Schaub is a Mirror

[WesmanTexanfan]

I've been kicking this thought around and would like to know what everyone thinks? I know there is a schaub thread somewhere but here's my thought...

He is a mirror, he is not bad, he is not good, he simply plays up to or down to everyone around him. He mirrors the rest of our teams effort. He has led some nice drives but at the same time its because our skill players are great and make it easier on him. I just dont see him overcomeing bad team play unless other players step up, he will never win us big games by himself but at the same time i dont think he will lose them either, he isnt good or bad, he just is.

I dont know though, thats what i see, I cant complain about him but I cant praise him either...

[euro-Texan]

I think Schaub is a real good quarterback. His numbers prove that. When compared to the great QB's, his weaknesses are evident, but people are a little quick to witchhunt and point fingers. Everyone remember that Green Bay team who went undefeated last year? They didn't! They struggled due to player injuries nad turned it around at the end when they got their players back. I'm not sure if it is fair to hang everything on schaub here.

[euro-Texan]

Originally Posted by WesmanTexanfan

I dont know though, thats what i see, I cant complain about him but I cant praise him either...

This is a fair assessment in my opinion

[infantrycak]

Isn't this definitional? A great QB (not calling Schaub that) can throw a great pass to a WR who cuts the wrong way at a critical time (otherwise known as bad team play) and the come back drive stalls. A great QB (once again ...) can drop back with the perfect play called against the optimal coverage situation and if the OLine whiffs an assignment (aka bad team play) gets sacked before the route becomes open for the game winning pass.

How do you discern the difference? I don't think people spend enough time around here trying.

[mridge01]

Don't know about the whole mirror angle, but yeah, he's just a guy back there taking snaps for the most part. He usually makes the right throws, but he makes his fair share of bad ones. Doesn't have the strongest arm or accuracy, but he probably has better than average intellegence. But, you're right, he'll never be a Manning, Brees, Brady, or Rogers. Guys that can carry teams on their shoulders and win games under any situation.

[euro-Texan]

Originally Posted by mridge01

Don't know about the whole mirror angle, but yeah, he's just a guy back there taking snaps for the most part. He usually makes the right throws, but he makes his fair share of bad ones. Doesn't have the strongest arm or accuracy, but he probably has better than average intellegence. But, you're right, he'll never be a Manning, Brees, Brady, or Rogers. Guys that can carry teams on their shoulders and win games under any situation.

I seem to recall Schaub beating Rogers in GB in the freezing cold. Did Brady beat Houston when Welker went down at Reliant? There overall body of work is much better, but I don't blame Schaub for our defense last year, just as I didn't give VY credit for the tacks making the play offs in spite of him his rookie season.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by mridge01

But, you're right, he'll never be a Manning, Brees, Brady, or Rogers. Guys that can carry teams on their shoulders and win games under any situation.

And I am going to call BS on that (not with respect to Schaub but generally). It is a team sport. Roger Staubach was a far superior QB to Terry Bradshaw and yet didn't win as many rings. The team is frequently more important than any one person including the QB. Heck key plays as from this illustration between Staubach and Bradshaw are sometimes the determining factor on a season.

[mridge01]

Originally Posted by euro-Texan

I seem to recall Schaub beating Rogers in GB in the freezing cold. Did Brady beat Houston when Welker went down at Reliant? There overall body of work is much better, but I don't blame Schaub for our defense last year, just as I didn't give VY credit for the tacks making the play offs in spite of him his rookie season.

I recall that Brady has 3 superbowl rings and Rodgers has 1 in his third season. Schaub has no playoff appearances as a starter... ever.

[mridge01]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

And I am going to call BS on that (not with respect to Schaub but generally). It is a team sport. Roger Staubach was a far superior QB to Terry Bradshaw and yet didn't win as many rings. The team is frequently more important than any one person including the QB. Heck key plays as from this illustration between Staubach and Bradshaw are sometimes the determining factor on a season.

My point is those other qbs I mentioned will carry teams on their shoulders and win games. Schaub won't. Staubach was able to win games by making plays and carry his team in spite of his supporting cast which makes him a better QB than Schaub, hence a Superbowl ring.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by mridge01

I recall that Brady has 3 superbowl rings and Rodgers has 1 in his third season. Schaub has no playoff appearances as a starter... ever.

Which proves nothing to what I said. Brady got two of those on field goals and all three were considered defensive stand out games. The Cowboys of the '90's got three rings in dominating fashion (OK two based on O'Donnell being an id!ot). Does that make Aikman a better QB? Manning has a poor playoff record. Is he not one of the greatest QB's of all times and almost the definition of carrying a team? - hello 0-6 (after making the playoffs 11 of the past 12 years).

Teams win championships.

[Ryan]

Yay more Schaub threads, just what this forum needs.

[euro-Texan]

Originally Posted by mridge01

My point is those other qbs I mentioned will carry teams on their shoulders and win games. Schaub won't. Staubach was able to win games by making plays and carry his team in spite of his supporting cast which makes him a better QB than Schaub, hence a Superbowl ring.

The Pats won 11 games when Brady missed the season. I know of one QB who can carry a team and by doing so he screwed them when he went down.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by WesmanTexanfan

I dont know though, thats what i see, I cant complain about him but I cant praise him either...

I can complain about him....

I can praise him too...

Doing those two things shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Shammy is not all bad. He does a lot of things well. But my major complaint with him is that he is limited in what he can do and because of that he can't afford too many errors. Throwing the ball into the dirt, silly INT's, Throwing balls behind his targets, too high, not getting it out fast enough...

He has not played well this year IMO. We need to make it easier on him. We added Mason, now we need to protect better and run the ball better and hopefully that will help elevate his game.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by euro-Texan

The Pats won 11 games when Brady missed the season. I know of one QB who can carry a team and by doing so he screwed them when he went down.

Right, but I think the Pats may have won 13 or 14 and made a deep play-off run (if not superbowl) had Brady been there....

Teams can still be good with less than great QB play, but great QB play normally elevates a team exponentially.

[El Tejano]

He's good. He's not the best player on the team at the most important position on the team. Enough said.

[mridge01]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Which proves nothing to what I said. Brady got two of those on field goals and all three were considered defensive stand out games. The Cowboys of the '90's got three rings in dominating fashion (OK two based on O'Donnell being an id!ot). Does that make Aikman a better QB? Manning has a poor playoff record. Is he not one of the greatest QB's of all times and almost the definition of carrying a team? - hello 0-6 (after making the playoffs 11 of the past 12 years).

Teams win championships.

You're making my point for me. Brady drove his team down the field to kick those game winning fgs. Did you see the Pats defense agains the Panthers in that superbowl, horrendous. Manning still has a superbowl and gets to the playoffs every year. It's no coincidence they are now 0-6 without him. The only difference between the last 11 years and this year is no Peyton.
Aikman is a better QB than Schaub, and I hate the Cowboys but readily admit that. Again, what part of Schaub has never made the playoffs don't you understand? What else you got?

[Kthx]

Does this mean that Ngata is going to have seven years of bad luck?

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by mridge01

You're making my point for me. Brady drove his team down the field to kick those game winning fgs. Did you see the Pats defense agains the Panthers in that superbowl, horrendous. Manning still has a superbowl and gets to the playoffs every year. It's no coincidence they are now 0-6 without him. The only difference between the last 11 years and this year is no Peyton.
Aikman is a better QB than Schaub, and I hate the Cowboys but readily admit that. Again, what part of Schaub has never made the playoffs don't you understand? What else you got?

No I am not making your point for you. You are failing to see the team for the trees. Brady was able to win on field goals because the team had held the game tight. Schaub had the team in position to win by a field goal against the Raiders. The team failed to have that be the situation.

I didn't compare Aikman and Schaub but nice attempted deflection. Check out the standings at any website. They don't have them listed - Schaub, Titans, Jaguars, Colts. What part of that don't you understand?

[Double Barrel]

I think Schaub is a solid field general, much in the vein of Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson (both have rings, btw).

I think he is the type of QB that can manage an offense, and with a great defense, he could win some playoff games.

But at this point, he's not clutch. He tends to put himself in position to make plays, but then mistakes out when the moment arrives.

That being said, I think there are around 20 teams that would start Schaub right now. So he's far from being a bad QB. Like the rest of this offense, he just needs AJ to succeed.

QBs, in general, take too much credit and too much blame. It's a very interesting position to evaluate in a team sport. Marino, on of the NFL's all time great passers, has no rings. Big Ben, a solid field general, has two rings. So rings are merely part of a bigger evaluation picture. You have to look at body of work and nuances in the game.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

That being said, I think there are around 20 teams that would start Schaub right now.

There is the kind of non black and white conversation I am talking about. Lots of teams would prefer Schaub over their current situation. At the same time he has not proven to be the elevate any team kind of QB either ... although that is something of a myth. Manning (everyone knows which one) has one ring. How long has it been since Brady got one? Marino never did. And yet all three would be listed by most in the top 5 QB's of all time if this was a theoretical discussion in the NFL Forum. Would anybody rank any of those three as worse QB's than Bradshaw who has as many rings as they do combined?

They call it the ultimate team sport for a reason.