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Old 10-31-2011   #1
gtexan02
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Default Going deep

Here are our deep pass plays yesterday:

Completions
-2nd and 7 at JAC 44 M.Schaub pass deep middle to K.Walter to JAX 19 for 25 yards (D.Lowery).

-1st and 10 at HOU 33 M.Schaub pass deep left to J.Jones to JAX 39 for 28 yards (D.Cox).

-1st and 10 at HOU 26 (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass deep middle to K.Walter to HST 43 for 17 yards (D.Cox).

Incompletions

-3rd and 7 at JAC 36 (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass incomplete deep right to K.Walter [D.Smith].

-1st and 10 at HOU 39 M.Schaub pass incomplete deep middle to K.Walter.

-3rd and 10 at HOU 39 (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass incomplete deep left to J.Jones.

-1st and 10 at HOU 31 M.Schaub pass incomplete deep middle to J.Jones.

-1st and 10 at JAC 44 M.Schaub pass incomplete deep middle to K.Walter.


So together, when going deep, we were 3/8 for 70 yards with no TDs and no INTs



Was it just me or did it seem like in the 2nd and 3rd quarter we went for the deep ball a lot? Without really being effective? Either Schaub overthrew his receiver or threw into decent coverage. Or to JJones

Deep passes killed a couple of offensive series for us. Schaub also was setting up to go deep on the sack fumble
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Old 10-31-2011   #2
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Default Re: Going deep

i had to delete the game already, but it did seem we went deep relatively often, especially with the right to left post route. we probably saw something in the jags' defense because our receivers were open, schaub just kept overthrowing them.

a lot of folks knock schaub for not leading his receivers enough, but i'd much rather him throw it a little short and allow the guys to adjust than to put it completely out of reach.
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Old 10-31-2011   #3
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Default Re: Going deep

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i had to delete the game already, but it did seem we went deep relatively often, especially with the right to left post route. we probably saw something in the jags' defense because our receivers were open, schaub just kept overthrowing them.

a lot of folks knock schaub for not leading his receivers enough, but i'd much rather him throw it a little short and allow the guys to adjust than to put it completely out of reach.
no..that's something you do with a premier talent.....like he does & has done with AJ. You give those types of guys chances to make a play. Someone like Jacoby Jones? Like Kevin Walter? not so much. part of the issue is those guys aren't seperating at the top of their routes enough (Jones), are hella slower than AJ (walter) & neither is getting off the LOS cleanly.

It makes sense when you think about it. when was the last time you saw Schaub overthrow a WR that many times in a game? Never. I'd rather him overthrow with those guys rather than attempt to do something that neither is equipped to do or just aren't very good at doing b/c when you throw the ball that way, you not only give your guy a chance to make the play, you also give the db's a chance as well.......& doing that with AJ, the percentages are in our favor. With anyone else? Nope.
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Old 10-31-2011   #4
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Default Re: Going deep

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Was it just me or did it seem like in the 2nd and 3rd quarter we went for the deep ball a lot? Without really being effective? Either Schaub overthrew his receiver or threw into decent coverage. Or to JJones

Deep passes killed a couple of offensive series for us. Schaub also was setting up to go deep on the sack fumble
The lack of effectiveness on the deep passes was probably a combination of not having AJ and the Jags bringing a lot of pressure. Beyond that, I think the logic behind the deep passes was to try to force the safeties to play deeper. We were unable to break off any long runs all day so Kubiak was probably trying to create more space for the running backs. Going deep should also open up the shorter passing routes to the TEs and slot WRs.
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Old 10-31-2011   #5
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Default Re: Going deep

On the deep middle to Jacoby Jones that fell incomplete, I was thinking Jacoby needs to lay out for that.
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Old 10-31-2011   #6
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Default Re: Going deep

Honestly felt like Schaub was just off his game yesterday, one of his poorer performances this year, IMO. Missed several throws deep when our guy had a step or two. Luckily our D is stepping up lately, and the Jags couldn't make us pay for missing those opportunities. He's going to have to play better than this against elite competition.
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Old 10-31-2011   #7
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Default Re: Going deep

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Originally Posted by dsorc View Post
The lack of effectiveness on the deep passes was probably a combination of not having AJ and the Jags bringing a lot of pressure. Beyond that, I think the logic behind the deep passes was to try to force the safeties to play deeper. We were unable to break off any long runs all day so Kubiak was probably trying to create more space for the running backs. Going deep should also open up the shorter passing routes to the TEs and slot WRs.
I agree with this. Plus there seems to be a little timing issue that we should be able to correct. Going deep that often without AJ is not something we do often... which I think is a problem in & of itself.

He layed one right into Jacoby's hands... that was perfect on Matt's part. Those others definitely need some work.

I also agree that it helped open the run game. We didn't connect on most of them, but it showed we were going to take our shots, so they had to defend the deep ball. The average was low, but I think that's because the Jags are that good on defense.

Eventually, we're going to have to connect on those deep balls, Aj is going to help with that.
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Old 10-31-2011   #8
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Default Re: Going deep

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
a lot of folks knock schaub for not leading his receivers enough, but i'd much rather him throw it a little short and allow the guys to adjust than to put it completely out of reach.
I'd rather he just throw a good ball 7 times out of 10.

Even the big OD catch was a ridiculously low ball...OD probably turns up field a lot faster if Schaub hits him higher...
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Old 10-31-2011   #9
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Default Re: Going deep

I like throwing it deep because it seemed to loosen up the box. Even if it isnt sucessful, you have to be weary cause the threat is there.
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Old 10-31-2011   #10
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Default Re: Going deep

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I'd rather he just throw a good ball 7 times out of 10.

Even the big OD catch was a ridiculously low ball...OD probably turns up field a lot faster if Schaub hits him higher...
exactly. I am glad AJ could sit this one out but Matt was off this game.
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Old 10-31-2011   #11
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Default Re: Going deep

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
no..that's something you do with a premier talent.....like he does & has done with AJ. You give those types of guys chances to make a play. Someone like Jacoby Jones? Like Kevin Walter? not so much. part of the issue is those guys aren't seperating at the top of their routes enough (Jones), are hella slower than AJ (walter) & neither is getting off the LOS cleanly.

It makes sense when you think about it. when was the last time you saw Schaub overthrow a WR that many times in a game? Never. I'd rather him overthrow with those guys rather than attempt to do something that neither is equipped to do or just aren't very good at doing b/c when you throw the ball that way, you not only give your guy a chance to make the play, you also give the db's a chance as well.......& doing that with AJ, the percentages are in our favor. With anyone else? Nope.
Good point.
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Old 10-31-2011   #12
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Default Re: Going deep

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
I like throwing it deep because it seemed to loosen up the box. Even if it isnt sucessful, you have to be weary cause the threat is there.
I would like to see a greater variation of play calls myself...

There are other ways to get guys out of the box besides chunking it deep...

Just spreading the field makes defenders have to widen out.

I think Arian could do well running in a single back, four wide set...Even if you use a TE as the fourth WR, split him out wide and give Arian room to operate...

If the defense doesn't honor your receivers then you gash their ass...
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Old 10-31-2011   #13
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Default Re: Going deep

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
no..that's something you do with a premier talent.....like he does & has done with AJ. You give those types of guys chances to make a play. Someone like Jacoby Jones? Like Kevin Walter? not so much. part of the issue is those guys aren't seperating at the top of their routes enough (Jones), are hella slower than AJ (walter) & neither is getting off the LOS cleanly.

It makes sense when you think about it. when was the last time you saw Schaub overthrow a WR that many times in a game? Never. I'd rather him overthrow with those guys rather than attempt to do something that neither is equipped to do or just aren't very good at doing b/c when you throw the ball that way, you not only give your guy a chance to make the play, you also give the db's a chance as well.......& doing that with AJ, the percentages are in our favor. With anyone else? Nope.
Isn't it the QB's responsibility to know his receivers and their limitations.......and adjust to them? Schaub was just plain inaccurate. I also noticed that on those long throws, he threw the ball like a baseball......a wind up........and the front leg way up in the air. That front foot was not set before the throw. You are going to trade gaining distance for accuracy. Wonder if anyone can go back and look for an example of him doing that in this game.

Last edited by CloakNNNdagger; 10-31-2011 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 10-31-2011   #14
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Default Re: Going deep

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part of the issue is those guys aren't seperating at the top of their routes enough (Jones), are hella slower than AJ (walter) & neither is getting off the LOS cleanly
Jacoby had good separation on the sideline when Matt slightly underthrew the ball.


There really is not a problem as much as the WR and QB need to find a happy medium...

Matt isn't the elite QB that is going to consistently pinpoint passes and put the ball in the best possible place, and the receivers aren't Andre Johnson or Larry Fitz...they aren't going to go up in traffic and claim a ball no matter what the coverage is like...

I think both the QB's and the receivers (outside of Dreesen, OD, Dre) for the Texans need to play a little better overall.
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Old 10-31-2011   #15
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Default Re: Going deep

Alot of times Scahub throw it 2 deep and people say he has no arm LOL and the recivers just couldnt run fast enough to catch it

Either way the mathis Guy i think the jags CB with the Dreads is pretty good Hes really Fast and just overall good he was on our recivers like bread n butter all day


This only works when AJ in on the field LOL

Last edited by Norg; 10-31-2011 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 10-31-2011   #16
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Default Re: Going deep

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Alot of times Scahub throw it 2 deep and people say he has no arm LOL and the recivers just couldnt run fast enough to catch it
To me...When I think about arm strength I am not thinking about how far someone can throw...

I am thinking about how fast and how tight the ball is to the target...

A QB with a strong arm can hit small windows and consistently fit balls into tight places...Out routes, short yardage throws, Red Zone throws...

If you have a strong arm you can throw balls on more of a line and you don't have to put as much air under it....That means the balls are getting to the targets faster (the straighter the line the shorter the distance) and it gives defenders less of a chance to react/recover.

If you can hit a guy with minimal arch in the pass it helps out a lot.
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Old 10-31-2011   #17
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Default Re: Going deep

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Alot of times Scahub throw it 2 deep and people say he has no arm LOL and the recivers just couldnt run fast enough to catch it

Either way the Cox Guy i think the jags CB with the Dreads is pretty good Hes really Fast and just overall good he was on our recivers like bread n butter all day


This only works when AJ in on the field LOL
The one with the Dreads was Mathis. Cox was the one getting consistently beat by Jacoby Jones.

This is the first game I saw Schaub over throw any receiver that many times on the deep ball. Now I kinda believe him when he says he underthrows them on purpose.

I still think that is stupid & he should work on that deep ball.

Andre would have a hundred TDs a year if he did.
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Old 10-31-2011   #18
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Default Re: Going deep

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Isn't it the QB's responsibility to know his receivers and their limitations.......and adjust to them? Schaub was just plain inaccurate. I also noticed that on those long throws, he threw the ball like a baseball......a wind up........and the front leg way up in the air. That front foot was not set before the throw. You are going to gain distance for accuracy. Wonder if anyone can go back and look for an example of him doing that in this game.
Accuracy isn't all on the qb, no more than it's all on the WR. The qb has to trust that you're going to be right where you're supposed to be. I think schaub knows these guys well enough in that 10-20 yd. range running certain routes b/c that's where he normally throws them the ball & that's the routes that they normally run. But if you take all these guys out of their comfort zone (as everyone is with the absence of AJ), you're going to have games like this b/c its whole different set circumstances - chemistry wise.


So yes, schaub could've been more accurate but for him to overthrow them as consistently as he did tells me that the WR's weren't quite where they should've been either....for whatever reason. You also have to figure that jacksonville wouldn't have been playing press man like they were if their was any doubt about whether our WR's could beat them deep or not & with press man comes tons of re-routing, grabbing & holding to throw the timing of a route off.
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Old 10-31-2011   #19
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Default Re: Going deep

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Jacoby had good separation on the sideline when Matt slightly underthrew the ball.


There really is not a problem as much as the WR and QB need to find a happy medium...

Matt isn't the elite QB that is going to consistently pinpoint passes and put the ball in the best possible place, and the receivers aren't Andre Johnson or Larry Fitz...they aren't going to go up in traffic and claim a ball no matter what the coverage is like...

I think both the QB's and the receivers (outside of Dreesen, OD, Dre) for the Texans need to play a little better overall.
If you're talking about the 1 that JJ dropped, i would disagree. If anything that ball was about as perfectly placed by schaub as you could get...imo of course.
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Old 10-31-2011   #20
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Default Re: Going deep

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If you're talking about the 1 that JJ dropped, i would disagree. If anything that ball was about as perfectly placed by schaub as you could get...imo of course.
I haven't seen it on TV yet, but what I saw at the game & what I saw on the replay, I agree.

I'm Jacoby's biggest fan... but that was as perfect as it could get. Dropped right in the bread basket.

What I did like about that outcome, is that I saw Jacoby working on his hands on the sideline. Right after that, he had someone throwing him the ball so he could catch it with his hands.

After halftime, he had Matt throwing him the ball. Usually that's OD & Andre warming up with the QBs.. it was nice to see Jj get in on some of that.

He knows he screwed up.... & I think he'll work on it.
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