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Old 10-31-2011   #41
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
That was a dumb play by Schaub IMHO.

I don't understand the great play by Sessions stuff either...It was a regular play...He got chopped and got back up....

It's not like he jumped over Arian and simultaneously tackled Schaub or anything amazing like that...

Schaub should not fumble the ball even when defenders get after him around the edges and stuff like in the typical fashion...

He definitely shouldn't be fumbling when he sees a guy get chopped right next to him...

It was a lack of awareness on his part...Sessions didn't do anything that any defender wouldn't have done...Get chopped, pop back up and keep going...

Get rid of the ball faster, keep drifting to the sideline, stand in there for as long as you can and if you happened to get sacked don't fumble...

But you cannot open yourself up like that when the defender is right there by you and you know it. It makes you more vulnerable to injury and turnovers...I'm pretty sure Gary talked to him about that and told him what he did wrong there....I am almost 100% positive he didn't say "Well Matt...That was just a great play by Clint"....
You're making it sound like Schaub has fumblitis (sp?). That was Schaub's first fumble that he lost this year. I looked at Tom Brady who is a premiere QB for comparision purposes... sooooo... Brady has lost 32 fumbles over 9 full seasons (I did not count his rookie nor his injury years). That translates to 3.55 fumbles per season.

Now...

Matt Schaub lost 12 fumbles over 4 full seasons for the Texans (behind a horrid o-line during his earlier days to boot!). That makes for 3 fumbles per year. Midway through this season and he finally loses his first and you are crying awareness? Eh. Me thinks the haterade has been spiked a bit strong.
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Old 10-31-2011   #42
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
LOL, yeah when you over-simplify it like that man, nothing is remarkable.

For schaubs part of it, It was just a situation where he tried to squeeze too much out of it that he probably shouldn't have; it happens to even the best qb's in the league from time to time Someone mentioned Brady's blunder at the end of his game....he had plenty of other times in that game where he should've just thrown it away but he didn't & instead took a sack with a 9 yd. loss. noone plays a perfect game.

As far as sessions part of it, most guys who get chopped down like that, don't spring up that fast &/or don't land in such a way that enables them to do that...
I won't argue with that...

I still believe Matt shouldn't have fumbled there, but I won't argue against what you have said too much...
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Old 10-31-2011   #43
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by NitroGSXR View Post
You're making it sound like Schaub has fumblitis (sp?). That was Schaub's first fumble that he lost this year. I looked at Tom Brady who is a premiere QB for comparision purposes... sooooo... Brady has lost 32 fumbles over 9 full seasons (I did not count his rookie nor his injury years). That translates to 3.55 fumbles per season.

Now...

Matt Schaub lost 12 fumbles over 4 full seasons for the Texans (behind a horrid o-line during his earlier days to boot!). That makes for 3 fumbles per year. Midway through this season and he finally loses his first and you are crying awareness? Eh. Me thinks the haterade has been spiked a bit strong.
What are you talking about?

I never said anything about Matt having fumbling problems.

I said ON THAT PLAY he shouldn't have fumbled. I don't even know much about his fumbling history.

Seriously...some of y'all take criticisms/observations of certain players to heart it seems...

I call it like I see it and I don't have a vindetta out for any player that I watch. I've shown praise and been critical of almost every player on the team.

Stop reading into stuff that I didn't write and creating your own narrative and take what I'm saying at face value. If you do that then we can have a discussion.
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Old 10-31-2011   #44
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post

As far as sessions part of it, most guys who get chopped down like that, don't spring up that fast &/or don't land in such a way that enables them to do that...
I was at the game and I couldn't figure out where the hit came from until I re-watched it afterwards. Once Foster cut Sessions, I was looking for the big play downfield, because it looked like Schaub had time and space to deliver a pass with ease. You're right! He jumped up very quickly to make that play.
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Old 10-31-2011   #45
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
What are you talking about?

I never said anything about Matt having fumbling problems.

I said ON THAT PLAY he shouldn't have fumbled. I don't even know much about his fumbling history.

Seriously...some of y'all take criticisms/observations of certain players to heart it seems...

I call it like I see it and I don't have a vindetta out for any player that I watch. I've shown praise and been critical of almost every player on the team.

Stop reading into stuff that I didn't write and creating your own narrative and take what I'm saying at face value. If you do that then we can have a discussion.
???

My own narrative? Umm... okay. Let me try it a different way for you...

On THAT play? C'mon now. When has Schaub ever "should" have fumbled? In a perfect world, a QB should never fumble. The point of my post was that I'm going to cut him a little slack here given that he doesn't have a history of fumblitis nor had he fumbled in all of 7 and a half games thus far. You not knowing much about his fumbling history shows. It matters.
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Old 10-31-2011   #46
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
He's on track to throw for more than 4000 yards again this season... for the 3rd year in a row and he'll probably throw for more than that because we're entering the "easy" part of the schedule. He's ranked 8th in the league in yards and 7th in the league in Passer Rating. He's 4th in the league for first downs. He's 2nd in the league in pass plays of over 20 yards. He's been picked off (5) less than Tom Brady (8), Matt Ryan (8), Cam Newton (9), Rivers (9), Brees (10), and Freeman (10), and a lot more guys.

He is not, however, as accurate this year as he has been in previous years. But I think that's because he's looking down the field a lot more and taking a lot more risks and being more aggressive.

This is the first fumble he's lost all season.

You can say what you want but he is not having a bad year.

I didn't say he was having a bad year...I said he's had stretches of shitty play in just about every game.

But since you are rattling off stats...

David Carr completed about 70% of his passes and threw for about 3,000 yards with worse all around talent around him on offense...He was in the top half of the league in just about every meaningful QB stat...

That was Kubiak's first year implementing his system...

The system in itself produces yardage and decent looking stats...

When I watch the games I see a QB that could be doing more.
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Old 10-31-2011   #47
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by NitroGSXR View Post
On THAT play? C'mon now. When has Schaub ever "should" have fumbled? In a perfect world, a QB should never fumble.
There are times when you don't really blame the QB for fumbling...

When an O-linemen gets beat and a defender levels him from his blindside...When an O-lineman lets the defender ride him into the QB and he strips the ball as the QB is throwing...

When a QB doesn't see a guy coming and is hit unexpectedly....ok...I can give him a pass...

When a QB sees a guy and knows that a hit is coming...No...
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Old 10-31-2011   #48
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by NitroGSXR View Post
You're making it sound like Schaub has fumblitis (sp?). That was Schaub's first fumble that he lost this year. I looked at Tom Brady who is a premiere QB for comparision purposes... sooooo... Brady has lost 32 fumbles over 9 full seasons (I did not count his rookie nor his injury years). That translates to 3.55 fumbles per season.

Now...

Matt Schaub lost 12 fumbles over 4 full seasons for the Texans (behind a horrid o-line during his earlier days to boot!). That makes for 3 fumbles per year. Midway through this season and he finally loses his first and you are crying awareness? Eh. Me thinks the haterade has been spiked a bit strong.
Care to use games played instead of the number of seasons? Schaub only played 11 games in 07 and 08. 16+16+11+11 = 54 games for the Texans (not including 2011). Brady played 143 in the span you set.

Also, if you're going to cite stats and such, please post a source. According to Pro FB Ref Schaub has 29 fumbles, 21 of which were lost in those games. (ESPN credits him with 20 lost fumbles in that time)

Brady has had 72 fumbles, 56 of which were lost over that time.

Schaub's games: 54 divided by the number of fumbles lost: 21 = 2.57 games per lost fumble

Brady's games: 143 divided by the number of fumbles lost: 56 = 2.55 games per lost fumble

Not much of a difference between the two, but a far cry from saying Schaub is better than Brady in this category.


*Edited to update info.
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Last edited by Dutchrudder; 10-31-2011 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 10-31-2011   #49
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
David Carr completed about 70% of his passes and threw for about 3,000 yards with worse all around talent around him on offense...He was in the top half of the league in just about every meaningful QB stat...
Really you are even going to try to compare the two? Carr had 2767 yds which is a significant distance from 3000 yds which is a huge difference from 4200 yards. But here is an easy one to compare dink and dunk against supposedly noodle arm. In 16 games Carr had 25 passes over 20 yards and 3 over 40 yards. In 8 Schaub has 34 over 20 yards and 7 over 40 yards. It ain't just the system.
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Old 10-31-2011   #50
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Really you are even going to try to compare the two? Carr had 2767 yds which is a significant distance from 3000 yds which is a huge difference from 4200 yards. But here is an easy one to compare dink and dunk against supposedly noodle arm. In 16 games Carr had 25 passes over 20 yards and 3 over 40 yards. In 8 Schaub has 34 over 20 yards and 7 over 40 yards. It ain't just the system.
Additionally, Carr's yards per attempt in 2006 was a typically laughable 6.3.

Schuab's Y/A this season is 8.3. In fact, in terms of career yards per attempt, Schaub is among the elite in NFL history.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...att_career.htm
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Old 10-31-2011   #51
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
as for your post Rey, no i believe he can play better but i believe he's got a little shoulder issue that he's playing through (evidenced by the kinesiotape). Hopefully the bye helps him heal up a bit.
Thanks for the mention of the kinesiotape. I've wondered what it was during the game but I always forget to ask about it later.

Interestingly enough, I read about it, and it seems to be like those magnet bracelets that were the rage awhile back:

"There is very little evidence that elastic therapeutic tape produces clinically significant benefits." Source

Very interesting to see an NFL team using it. I don't have much beyond finding it interesting, though.

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Sometimes the other team makes good plays. I don't see that play as an indictment of Schaub.
It was such a quick play that I thought the same thing. I though Schaub had time, but dude jumped up like a jackrabbit and clobbered him before #8 knew what hit him.

Yeah, initially mad at Schuab after the way the play worked out, but after watching again and again in replay (beauty of DVR), I think it was so BANG BANG that you just have to chaulk it up to "stuff happens" in football.

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I will say this, I no longer question Schaub's arm strength. Some of those deep balls that were over thrown...... wow.. & that one to JJ on the sideline... perfect.

But they need to work on that more in practice. I don't understand how he can miss KDub like that.... he's been playing with the guy since 2007. & then drop it into Jacoby's bread basket when he's got stone hands.

KDub is money, get the ball close & it's a catch.
I noticed a nice long ball, too, but either his accuracy is off or his receivers aren't fast enough. But, yeah, like you said, that should put an end to the urban legend that he can't throw that far.
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Old 10-31-2011   #52
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

Pocket awareness is important obviously, but I've seen several coaches and GM's say that eye level is a more important trait for QB's. So I like that Schaub kept looking downfield on that play instead of tucking the ball and scrambling out of the pocket or looking to dump the ball off to Foster when the LB made his initial rush.
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Old 10-31-2011   #53
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Quarterbacks aren't supposed to be looking at the rush, they're supposed to be looking down the field. And that's what Schaub was doing.
exactly. If they are more worried about the rush than the play you end up with David Carr syndrome.
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Old 10-31-2011   #54
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

He was not aware that CLint session a guy that has burned him in the past was at his feet LOL
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Old 10-31-2011   #55
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

I don't think this is an indictment on Schaub's overall awareness, but yes, he should have gotten rid of the ball sooner. He saw the blitz and stepped away. At that point the ball should have come out. He loaded and hitched and...it was too late. His mistake.

I was more concerned with Matt & Gary's post game quotes.

Schaub on shots down field
Quote:
“Yeah, we had some opportunities. We had some things that we were alert and we had some plays to make downfield and really, some of those throws were on me. I know Jacoby (Jones) wants to have one back, but there were a couple that I overthrew to Kevin (Walter) and one to Jacoby. We got to make those plays. I got to find a way to make the throw and connect on those because those are momentum shifters. Those are big plays, 62-yard touchdowns that we don’t get.”
Kubiak's Monday presser:
Quote:
I was disappointed offensively that we missed some big plays. We had four or five opportunities for some huge plays in the game and we didn’t make them, so we got to step up and make those plays.”
Why did they feel like those deep passes had to be made? The offense had proven they could sustain a drive against the Jags defense. The defense had proven they could stop the Jags from sustaining long drives. Take a shot or two downfield, sure. But continue to force the ball downfield? It wasn't necessary, and it led to a turnover. I didn't get it then, and I don't see their logic, now.
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Old 10-31-2011   #56
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I don't think this is an indictment on Schaub's overall awareness, but yes, he should have gotten rid of the ball sooner. He saw the blitz and stepped away. At that point the ball should have come out. He loaded and hitched and...it was too late. His mistake.

I was more concerned with Matt & Gary's post game quotes.

Schaub on shots down field


Kubiak's Monday presser:

Why did they feel like those deep passes had to be made? The offense had proven they could sustain a drive against the Jags defense. The defense had proven they could stop the Jags from sustaining long drives. Take a shot or two downfield, sure. But continue to force the ball downfield? It wasn't necessary, and it led to a turnover. I didn't get it then, and I don't see their logic, now.
the only reason I can think of is that it might have loosened up the Jags defense by making their safeties play off the line.
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Old 10-31-2011   #57
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
But since you are rattling off stats...

David Carr completed about 70% of his passes and threw for about 3,000 yards with worse all around talent around him on offense...He was in the top half of the league in just about every meaningful QB stat...

That was Kubiak's first year implementing his system...

The system in itself produces yardage and decent looking stats...

When I watch the games I see a QB that could be doing more.
This is a bit of revisionist history.

Carr did complete 68.3% of his passes. That was #1 in the league. Yay! His passer rating was 82.1 which was 15th in the league. But it all goes south from there.

Carr threw for 2767 yards and he was 18th in the league. He threw for 11 touchdowns and that was 23rd in the league. His yards per attempt (6.3) were also 23rd in the league. He had 25 passes of 20+ yards which was 24th in the league. 31% of his passes went for first downs, that was 18th in the league.

Carr was not a QB in the top half of the league. Kubiak was able to play to Carr's strengths and dial up things and scheme the offense to protect him but to compare Carr's stats to Schaub's stats is night and day.
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Old 10-31-2011   #58
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Care to use games played instead of the number of seasons? Schaub only played 11 games in 07 and 08. 16+16+11+11 = 54 games for the Texans (not including 2011). Brady played 143 in the span you set.

Also, if you're going to cite stats and such, please post a source. According to Pro FB Ref Schaub has 29 fumbles, 21 of which were lost in those games. (ESPN credits him with 20 lost fumbles in that time)

Brady has had 72 fumbles, 56 of which were lost over that time.

Schaub's games: 54 divided by the number of fumbles lost: 21 = 2.57 games per lost fumble

Brady's games: 143 divided by the number of fumbles lost: 56 = 2.55 games per lost fumble

Not much of a difference between the two, but a far cry from saying Schaub is better than Brady in this category.


*Edited to update info.
No. I don't really care to. Let me explain a little better... I don't think it matters much because i am talking about after they became full-time starters. This is which is why Brady's rookie year and Schaub's time in Atlanta was disincluded in addition to Brady's 1 quarter season. Also, I specifically mentioned the weak offensive line that Schaub played behind as evidenced by him missing a few games and his high rate of turnovers his first two years here.

It's interesting that you have completely different stats than I do. I guess that's what happens when one seeks out second party sources like ESPN. Me? I like to go straight to the horse's mouth... the NFL themselves... sorry for not linking earlier. I usually do this via my phone and cut and paste isn't an option on it.

http://www.nfl.com/player/mattschaub/2505982/profile

Career... 35 fumbles/14 lost

http://www.nfl.com/player/tombrady/2504211/profile

Career... 73 fumbles/32 lost

FWIW, I wasn't trying to say Schaub has a better head than Brady in this category. Just that Schaub protects the ball well and yet he routinely throws bombs downfield... like Brady does.

Noodle arm. Fumble happy. Injury prone. The TM shitty throw of the game. Now... he's got poor pocket awareness. It just seems like Schaub can do nothing right by this fan base.
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Old 10-31-2011   #59
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

Just an observation from being forced to watcdh the replay's of the Pats Steelers game 9 dozen times in the past two days ..... Ive yet to see a Texans Jags highlight on ESPiN or NFL Network ..... its all Pats Steelers and Shitpies sucking. Its nice to see the Shitpies get so much negative attention ..... haha


If you look at some of the OL breakdowns by the Pats ..... Brady made many of the same mistakes Schaub has when under pressure.

Not making excuses for Schaub .... Just making an observation.
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Old 10-31-2011   #60
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Default Re: Schaub's Awareness

I crunched the numbers the way Dutch wanted to... I incorrectly calculated Schaib as of having 12 fumbles as a full time starter. He had 13. My bad... I had a "Schaub" deer in headlights moment. No excuses. I should have added that correctly... right?

Schaub... 62 ÷ 13 = 4.75

Brady... 150 ÷ 32 = 4.68

Schaub's got the better number despite having a horrid offensive line. Hmm... interesting. I learned something here about Schaub.
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