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Old 10-18-2011   #21
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
two issues...we don't control the middle of the field as well as we should for an odd man front....aka, we need a stouter nose. When teams run on us late, its because our smaller quicker zero and one gappers are worn out by taking a pounding for 3 quarters....hence the long runs up the middle late.

Secondary plays a ton of man and we don't have top man cover guys. We have one top man cover guy. That's about it. Our S play has been poor. Quinn has been ok, but average and Manning has been a bit of a disappointment to me although he has raised the level of play. I'd call them average in zone, adequate in man.

When we load the gaps and play zero or 1 cover this team can stop the run early in the game, but teams that can protect the QB will continue to eat this secondary alive with our flawed man coverages.
So you're trying to tell me that your nose can't be 280lbs? LIAR!!!!!
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Old 10-18-2011   #22
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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So you're trying to tell me that your nose can't be 280lbs? LIAR!!!!!
I know yer being sarcastic, but I think you CAN play a smaller nose but he better be special. Cody couldn't make the Lions a few years ago, gets moved off his spot too easily and is ok, but not special. Mitchell has been a bit disappointing. What we need is a guy who a Center/Guard combo just cannot move from the middle of the field. Controlling the middle of the field is one of the key parts of an odd man front. In an even front, nobody is over the nose but you have both Guards covered...ie two men in the middle. When you reduce it to one, you gotta get a big bubble butt manbeast who can anchor.
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Old 10-18-2011   #23
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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I think you CAN play a smaller nose but he better be special. ... What we need is a guy who a Center/Guard combo just cannot move from the middle of the field. Controlling the middle of the field is one of the key parts of an odd man front.
We need Seth Payne in his prime. He pushed the pocket a fair amount but almost never got bulldozed backwards. And he was no wide load.
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Old 10-18-2011   #24
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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We need Seth Payne in his prime. He pushed the pocket a fair amount but almost never got bulldozed backwards. And he was no wide load.
Payne is a great example of a smaller (hard to call a 300 pounder smaller) player that has the ability to anchor like you want in an odd front.
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Old 10-18-2011   #25
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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Twice in the 4th Qtr the defense gave the offense the ball with a manageable score. 19-14, twice. That's as good as it gets when we're supposed to be an offensive team.

If we can run time off the clock & score 10 points on those drives, then we've got a rested defense that could probably get us one more stop.

I agree, this is supposed to be an offensive team & they're being outplayed by a half-cocked defense missing their best player.
Giving up 29 points which included 5/5 field goals, 24 first downs, and 400 yards of offense to the Ravens is outplaying the offense to you? You must have some seriously low standards.

Also, you have alot of what if's going on in that statement. And assuming the defense could "probably get us one more stop" doesnt exactly give me alot of confidence.

The defense needs to step up and play better. You cant allow teams to put up 30 points each week and expect a winning record.
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Old 10-18-2011   #26
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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Giving up 29 points which included 5/5 field goals, 24 first downs, and 400 yards of offense to the Ravens is outplaying the offense to you? You must have some seriously low standards.
Our defense is outplaying our offense.

Our defense where just about every player is playing a new position or for a new team with a new position coach & a new defensive coordinator is outplaying our "elite" offense where most every player has been hear for more than three years with the same "defacto" offensive coordinator.
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Also, you have alot of what if's going on in that statement. And assuming the defense could "probably get us one more stop" doesnt exactly give me alot of confidence.
What if the offense scored when the defense gave them the ball... that's the only what if in that post.
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The defense needs to step up and play better. You cant allow teams to put up 30 points each week and expect a winning record.
I'm not going to argue that. I'm not saying the defense is playing perfect football, I'm just saying good enough. IF our offense does their job, the Ravens offense has less opportunities to score. That's football 101.
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Old 10-18-2011   #27
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

WOW who cares if its offense, defense or special teams? In the big picture it's been six years of the same crap.
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Old 10-18-2011   #28
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

Teams the Texans have beat (W-L): 4-13
Teams that have beat the Texans (W-L): 12-5

It is quite simple: the Texans beat the really bad teams and lose to the good teams. 'Taint that hard to figure out. This goes along with the defensive points allowed. The teams we have beat suck except the Stealers who account for all 4 of the wins. The teams that have beat us are all pretty good. The Texans are, again, pretty mediocre.
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Old 10-18-2011   #29
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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WOW who cares if its offense, defense or special teams? In the big picture it's been six years of the same crap.
Uh, I care. That is what this entire thread is about. There are plenty of "we suck" threads for you to visit and post in.
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Old 10-18-2011   #30
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

The offense took a huge step down the moment AJ got hurt.

We laugh a lot about how bad the Colts rely on Manning and we are the same way.

Remember this is the same team that with toe-to-toe with the Saints in a shootout. The Raiders AND Ravens DO NOT have a better offense than us...if we had Andre. The Texans Offense is still loaded with weapons (and were missing two last game against the Ravens)

When you lose your best player you take a huge step down in quality.

I'm not saying this as a excuse though because the Texans should have been prepared for this. Yet they insisted on thinking that Jacoby would be that guy and were content with Walter when receiving wise he's had one good year.

What hurts most is how much he means to the running game apparently. I thought still that Foster would get gaping holes to run through and could lead this team on offense...not happening...and that hurts.
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Old 10-18-2011   #31
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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Uh, I care. That is what this entire thread is about. There are plenty of "we suck" threads for you to visit and post in.
You would
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Old 10-18-2011   #32
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Giving up 29 points which included 5/5 field goals, 24 first downs, and 400 yards of offense to the Ravens is outplaying the offense to you? You must have some seriously low standards.

The defense needs to step up and play better. You cant allow teams to put up 30 points each week and expect a winning record.
The offense ended the game with 3 straight 3 and outs. That doesn't even take into account the various other drives in the game where they had like 5-8 snaps before punting.

The Ravens won by 2 TD's. Even if the defense just holds them to the 5 field goals they still win the game.


Score more points, go on longer drives and the defense's performance automatically improves.
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Old 10-19-2011   #33
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

OK, so it's decided:

If BOTH the offense and defense had played a LOT better, we could've made it a little closer.
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Old 10-19-2011   #34
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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The offense ended the game with 3 straight 3 and outs. That doesn't even take into account the various other drives in the game where they had like 5-8 snaps before punting.

The Ravens won by 2 TD's. Even if the defense just holds them to the 5 field goals they still win the game.


Score more points, go on longer drives and the defense's performance automatically improves.

The final field goal came after a 4 & out, turn over on downs. They got the ball on the 25??

You can't blame the defense for those 3 points.
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Old 10-19-2011   #35
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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The final field goal came after a 4 & out, turn over on downs. They got the ball on the 25??

You can't blame the defense for those 3 points.
Can we blame them for the 97 yard touchdown drive? The 66 yard touchdown drive?

Listen, I am not trying to blame the defense solely for the loss. The offense, defense, special teams and coaches are all to blame for the wins and losses we have this season. Simply I am trying to argue that for this team to win games the defense has to keep us out of shootouts. And they have to step up when the offense is missing one of its 2 essential players to make this offense as successful as it has been.

As long as the other team is scoring 30 PPG we are going to be a .500 club. With or without AJ.
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Old 10-19-2011   #36
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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Can we blame them for the 97 yard touchdown drive? The 66 yard touchdown drive?

Listen, I am not trying to blame the defense solely for the loss. The offense, defense, special teams and coaches are all to blame for the wins and losses we have this season. Simply I am trying to argue that for this team to win games the defense has to keep us out of shootouts. And they have to step up when the offense is missing one of its 2 essential players to make this offense as successful as it has been.

As long as the other team is scoring 30 PPG we are going to be a .500 club. With or without AJ.
I get that you aren't saying that the defense isn't without warts, but we all knew that the defense was going to struggle some...

What I am saying (I can't speak for TK) is that if the offense plays up to the level that they are expected to be playing at they can make it easier on the defense.

Sure the defense can exceed expectations and bail out the offense, but that's not going to happen too often. And really, no one should expect that.

If the offense sustains longer drives and capatalizes when the defense does make stops then you wouldn't see 30ppg being put up by opposing teams.
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Old 10-19-2011   #37
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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I get that you aren't saying that the defense isn't without warts, but we all knew that the defense was going to struggle some...

What I am saying (I can't speak for TK) is that if the offense plays up to the level that they are expected to be playing at they can make it easier on the defense.
That is the chicken and the egg argument. Which one comes first? A good offense makes the defense better, or the defense makes the offense better? Bottom line, the Texans defense needs to play like the unit they have been built to play like. Even without Mario, and excluding Ryans #33 overall, there are 5 first round draft picks. If the Titans score over 27 points on offense I will consider that a failure on our defense, despite the end result.

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Sure the defense can exceed expectations and bail out the offense, but that's not going to happen too often. And really, no one should expect that.
Why cant I expect that? We have 9/11 starters on defense that are 1st and 2nd round draft picks, and a high profile defensive coordinator. With that kind of investment we should have a damn good defense who plays up to their potential.


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If the offense sustains longer drives and capatalizes when the defense does make stops then you wouldn't see 30ppg being put up by opposing teams.
Again, chicken and the egg. No defense should give up a 97 yard drive to the Baltimore Ravens. A team that prides itself on Defense and ball control. The Saints, Packers, Patriots, OK, they are offensive juggernauts. But the Ravens should have been forced to punt and give our offense good field position.
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Old 10-19-2011   #38
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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The offense ended the game with 3 straight 3 and outs. That doesn't even take into account the various other drives in the game where they had like 5-8 snaps before punting.

The Ravens won by 2 TD's. Even if the defense just holds them to the 5 field goals they still win the game.


Score more points, go on longer drives and the defense's performance automatically improves.
Texans had 76 yards in their final five drives
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Old 10-19-2011   #39
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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If the offense sustains longer drives and capatalizes when the defense does make stops then you wouldn't see 30ppg being put up by opposing teams.
It's about opportunities. If our offense stays on the field 6 minutes per drive & their offense stays on the field 6 minutes per drive, then that's 5 possessions total for each team. 60 minutes. that's only 5 scoring opportunities. 2 touchdowns & 3 field goals = 23

Our defense got two turnovers. So we should have been up +2 in possessions. That's 2 touchdowns & 1 field goal = 17 points. But the 3 & outs cancelled out the turnovers.

29 points, when they shouldn't have had the opportunity to score 26.
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Old 10-19-2011   #40
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Default Re: Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season

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Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
That is the chicken and the egg argument. Which one comes first? A good offense makes the defense better, or the defense makes the offense better? Bottom line, the Texans defense needs to play like the unit they have been built to play like. Even without Mario, and excluding Ryans #33 overall, there are 5 first round draft picks. If the Titans score over 27 points on offense I will consider that a failure on our defense, despite the end result.

Draft status has nothing to do with what a player actually does on Sunday.


Quote:
Why cant I expect that? We have 9/11 starters on defense that are 1st and 2nd round draft picks, and a high profile defensive coordinator. With that kind of investment we should have a damn good defense who plays up to their potential.
The defense was terrible last year and has never really been great.

If you expected them to be able to come into this season and dominate teams then I think you set your own self up for failure. Not sure why you keep bringing up draft status of the players. It's like that is the only thing you are taking ino account and completely ignoring the fact that the defense is coming off of a terrible year, has never really had a great year, switched schemes coaches ect...Had one of the worst secondaries ever last year and is still playing two of those players back there...





Quote:
Again, chicken and the egg. No defense should give up a 97 yard drive to the Baltimore Ravens. A team that prides itself on Defense and ball control. The Saints, Packers, Patriots, OK, they are offensive juggernauts. But the Ravens should have been forced to punt and give our offense good field position.

Did I say that the defense is playing well or that it's ok that they did that?

I've tried to explain myself well here, but I think you are missing my point.

The defense is not playing great, but they have improved since last year while the offense looks like it has regressed. If the offense is this teams strong suit then they need to be the catalyst to our wins. If they sustain longer drives throughout the game then the defense gets rest and opposing offenses have less chance to score against our not so awesome defense.

The offense is not doing what they are supposed to. The defense is playing better.

They gave the offense the ball with a chance to take the lead twice in the 4th quarter agains the Ravens...

Yeah they folded late and gave up a big TD, but you can only take so many hits before you fall...That has nothing to do with chicken and egg...
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