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Old 10-26-2011   #41
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Wow how insightful. That has to be one of the post ever. You are talented my friend.
LOL, I just didn't agree with what you said. I don't think your an ***** at all, just optimistic. Nothing wrong with that at all in my opinion. I just felt like busting out my favorite movie quote.
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Old 10-26-2011   #42
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by TexansForTheW View Post
LOL, I just didn't agree with what you said. I don't think your an ***** at all, just optimistic. Nothing wrong with that at all in my opinion. I just felt like busting out my favorite movie quote.
Im guessing he didnt get the Billy Madison reference
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Old 10-26-2011   #43
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

Mario was taken from us just as he was starting to really take off I think. The entire defense is playing much better now but that was destined to happen whether Mario played or not. We just got better as we got deeper into the season. Now Reed has come in and he's going to need time to adjust. Barwin is going to need time to adjust. Antonio tore it up at the start of the season but he's now caught the attention of OC's around the league and he no longer can count on the extra attention that was being paid to Mario. If Barwin keeps improving he'll start to get that kind of attention too.

All the while we just keep getting better on that side of the ball.

I hope it is possible to keep Mario Williams. I think he was heading for DeMarcus Ware type numbers and effect. I think Mario + Barwin + Reed ( + Watt + Smith + Cushing) is going to be an impossible problem for offenses in the next couple of years if we can keep it together.
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Old 10-26-2011   #44
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Mario was taken from us just as he was starting to really take off I think. The entire defense is playing much better now but that was destined to happen whether Mario played or not. We just got better as we got deeper into the season. Now Reed has come in and he's going to need time to adjust. Barwin is going to need time to adjust. Antonio tore it up at the start of the season but he's now caught the attention of OC's around the league and he no longer can count on the extra attention that was being paid to Mario. If Barwin keeps improving he'll start to get that kind of attention too.

All the while we just keep getting better on that side of the ball.

I hope it is possible to keep Mario Williams. I think he was heading for DeMarcus Ware type numbers and effect. I think Mario + Barwin + Reed ( + Watt + Smith + Cushing) is going to be an impossible problem for offenses in the next couple of years if we can keep it together.

Mario has had significant injury problems in 4 of his 6 years. He has an unremarkable motor. He has very limited ability in coverage. ...

The Texans are about to pay the following: Arian Foster, Connor Barwin, Duane Brown.... all significantly more money than they have been making. They also have to renew Schaub's contract this off-season (FA in 2013). It just seems impractical to give Mario a huge deal with all these other bills coming due. Not to mention, if they do have the money, I'd rather them go after another FA defensive back.

All that being said, if Mario does come back healthy and motivated next year, I would not be surprised to see him have a 13 or 14 sack season.
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Old 10-26-2011   #45
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Im guessing he didnt get the Billy Madison reference
He took it hard lol.
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Old 10-26-2011   #46
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
He has very limited ability in coverage...

Being more flexible doesn't always make you a better player.

I see you keep harping on this, but it doesn't really mean much.
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Old 10-26-2011   #47
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Part of Mario's disruption allowed everyone else to get off, get sacks & disrupt... what we're saying here, is that we're not seeing Antonio, Watt, or Barwin causing as much havoc as they did when Mario was in the game.


It's not nut hugging, it's an observation. We've had one JJWatt sighting in three games. .5 sacks from Antonio & basically a no show anywhere else during that time.

& we're all giving Barwin & Reed time to grow into their positions, we're just saying where Mario was playing before the injury, to what we're getting out of the DL.... big difference.
Exactly...don't know why its so hard for some to see this.
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Old 10-26-2011   #48
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by TexansForTheW View Post
He took it hard lol.
Sorry didnt catch that.
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Old 10-26-2011   #49
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Being more flexible doesn't always make you a better player.

I see you keep harping on this, but it doesn't really mean much.
Exactly. Terrel Suggs, James Harrison, Demarcus Ware, etc..are all limited in what they can do in coverage, but why would you want them in coverage anyways? Their strength and Mario's is to get after the quarterback. If you were to build a team with a 3-4 defense, and you filled your OLB's (especially the one designated to be the main pass rusher) with coverage guys then they better be elite at that because you will need a sundial to time how long the opposing quarterback has to throw.
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Old 10-26-2011   #50
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Exactly...don't know why its so hard for some to see this.
Because it's not true. Barwin was all over the field. Smith caused a int/ td. Wat had several good stops. We dominated on defense nearly shutting them out. What about Cushing? Mario's absence didn't seem to affect his game.

Teams make adjustments to stop what other teams are doing successful and that opens up things for other players. That's more if what you're seeing than what any of the Mario lovers have described.

And of course Mario racked up some sacks in the first four games. What no one wants to recognize is that it came against 4 OL's that were either banged up or not that good. Out of all Mario's sacks this season, only one came from him making a solid technique move and that was against a TE Dallas Clark.

He played the run really well but was not a disruptive player like all his fans want you to believe. By the end of the year Barwin will make everyone forget about Mario and the combo of reed and Barwin will be more beneficial to this team than Mario and Barwin ever could of.
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Old 10-26-2011   #51
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Because it's not true. Barwin was all over the field. Smith caused a int/ td. Wat had several good stops. We dominated on defense nearly shutting them out. What about Cushing? Mario's absence didn't seem to affect his game.

Teams make adjustments to stop what other teams are doing successful and that opens up things for other players. That's more if what you're seeing than what any of the Mario lovers have described.

And of course Mario racked up some sacks in the first four games. What no one wants to recognize is that it came against 4 OL's that were either banged up or not that good. Out of all Mario's sacks this season, only one came from him making a solid technique move and that was against a TE Dallas Clark.

He played the run really well but was not a disruptive player like all his fans want you to believe. By the end of the year Barwin will make everyone forget about Mario and the combo of reed and Barwin will be more beneficial to this team than Mario and Barwin ever could of.
This is the classic undersell of Mario. Everything he has done is because the guys lined up across for him are bad or are injured. Just give the man his credit when credit is due.

And how you are so sure that a combo of Brooks Reed and Connor Barwin will be "more beneficial" to this team than Barwin/Mario is beyond me, when the reason you feel that way is because of Barwin who happens to be the common variable among the 2 duos? You're basically saying Reed is better than Mario...
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Old 10-26-2011   #52
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
anyone saying that rather have reed over barwin at this point is just being obtuse. Mario after missing what is basically 3 games is still leading the team in sacks. Since he went down, Antonio Smith has essentially disappeared.

It is true that our defense hasn't really missed a beat with him out & Reed in, but just think how much better we'd be with a player with Mario's skills & it's scary.

I'll even go so far as to say that the Raider's game turns out a little differently if mario plays the entire game. That TD that Campbell steps up into the pocket & hits chaz schilens...i have to believe that mario...or someone else as a result of the attention paid to mario stops him from stepping up in the pocket like that.
It would have been a different game because QBs like Campbell fold when under pressure...and he was doing pretty bad out there until Mario went out and he started to get more time and made some plays.

Mario was a gamechanger and playmaker, you don't let those guys go just fore a more cheaper option.
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Old 10-26-2011   #53
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Being more flexible doesn't always make you a better player.

I see you keep harping on this, but it doesn't really mean much.
I'm not saying Reed is better than Mario... Of course he isn't yet. But, flexibility for a 3-4 OLB is a very valuable commodity. Reed's skill set allows more disguise for the defense. I believe that added element will largely make up for the loss of Mario (barring further injury losses to DEs and OLBs)... by the way, it will more than do that for the 5 or 6 games each season that Mario simply doesn't show up to play.
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Old 10-26-2011   #54
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

Doesnt really matter, Wade and his staff know how to coach players up. Peter King REALLY likes Reed:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...?sct=nfl_wr_a3

Quote:
Making up for the missing Williams, rookies J.J. Watt and Brooks Reed (mark my words -- he's going to be a very good NFL pass-rusher) had Houston's two sacks, and the Texans held Tennessee to 148 yards.
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Old 10-26-2011   #55
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
But, flexibility for a 3-4 OLB is a very valuable commodity.
Depends on how you are running your defense. In Wade's defense one of his OLB's rushes a majority of the time while the other one drops into coverage more.

Quote:
Reed's skill set allows more disguise for the defense.
His skill set?

What is his skill set?

Is he great in coverage or something?


Quote:
I believe that added element will largely make up for the loss of Mario (barring further injury losses to DEs and OLBs)... by the way, it will more than do that for the 5 or 6 games each season that Mario simply doesn't show up to play.
I don't believe that Reed will "make up for" not having Mario. I think he is capable of being a good player, but he will need some time.

In Wade's scheme you pretty much know that one OLB is coming a majority of the time anyways so even if Reed is good in coverage (which I don't know that he is) it doesn't add any more of an element of surprise IMO.
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Old 10-26-2011   #56
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Because it's not true. Barwin was all over the field. Smith caused a int/ td. Wat had several good stops. We dominated on defense nearly shutting them out. What about Cushing? Mario's absence didn't seem to affect his game.

Teams make adjustments to stop what other teams are doing successful and that opens up things for other players. That's more if what you're seeing than what any of the Mario lovers have described.

And of course Mario racked up some sacks in the first four games. What no one wants to recognize is that it came against 4 OL's that were either banged up or not that good. Out of all Mario's sacks this season, only one came from him making a solid technique move and that was against a TE Dallas Clark.

He played the run really well but was not a disruptive player like all his fans want you to believe. By the end of the year Barwin will make everyone forget about Mario and the combo of reed and Barwin will be more beneficial to this team than Mario and Barwin ever could of.


This is a joke & pure haterade-sipping.... especially the bolded mainly b/c there is absolutely nothing that has been seen or done on the field thus far that has indicated this is quite possible.

2nd, the things you're knocking Mario on, Barwin was on the field opposite of him playing against the same not-so good / banged up OL too & dude still wasn't even really a factor.

Furthermore, when someone is being as "disruptive" as you claim Barwin has been all along, it usually translates into stats in some kind of way, Barwin is no where in any meaningful kind of stat thus far this year....period.

It's pretty obvious to everyone except you that Mario being on the field makes us better, but whatever, you can keep on being the smartest guy in the room....i'll roll with Wade on this one.
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Old 10-26-2011   #57
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by hradhak View Post
I think the team is definitely better with Mario in the lineup. Mario draws the double team that now goes after Antonio. Antonio's numbers are down after Mario has been out. Antonio still get penetration but he is not taking the QB down. Mario has great numbers but his real threat is that he frees up the rest of the line to take down the QB.

In my mind, I don't think you can not resign Mario. He's a freakish athlete and as an OLB his franchise tag is lower than it would be if he were an DE. ($13 vs $10 mil). I think you need to sign him though and free up your cap room somewhere.

Anyone know how much cap space we will have next season with the increase in yearly cap room
Not known ntil NFL sets it next year pre-season.
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Old 10-26-2011   #58
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
i'm not saying reed is better than mario... Of course he isn't yet. But, flexibility for a 3-4 olb is a very valuable commodity. Reed's skill set allows more disguise for the defense. I believe that added element will largely make up for the loss of mario (barring further injury losses to des and olbs)... By the way, it will more than do that for the 5 or 6 games each season that mario simply doesn't show up to play.

We. Dont. Run. A. Traditional. 3-4.

Flexibility is a + for every team, period. The more any 1 player can do the better for him & the team. You guys keep trying to pigeon-hole this defense as the tradtional 3-4 & Wade's defense isn't that. Will it really matter that much more if Reed/Barwin drop back 2-3 more times than Mario would at the OLB position? The answer is likely no b/c at the end of the day, you want those guys doing what they do best....which is rushing the passer. & when it comes to that we already know Mario was the best on the team at it going in & he was more than proving he was the best at it this year even though it was from a different position.
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Old 10-26-2011   #59
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I'm not saying Reed is better than Mario... Of course he isn't yet. But, flexibility for a 3-4 OLB is a very valuable commodity. Reed's skill set allows more disguise for the defense. I believe that added element will largely make up for the loss of Mario (barring further injury losses to DEs and OLBs)... by the way, it will more than do that for the 5 or 6 games each season that Mario simply doesn't show up to play.
The best part about Mario is that you can tell the oline he's coming and they can do nothing about it. You don't even have to disguise or hide him...

Also I don't see the same games you see where Mario doesn't show up. I'm guessing you are talking about games he didn't have a sack though.
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Old 10-26-2011   #60
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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The best part about Mario is that you can tell the oline he's coming and they can do nothing about it. You don't even have to disguise or hide him...

Also I don't see the same games you see where Mario doesn't show up. I'm guessing you are talking about games he didn't have a sack though.
No, I'm talking about games where he is content to hand-slap with tight ends or tackles (in one on one situations) at the line of scrimmage. Last year, the best example was the San Diego game, though there were others.

This year, he had a no-show vs. New Orleans. Particularly condemning was a seal block that Robert Meachem put on Mario, leading to a 30 yard TD run by Darren Sproles.
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