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Old 10-31-2011   #121
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Default Re: the wave

This is just honestly not the right place to be complaining about it, all joke posts aside and people arguing for the sake of arguing I really doubt anyone who bothers to log into a forum and talk about Texans football all week would actually go out there and make an ass out of themselves as a fan. I mean put up some signs, pass out flyers at the front gate, make the cheerleaders wear pom-poms that say no-wave when we have the ball. I am just saying you are preaching the choir is all.
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Old 10-31-2011   #122
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Default Re: the wave

It sounds like some of you give yourselves too much credit in believing you're influencing the play of guys on the field.

The wave was what caused Mike Briesel to false start? How do we know this? What proof is there? How many false starts has Briesel had this year? In years past? And how many were due to sloppy play vs crowd noise?

The point is, home field advantage has a very minor affect on NFL football. The consensus is between 1 and 3 points, at most. Thats a combination of sleeping in your own house, not traveling, playing on your own field, more practice time, and also home crowd advantage--part of which includes noise.

In today's NFL in which the players have headsets which allow them to speak to the coaches and all teams should and are coached to deal with noisy environments, the affect of screaming fans is exceedingly minimal.

Does crowd noise lead to false starts? Yes and no. Noisy environments can definitely make it difficult for QBs to speak with their line, but well coached teams should never have a problem with this. A well coached team watches the ball, as Briesel should have done.

I honestly cannot believe so many people are calling out the fans for doing the wave when were up 14 points in the 4th quarter.

There is so much self-loathing and comparison to other fan bases. How many of you have actually ever been to away games? I've seen the wave at multiple NFL stadiums. I've seen it in Foxboro. I've seen it in DC. Why is it that only Texans fan are so self-insulting. We are worse to each other than other fan bases are to their rivals.
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Old 10-31-2011   #123
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I'm tempted to lock this thread.
Wait a minute - I thought this was a light-hearted joke thread, parodying Internet tough talk and "I'm a better fan than you".
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Old 10-31-2011   #124
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Default Re: the wave

This is a thing? Really?

who ****ing cares.
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Old 10-31-2011   #125
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Default Re: the wave

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Originally Posted by TwistedGnarl View Post
If you are that angry, get out your wallet, buy a ticket, go to the game, and police everyone there on how to behave. Good luck with that, by the way, since by my count there were 70,000+ fans participating in the wave.

Until then, you can continue to spew your impotent rage at the television set and scream at your girlfriend's poor daughter while people who spend actual dollars in support of the team show up on gameday and do whatever it is they want.

To all of you who did not attend the game and are disparaging the 70,000 fans who attended the game and participated in the wave, you guys are superfans, right? You know better. The wave is ignorant. Etc. etc. You all know the 'right' way to support the team, correct?

Well get this. The Actual American Dollars which those 70,000 ticketholders spent go infinitely further towards supporting the Houston Texans than all of this whining and complaining on a message board.

My suggestion: put your money where your mouth is. If you are truly that appalled, get out your wallet, go to the game, and be that asshole screaming at the thousands of people around (enjoying themselves and having a good time) to shut up and sit down.
You know, that's going a little too far. If a person prioritizes their money differently than you or I, that's no knock on them or their fandom.

They have just as much right to ***** as we have for doing the wave.

I think they are way off base... it's not that we don't get it, it's not that we are ignorant.. that's the real argument, I think.

But this is no reason to get into a "real fan" argument. They'll lock this thread quicker than shit, because those never end well.
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Old 10-31-2011   #126
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Default Re: the wave

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedGnarl View Post

Well get this. The Actual American Dollars which those 70,000 ticketholders spent go infinitely further towards supporting the Houston Texans than all of this whining and complaining on a message board.

My suggestion: put your money where your mouth is. If you are truly that appalled, get out your wallet, go to the game, and be that asshole screaming at the thousands of people around (enjoying themselves and having a good time) to shut up and sit down.

More fuel for the theory that with rising prices on tickets, parking, concessions, & PSLs, the Texans, and most teams, have priced out their most of their passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Old 10-31-2011   #127
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Default Re: the wave

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Originally Posted by Kthx View Post
This is just honestly not the right place to be complaining about it, all joke posts aside and people arguing for the sake of arguing I really doubt anyone who bothers to log into a forum and talk about Texans football all week would actually go out there and make an ass out of themselves as a fan. I mean put up some signs, pass out flyers at the front gate, make the cheerleaders wear pom-poms that say no-wave when we have the ball. I am just saying you are preaching the choir is all.
I swear, the main "cheer-leader" in our section was the main guy trying to get the wave going. He's normally the same guy who tells people to be quiet on offense. It's not that he didn't know any better, or any of the guys in my section & I know most of them.

We all know the proper "etiquette" But that wasn't the point.


Let me ask this way.

Imagine we were doing it during the Raiders game. We lost that game anyway, we won this game, so let's say it doesn't affect the outcome of the game.

We are telling (in my mind) those people on the sidelines that this offense laying down just ain't the Texans way. Stop trying not to lose, mix it up & try to win.
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Old 10-31-2011   #128
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Default Re: the wave

Maybe the Texans need to run that Quiet Please ....Offense at work.....every time the offense has the ball.....they did start running it after the wave went around the stadium a few times.....

If you want to run the wave go ahead ..just do it when the Texans are on defense.

Anything...and I mean Anything that causes our offensive not to hear as well while plays are being called at Reliant is just wrong. You are helping the opposing team's defense...why? There is no excuse for that.

I think they need to run a message before the game too.......
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Old 10-31-2011   #129
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Default Re: the wave

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
It sounds like some of you give yourselves way too much credit in believing you're influencing the play of guys on the field.

The wave was what caused Mike Briesel to false start? How do we know this? What proof is there? How many false starts has Briesel had this year? In years past? And how many were due to sloppy play vs crowd noise?
It's not like we are going to audible or anything.
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Old 10-31-2011   #130
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Default Re: the wave

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post


We are telling (in my mind) those people on the sidelines that this offense laying down just ain't the Texans way. Stop trying not to lose, mix it up & try to win.
I understand your logic here, but I must ask, do you really think it will accomplish anything? Do you really think Gary Kubiak is going to look up and see the wave going around, and think to himself, "Oh shit, the fans are doing the wave; I better change up the play calling'.

You could make the same point more productively by just booing the offense after a three and out.
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Old 10-31-2011   #131
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Default Re: the wave

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedGnarl View Post
If you are that angry, get out your wallet, buy a ticket, go to the game, and police everyone there on how to behave. Good luck with that, by the way, since by my count there were 70,000+ fans participating in the wave.
It's basic stuff as a fan. I don't think anyone is as angry as you seem to perceive - or as angry as you seem to be about it - but it's simple common sense stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedGnarl View Post
To all of you who did not attend the game and are disparaging the 70,000 fans who attended the game and participated in the wave, you guys are super fans, right? You know better. The wave is ignorant. Etc. etc. You all know the 'right' way to support the team, correct?
Nobody is claiming to be "super fan". But I know for certain who is not "super fan", and that is people that make a bunch of noise while our offense is on the field.

Basic stuff here, nothing that hard to comprehend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedGnarl View Post
Well get this. The Actual American Dollars which those 70,000 ticketholders spent go infinitely further towards supporting the Houston Texans than all of this whining and complaining on a message board.
Actual American Dollars can also buy Jaguars jerseys and teal pompoms if that's who you need to root for at the game. Because that is what you are doing when you cheer for the Jaguars defense.

Basic stuff here, nothing that hard to comprehend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
It sounds like some of you give yourselves way too much credit in believing you're influencing the play of guys on the field.
A few years ago the Texans used to keep a running tally on false starts and fumbled Center/QB exchanges that were a direct result of excessive crowd noise.

You are being naive if you think homefield advantage is not something tangible for good teams. NFL history proves it to be true, as does anecdotal evidence by old Oiler fans who were at the House of Pain in it's heyday.

I just hope our fans understand this simple stuff if we host a playoff game. Homefield advantage can make a difference. Just ask 7-9 Seattle last year when they beat the Saints. There is a reason that the Seahawks stole the "12th Man" idea from Texas A&M.
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Old 10-31-2011   #132
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Default Re: the wave

The wave is so tired and played. Are we gonna dump Gatorade on Kubiak if we win the division, too?
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Old 10-31-2011   #133
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Default Re: the wave

If your own team is telling you to shut-up you are wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
A few years ago the Texans used to keep a running tally on false starts and fumbled Center/QB exchanges that were a direct result of excessive crowd noise.

You are being naive if you think homefield advantage is not something tangible for good teams. NFL history proves it to be true, as does anecdotal evidence by old Oiler fans who were at the House of Pain in it's heyday.

I just hope our fans understand this simple stuff if we host a playoff game. Homefield advantage can make a difference. Just ask 7-9 Seattle last year when they beat the Saints. There is a reason that the Seahawks stole the "12th Man" idea from Texas A&M.
Yup. Add in wasted timeouts. It is really obvious a lot of the time when noise causes a problem.
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Old 10-31-2011   #134
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Default Re: the wave

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
It sounds like some of you give yourselves way too much credit in believing you're influencing the play of guys on the field.

The wave was what caused Mike Briesel to false start? How do we know this? What proof is there? How many false starts has Briesel had this year? In years past? And how many were due to sloppy play vs crowd noise?

The point is, home field advantage has a very minor affect on NFL football. The consensus is between 1 and 3 points, at most. Thats a combination of sleeping in your own house, not traveling, playing on your own field, more practice time, and also home crowd advantage--part of which includes noise.

In today's NFL in which the players have headsets which allow them to speak to the coaches and all teams should and are coached to deal with noisy environments, the affect of screaming fans is exceedingly minimal.

Does crowd noise lead to false starts? Yes and no. Noisy environments can definitely make it difficult for QBs to speak with their line, but well coached teams should never have a problem with this. A well coached team watches the ball, as Briesel should have done.

I honestly cannot believe so many people are calling out the fans for doing the wave when were up 14 points in the 4th quarter.

There is so much self-loathing and comparison to other fan bases. How many of you have actually ever been to away games? I've seen the wave at multiple NFL stadiums. I've seen it in Foxboro. I've seen it in DC. Why is it that only Texans fan are so self-insulting. We are worse to each other than other fan bases are to their rivals.
Talk about perceptive! I just got this tweeter on my CB radio from Biesel that the wave did indeed cause his false start. "Yep did it. Eric started giggling & I thought at first it was about the crack er chop block complaints. Just the play before he said 'Brie, he does call me Brie, watch this I'm gonna go high and Wade is coming around & low'; but no he was looking in the stands at a wave. What's funny is in first quarter Matty, I do call him Martty, tried to blame that dumbass fumble on the wave; but you know he has an excuse for everything. I guess maybe he was right after all, cause I know I fell off balance and crossed the line."

I love getting them there tweeters on my CB! Makes me feel like I'm a part of the game. Now if Foster would stop tweeting me after every run saying "Did you see that one?" I could pay more attention to what is going on in the stands many of which looked empty to me. WOnder if there is an empty seat wave?
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Old 10-31-2011   #135
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Default Re: the wave

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
It sounds like some of you give yourselves way too much credit in believing you're influencing the play of guys on the field.

The wave was what caused Mike Briesel to false start? How do we know this? What proof is there? How many false starts has Briesel had this year? In years past? And how many were due to sloppy play vs crowd noise?

The point is, home field advantage has a very minor affect on NFL football. The consensus is between 1 and 3 points, at most. Thats a combination of sleeping in your own house, not traveling, playing on your own field, more practice time, and also home crowd advantage--part of which includes noise.

In today's NFL in which the players have headsets which allow them to speak to the coaches and all teams should and are coached to deal with noisy environments, the affect of screaming fans is exceedingly minimal.

Does crowd noise lead to false starts? Yes and no. Noisy environments can definitely make it difficult for QBs to speak with their line, but well coached teams should never have a problem with this. A well coached team watches the ball, as Briesel should have done.

I honestly cannot believe so many people are calling out the fans for doing the wave when were up 14 points in the 4th quarter.

There is so much self-loathing and comparison to other fan bases. How many of you have actually ever been to away games? I've seen the wave at multiple NFL stadiums. I've seen it in Foxboro. I've seen it in DC. Why is it that only Texans fan are so self-insulting. We are worse to each other than other fan bases are to their rivals.
I have been to Foxboro. They are loud - wait for it - on DEFENSE.

I went to the Green Bay game when the Texans played there a few years ago. They are loud - guess? - on DEFENSE.

If you don't think home field advantage makes a difference in games, you are kidding yourself.
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Old 10-31-2011   #136
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Default Re: the wave

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
It's basic stuff as a fan. I don't think anyone is as angry as you seem to perceive - or as angry as you seem to be about it - but it's simple common sense stuff.
When people are using expletives and writing their posts in all caps about how awful and ignorant our fans is, I don't think its overreacting to think they are angry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
A few years ago the Texans used to keep a running tally on false starts and fumbled Center/QB exchanges that were a direct result of excessive crowd noise.

You are being naive if you think homefield advantage is not something tangible for good teams. NFL history proves it to be true, as does anecdotal evidence by old Oiler fans who were at the House of Pain in it's heyday.

I just hope our fans understand this simple stuff if we host a playoff game. Homefield advantage can make a difference. Just ask 7-9 Seattle last year when they beat the Saints. There is a reason that the Seahawks stole the "12th Man" idea from Texas A&M.
You can call me naive if you want, but like I've said, I've looked at the numbers and home field advantage in the NFL is real, but a lot more subtle than the majority of fans seem to believe. Its also extremely multi-factorial, meaning that loud home fans is only a small part of what makes home field advantage what it is.

You quote the Saints Seahawks playoff game for last year, so lets look at it in detail. Your post implies that you believe that loud fans is what caused Seattle to win that game.

Lets look at the two things that fan noise can directly affect. Penalties and wasted timeouts.
NO was called for 7 penalties. The 6 listed in the play by play are
1. Defensive holding/pass interference x2
2. Intentional grounding x1
3. Illegal block/holding x3

No false starts. No illegal motions. No delay of game.

As for timeouts, NO called 1 in the 2nd quarter that set up a touchdown on the next play. This may be due to crowd noise, but more likely due to changing a play based on defense. Net effect was a TD for NO anyway.
The 2nd timeout was during a seattle series while on D and the 3rd was an injury timeout.

In the 2nd half they called their first timeout on defense, their 2nd on their 2nd to last series in the 4th, and their final timeout during seattles final series to try and buy as much time as possible.

Now, I don't have gametape so I'm just going by play by play, but it sure seems as if crowd noise did not have any tangible affects on the NO Saints.

If you look at recent NFL statistics, the home field advantage is just not all that impressive. And home field advantage encompasses so many things like where the players sleep, how far they travel, how much practice time they get, how familiar they are with the field, the weather, and finally the crowd. Even the crowd component is fairly mixed with stadium noise only being part of the issue.

Check out some articles if you want to read up on it more. This is just the first I've found that is linkable. There are whole segments of psychology that research this stuff. If you're more interested in the academic papers I can find those for you as well.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...partone/081121

In basketball if I'm sitting behind the basket, I'm waving my batons and shouting at the opposing team to try and distract him, but I don't really believe that its having an effect. Because I've seen the stats. I know that there is only a miniscule difference. It sure feels like my cheering impacts the player when he misses, but its a false impression. There are many, many more factors not being considered.

I'm not trying to discount home field advantage and good crowds. Even 1 or 2 false starts can be drive killers and that can shave points off an offense. Football is a complex game where one misstep and change the entire momentum of a game.
However, years of games have shown that in the NFL, home teams only gain about 1-3 points of an advantage over their visiting rivals. And so much goes in to that advantage, that the tangible effect of loud fans is difficult to quantify.

The point is, when up by 14 points against a hapless offense in the 4th quarter, I just don't see the wave as a big deal. I actually find the wave fun whenever I've been able to do it.

And its just so sad to me to see "fans" of the same team going after each other for not being good enough. They make it sound like if you don't wear a certain jersey or cheer a certain way or stand a certain amount of time, that its your fault that the team loses. And thats just depressing.

Because football is first and foremost a source of entertainment. Its supposed to be fun. If the Texans win or lose its on them, the coaches, and the other teams.
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Old 10-31-2011   #137
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Default Re: the wave

Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
I have been to Foxboro. They are loud - wait for it - on DEFENSE.

I went to the Green Bay game when the Texans played there a few years ago. They are loud - guess? - on DEFENSE.

If you don't think home field advantage makes a difference in games, you are kidding yourself.
& we get it right most games as well. Roughly 60,000 of us are season ticket holders. But you think you "know" more, or "know" better than the rest of us who have been doing our job week in & week out.

We didn't care this time. Why was this time different than all the other times?

Why did we "get it" against Pittsburgh, or against Oakland, but didn't get it against the Jags?

There's more to it than what y'all are thinking.

It was in protest more than anything.
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Old 10-31-2011   #138
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Default Re: the wave

Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
I have been to Foxboro. They are loud - wait for it - on DEFENSE.

I went to the Green Bay game when the Texans played there a few years ago. They are loud - guess? - on DEFENSE.

If you don't think home field advantage makes a difference in games, you are kidding yourself.
I'd love to debate this with you, but it seems you're mind is made up after being to two away games.

I don't know what to tell you. Ive been to a game at Foxboro this year, and they are loud on defense. And they cheer occasionally on offense as well. Yes, even when their team is at the line.

The idea that an entire "fanbase", on average, is going to be less intelligent than another one is pretty unrealistic, dont you think?

We're talking about the summed, average intelligence of tens of thousands of people. Why do our fans feel so inferior that they believe we are so much less intelligent than other fans?

Every NFL fanbase (with the exception of maybe the Packers) is probably pretty comparable in football intelligence when you account for market size.

Texas is a major football state. Its something we get exposed to at a very young age. High school football and college football here are big deals.

Why would we be less football knowledgeable, on average, than a city like Boston?

I just don't get this inferiority complex that our city has. Our fans are great and just as good as other fans, stop telling yourself otherwise.

As for the home field advantage part of your post, you seem to be missing the point of mine. I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference, I'm saying that the difference is only 1-3 points (depending on the time period you look at), and those 1-3 points are attributable to many factors associated with "home field"--not just crowd noise.
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Old 10-31-2011   #139
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Default Re: the wave

Thanks for the rational thoughts, gtexan. For all of the comments here accusing other fans of being stupid, uninformed, etc. This is the most thoughtful comment I've seen.

Let's assume that the crowd noise was completely responsible for the false start penalty. This seems fair enough to me.

First, the stadium was not loud during this. It was certainly not dead quiet, but to characterize the stadium's noise level as 'loud' during the wave incident is just not accurate. In fact, it was a whisper compared to what the Texans offense is likely to experience during ANY road playoff game in the NFL.

If this offense cannot play through that low level of crowd noise, then many of you will soon have plenty more to complain about than an unruly home crowd.
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Old 10-31-2011   #140
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Wink Re: the wave

I thought it was nice to see the wave in Houston again, we need a little firing up and whether it was on Offense/Defense doesn't really matter. It may be stupid or foolish, it may be the wrong time to do it, doesn't really matter to me... just good to see a bit of spirit... Our seats are on the sunny side of the stadium so the wave was about the only circulation happening in that stadium.
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