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Old 10-26-2011   #21
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

Reed is more comfy at olb, and probably better at the run at this point in this defense I should add..(Mario was good against the run in the 4-3)

But Mario is a dynamic player and with him we had possibly the best pass rush in the NFL. At the very least a top 3 pass rush. It has taken a drop since Mario went out, that much is obvious.

I'm all about dynamic players. Mario is that. You win in the NFL with dynamic players. The more game changers you have the better.
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Old 10-26-2011   #22
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by Malloy View Post
Also, are our player utilized different now, are we seeing a different defensive playcalling due to Mario being out?
Yes, they are. Mario was rushing passer at a much higher percentage than Reed. I think Reed dropped in coverage as much in the Titan's game as Mario did the 4+ games in which he played.
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Old 10-26-2011   #23
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I kinda liked Mario + Barwin + Reed better than Barwin + Reed + whatever we got going now.

I'm definitely for giving it more time to see how Reed & Barwin pan out, my initial observation is that there has been a serious drop off. I haven't seen Antonio Smith for 2.5 games & there's been one JJ Watt sighting in that time. Brian Cushing appears to be our best pass rusher right now.

But, Brooks is a rookie, Connor is basically in his second year. JJ is a rookie. Let's see what happens.
This. I bet Mario is not given a lengthy contract but he will be hit with the franchise tag. Makes sense to me.
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Old 10-26-2011   #24
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

The obvious answer is Mario/Barwin being more effective this year. Mario was starting to look like a monster and Barwin/Smith performed well backing that up. With the spotlight on Barwin and Smith now, with Reed backing it up....I'd say the pass rush is lesser but the defense as a whole hasn't really skipped a beat. Credit to Wade and obviously the players for that. Barwin is really rounding into form though, if Reed becomes a CB clone we'll have a serious, serious discussion about whether or not to keep Mario or try to draft another clone....

And Cushing? My god it's like he re-learned how to haul ass. I believe he juiced but come on, SOMETHING was wrong with him last year. Not running, not hitting people, not making plays. THIS is what we've needed from him. He's another big boy clone too.
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Old 10-26-2011   #25
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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And Cushing? My god it's like he re-learned how to haul ass. I believe he juiced but come on, SOMETHING was wrong with him last year. Not running, not hitting people, not making plays. THIS is what we've needed from him. He's another big boy clone too.
Cushing is a downhill player. So is Demeco. That doesn't mean they can't or won't play sideline to sideline, but like Foster & Tate stretch to the sideline, then take one cut & go, so do Demeco & Brian.

Almost all our players last year were downhill players, Mario, Antonio, Amobi, Kj, Glover, Pollard, Cushing, Sharpton, they all play better, make plays at or near the LOS.

I loved seeing the Texans play behind the LOS in 2009, that's what they were good at, that's what they were brought in to do. But in 2010, they were schemed to play in space..... not good for Pollard, not good for Cushing or Demeco, not good for Kj. They didn't make as many plays, they looked really, really bad.

Wade has them playing downhill, at the LOS. He's brought in players that can play & make plays in space... Jjo, Manning. He brought back McCain because that's his game, playing in space & limits the exposure of Glover, Kj, Demeco, Reed/Mario.

He's allowing our guys to use their talents to do what they do & getting great results.

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Old 10-26-2011   #26
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

Mario made the whole defense better period. Think about this Mario had 5 sacks in 4 and 1qtr games. Antonio had 4 1/2. Since Mario got injured, Antonio doesn't have any sacks. coincidence? Mario is one of the top in the league at putting preasure on qb.
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Old 10-26-2011   #27
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by srrono View Post
Mario made the whole defense better period. Think about this Mario had 5 sacks in 4 and 1qtr games. Antonio had 4 1/2. Since Mario got injured, Antonio doesn't have any sacks. coincidence? Mario is one of the top in the league at putting preasure on qb.
And we didn't see nearly as many "almost-sacks" by Mario, because
the receivers were covered much better than before. The QB had
to look past his first read, and before he could get rid of the ball,
he was down.
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Old 10-26-2011   #28
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

I'm taking Mario plus whoever you want to put on the other side.

Brooks Reed still struggles to get off of blocks when linemen get their hands on him. He doesn't collapse the pocket like Mario did and he's nowhere near as good against the run.

That said, he is a rookie and is going to get plenty of playing time to show progress and improve.

But if I'm answering this question now, it's Mario.
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Old 10-26-2011   #29
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I'm taking Mario plus whoever you want to put on the other side.

Brooks Reed still struggles to get off of blocks when linemen get their hands on him. He doesn't collapse the pocket like Mario did and he's nowhere near as good against the run.

That said, he is a rookie and is going to get plenty of playing time to show progress and improve.

But if I'm answering this question now, it's Mario.
This^^

Mario was on a mission before he went down. We're still getting a little pressure on QBs, but nowhere near what we had with Mario. Honestly, imo, it's not even a close comparison at this point. Towards the end of the season, maybe.
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Old 10-26-2011   #30
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

Yeah, I have to admit I have been pretty hard on MW in the past (in real life not on the forums obviously) and kinda under rated him as a player. This year he really proved his value in the first four games, now if he could just stop getting injured it would be nice. I think Reed will step up his pass rush before the season is out though, hide and watch as my pops used to say.
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Old 10-26-2011   #31
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

I think the team is definitely better with Mario in the lineup. Mario draws the double team that now goes after Antonio. Antonio's numbers are down after Mario has been out. Antonio still get penetration but he is not taking the QB down. Mario has great numbers but his real threat is that he frees up the rest of the line to take down the QB.

In my mind, I don't think you can not resign Mario. He's a freakish athlete and as an OLB his franchise tag is lower than it would be if he were an DE. ($13 vs $10 mil). I think you need to sign him though and free up your cap room somewhere.

Anyone know how much cap space we will have next season with the increase in yearly cap room
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Old 10-26-2011   #32
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

I got flamed in another thread when Mario went down for daring to suggest that he made it possible for those around him to make more plays.

I'm confident that our front 7 is still operating at a high level and Brooks Reed has hit the ground running and is an exciting prospect for the future who will only improve with time.

The thing is, that the loss of Mario takes us from a great unit to a good unit.

I think there will be some discussion to be had come the end of the season about what sort of contract we offer Mario, dependent on the development of the Reed/Barwin partnership, because we still have holes elsewhere and if you could get a really good DT AND CB2 by passing on Mario, AND Barwin/Reed prove to be productive by the end of the season, it will be an interesting decision to make as to which improves your team the most.

And thats coming from a huge Mario fan btw.
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Old 10-26-2011   #33
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post

The thing is, that the loss of Mario takes us from a great unit to a good unit.
I think that is the initial perception. Jacksonville will tell us a lot. Their line is pretty bad, as bad as the lines we played with Mario (Indy, Miami, Pittsburgh) the last few lines we've played may end up pretty dang good (Oakland, Baltimore, Tennessee) it's just too early to tell.

But if Barwin, Watt, Antonio, Reed don't show up on the stat sheet after the Jags game, it will be another hint in the direction of Mario's contribution.
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Old 10-26-2011   #34
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

anyone saying that rather have reed over barwin at this point is just being obtuse. Mario after missing what is basically 3 games is still leading the team in sacks. Since he went down, Antonio Smith has essentially disappeared.

It is true that our defense hasn't really missed a beat with him out & Reed in, but just think how much better we'd be with a player with Mario's skills & it's scary.

I'll even go so far as to say that the Raider's game turns out a little differently if mario plays the entire game. That TD that Campbell steps up into the pocket & hits chaz schilens...i have to believe that mario...or someone else as a result of the attention paid to mario stops him from stepping up in the pocket like that.
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Old 10-26-2011   #35
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
anyone saying that rather have reed over barwin at this point is just being obtuse. Mario after missing what is basically 3 games is still leading the team in sacks. Since he went down, Antonio Smith has essentially disappeared..
LOL...yeah, that's a good point...

He's still one of the leaders in the NFL too...
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Old 10-26-2011   #36
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I know this will get laughed at but I think the combo of Reed and Barwin is going to be better than the combo of Mario and Barwin. Now we have legit speed off the edge's which is going to force QB's to step up more. Barwin had a very disruptive game this week and Reed played very comparable to what Barwin was producing when Mario was opposite him.
Mr. Mussop, what you've just said*... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Old 10-26-2011   #37
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Mr. Mussop, what you've just said*... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Wow how insightful. That has to be one of the post ever. You are talented my friend.
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Old 10-26-2011   #38
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
How many sacks did Mario + Barwin get?
And how many have Reed + Barwin gotten?

Or how many have the Texans gotten during those times?
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Cushing is a downhill player. So is Demeco. That doesn't mean they can't or won't play sideline to sideline, but like Foster & Tate stretch to the sideline, then take one cut & go, so do Demeco & Brian.

Almost all our players last year were downhill players, Mario, Antonio, Amobi, Kj, Glover, Pollard, Cushing, Sharpton, they all play better, make plays at or near the LOS.

I loved seeing the Texans play behind the LOS in 2009, that's what they were good at, that's what they were brought in to do. But in 2010, they were schemed to play in space..... not good for Pollard, not good for Cushing or Demeco, not good for Kj. They didn't make as many plays, they looked really, really bad.

Wade has them playing downhill, at the LOS. He's brought in players that can play & make plays in space... Jjo, Manning. He brought back McCain because that's his game, playing in space & limits the exposure of Glover, Kj, Demeco, Reed/Mario.

He's allowing our guys to use their talents to do what they do & getting great results.

Yep, it's no accident we're #8 in Total Defense and #5 in 3rd down Percentage. Wade is delivering (so far) as promised.
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Old 10-26-2011   #39
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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Originally Posted by TejasTom View Post
Yes, they are. Mario was rushing passer at a much higher percentage than Reed. I think Reed dropped in coverage as much in the Titan's game as Mario did the 4+ games in which he played.
That's because Reed didn't take Mario's place, Barwin did. Reed took Barwins spot at strong side and he has done just as good in his two starts there as Barwin did in any of his. On the flip side Barwin was as disruptive in his second start at weak OLB as Mario was in any of his. That's the problem with all the Mario jock riders around here.

When Mario gets a sack they all point at it and say see how great he is. When he doesn't it's because the other team focused solely on him so much it allowed the other players to get all the glory.

Sacks aren't near as important as being disruptive. The combo of Reed and Barwin with their speed of the edge and their ability to be interchangeable will make this D much better.

Like the Mario fans say, when he is on the field teams can shift the protection to his side. Now they won't know which way It's coming from making us faster to the ball and unpredictable.
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Old 10-26-2011   #40
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Default Re: Mario and Barwin vs Barwin and Reed

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When Mario gets a sack they all point at it and say see how great he is. When he doesn't it's because the other team focused solely on him so much it allowed the other players to get all the glory.

Sacks aren't near as important as being disruptive. The combo of Reed and Barwin with their speed of the edge and their ability to be interchangeable will make this D much better.
Part of Mario's disruption allowed everyone else to get off, get sacks & disrupt... what we're saying here, is that we're not seeing Antonio, Watt, or Barwin causing as much havoc as they did when Mario was in the game.


It's not nut hugging, it's an observation. We've had one JJWatt sighting in three games. .5 sacks from Antonio & basically a no show anywhere else during that time.

& we're all giving Barwin & Reed time to grow into their positions, we're just saying where Mario was playing before the injury, to what we're getting out of the DL.... big difference.
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