I'd move him, though even young vet backs like Arian aren't very marketable generally speaking.
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Old 11-07-2011   #78
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I think the Panthers letting Julius Peppers become a UFA probably meets this criteria, but I agree, there's several things that could happen with Mario, and him becoming unrestricted is likely the last thing the Texans want to see.

Here is the list of things that could happen with Mario listed by my best guess at what the Texans order of preference would be.

1. Agree to a long term deal prior to the start of the 2012 off-season.
2. Franchise him, and negotiate a long-term deal prior to the start of the 2012 season.
3. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and match another teams contract offer (unlikely).
4. Franchise him and let him play the 2012 season under that guaranteed one year deal.
5. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and choose not to match another teams contract offer and get two first round draft picks (also unlikely).
6. Franchise him and trade him ala Jared Allen or Matt Cassel.
7. Let him become an unrestricted free agent.

I also believe the estimates of a $16 Million franchise tag amount may be a bit low. I know for a fact that the prior years salary that must be increased by 20% includes more than just the base salary (Pro-rata portion of any signing bonus as an example). I know Jim Trotter from SI has indicated it would be in excess of $20 Million. I don't know exactly how much it will be, and I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to say I believe it's possible it could be more than most on this board have indicated.

In spite of my questions about what the amount of the franchise tag will be, I will say that I believe if necessary (If item 1 from the above list fails to happen), the Texans will put the franchise tag on him regardless of the amount. The one thing we know for a fact is that whatever Mario's 2011 cap amount is, franchising him will increase that number by less than $4 Million for 2012. While $4 Million is admittedly a big number, I would ask you, if the Texans are willing to let him count anywhere from $15 to $18 Million against the 2011 cap, are they going to let him walk and get nothing in return beyond a possible late third round compensatory pick, when for less than that $4 Million amount, they can provide themselves several options that provide far more value than one late third round pick. Throw in the fact that there will be some sort of increase to the total cap next season, and I absolutely don't believe they will.
FYI, Mario's current salary is $13.8m. That + 20% ($2.76m) = $16.56million. If that is the agreement for next season there is no bonus & that will be the cap hit. He does have one year of prorated money in this season and that's why the cap was a bit higher than just his base.
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Old 11-07-2011   #79
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

I still think this defense needs a speed rusher opposite either Reed/Williams/Barwin. Reed and Williams (pre-injury) have both out played Barwin so far this season, but none of them have the explosiveness that defines the elite 34 pass rushers.
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Old 11-07-2011   #80
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Default Re: Brooks Reed

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroGSXR View Post
I knew it was going to be something like this but don't really understand what our options are with him? Tender?

He's not going anywhere. He can not talk to other teams, he can not test the market.

The only thing he can do is hold out of camp like CJ2ypc did & force the Texans to give him more money.
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