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Old 05-02-2004   #21
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Originally Posted by Lucky
I know SteelBlue may not agree with me , but I thought Peek showed a lot of upside in regards to coverage last season. But I think Peek will have to show the Texans very early on that he's ready to win the LOLB spot before the Texans move Wong inside.
I admit I am much better judging linemen than I am judging linebackers for some reason. I just do not have as intuitive a feel for their position it seems. I think Peek has tremendous skills, but I think he needed to grow up last year. Dom Capers just may be the perfect coach for him. Dom is patient, knows how to relay his thoughts on why discipline is important, and linebackers all seem to play their best under him. I think if Peek comes back more mature and wiser, we may see something special. Capers and Casserly have both stated it takes about 3 years for a DE "tweener" to reach is full skill set as they mature into 3-4 OLB's. Players show their biggest jump in improvement from year one to year two, so I am willing to support Peek, and give him a clean slate as a fan. He seems like a nice enough guy. Lord knows he has ability. Let's see if Capers can harness it.
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Old 05-02-2004   #22
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Originally Posted by cap1
On a side note who are the back up ILBs?

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Troy Evans, who is a great special teams player, and Travis Carroll.......OUCH!!!!

remember we also signed marcus bell and deshaon polk...they are also ILB's
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Old 05-02-2004   #23
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Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
Not dissing the vets, but Babins fits so well in our system that he gets a starting job.
And the fact we took him in the 1st round and gave up 2 picks for him, Babin will start with no questions
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Old 05-02-2004   #24
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I think Sharper is the only linebacker that is without question an "absolute starter". This camp should have a tremendous battle for the other positions. I don't think that we will see Foreman or Wong starting here in two years.
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Old 05-02-2004   #25
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Originally Posted by Lucky
...in his 1st pro year, Peek has (gained) coverage experience...
I agree; what it boils down to is whether Babin has more natural talent and ability in this area and how fast he can adapt these to the pro game. We paid a high price for him and I should hope he has the advantage of Peek. And having just written this and having reviewed your response, I realize you are considering that Peek may be the player for the left side. I hadn't thought this, but it does represent a posibility. Any way you line them up, I hope both Peek and Babin have the capability of winning a starting spot and giving the Texans two 10+ sack seasons.
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Old 05-02-2004   #26
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I keep seeing "high price". We only gave up a one first day pick to have two first rounders. Sure, its a first day pick, but we received a 1st round selection.

I think that the Titans were going to trade down regardless. If we did not trade with them, they would have found someone else. If we do not make this move we are stuck with a lower quality edge rusher instead of the pick of the litter. We had an extra 4th from CC's previous deals, so we really only missed a pick in the 3rd round. A lot of people seem to consider a few second day picks "a high price to pay".... I'm not sure I can get onboard with that kind of thinking. Just look at the history of the NFL draft. 2nd day picks are no sure things whatsoever.
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Old 05-02-2004   #27
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I thought we had paid a high price when I first heard of the deal, but after analyzing it, I think it will end up being a great move. While depth is important, I'd rather have a stud starting and then worry about depth than have more second-tier guys for depth and no stand out to start.
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Old 05-02-2004   #28
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To the average eye I guess u could say the trade seems very HIGH but when u look at the trade in contrast it doesnt seem bad at all actually it seems very good.
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Old 05-02-2004   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelBlue
I keep seeing "high price". We only gave up a one first day pick to have two first rounders. Sure, its a first day pick, but we received a 1st round selection.

I think that the Titans were going to trade down regardless. If we did not trade with them, they would have found someone else. If we do not make this move we are stuck with a lower quality edge rusher instead of the pick of the litter. We had an extra 4th from CC's previous deals, so we really only missed a pick in the 3rd round. A lot of people seem to consider a few second day picks "a high price to pay".... I'm not sure I can get onboard with that kind of thinking. Just look at the history of the NFL draft. 2nd day picks are no sure things whatsoever.
It all depends on how he turns out. I know the Texan organization had him rated highly and it seems that maybe a few other teams also did. But could he have been gotten with our 40 pick? We'll never know. Value is relative; what I put a high price on, you may not. But in my opinion, we did "pay a high price" - we paid as if he is a #1 talent. The question, which only time will tell, is : Will he turn out to be worth the "high price"? Now, I like the prospects of this player and I think that just maybe he will turn out to be worth the price; but this is no more assured than the 2nd day picks you mentioned.
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Old 05-02-2004   #30
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he should be starting at one of the OLB spots...i would like to see Peek start at the other one or be in heavy rotation with wong...i would like to see us keep babin in everydown to help him develop into the player capers wants him to be...but hey it's all capers team...he'll run it the way he wants to
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Old 05-02-2004   #31
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Originally Posted by Number19
But in my opinion, we did "pay a high price" - we paid as if he is a #1 talent. The question, which only time will tell, is : Will he turn out to be worth the "high price"? Now, I like the prospects of this player and I think that just maybe he will turn out to be worth the price; but this is no more assured than the 2nd day picks you mentioned.
Well, of course we valued him as a first round pick. That’s were we picked him. My point is simple, if you look back at the history of the NFL draft, and see the success rate of guys picked at 71 and 103 as opposed to one of the top 30 guys selected each year, I just don't seem to understand the "paid a high cost" argument. Regardless of what we perceive, we both want the same thing; we both want our picks to be good picks. It is no more complex than that. I will judge this draft by what I see on the field. I doubt there are a handful of Texans fans that saw a single snap of Western Michigan Football last year. It will all unfold soon enough.
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Old 05-02-2004   #32
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2002 Draft......................................Last roster Play for
3rd (83).. Charles Hill DT....................Chicago Bears
6..... Howard Green DT................New Orleans Saints
7.... Greg White L.....................Washington Redskins
7 ..... Ahmad Miller DT.....................out
UDFA... Jimmy McClain LB....................Jax Jags
UDFA... Rashod Kent TE....................Just released by Texans

2003
6.... Drew Henson QB..................Cowboys F/ 2005 3rd pick
6 .. . Kieth Wright DT....................Indy Colts
7... Chance Pierce LS...................out
UDFA... Jason Davis DT...................TEXANS
UDFA... Terrance Martin DT...............TEXANS

This is not a complete list of rookie players for Houston, but I think it shows
that good players or players capable of being in the NFL for one reason or another get cut by one team due to schemes as well as talent level of the competion of the remaining players on the teams. My point being that we lost a 3rd and 4th round pick that probably would have made the team but not necessarily been keepers. JMO.

Last edited by TexasAggie; 05-02-2004 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 05-02-2004   #33
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Good point,T/A As I pointed out in another post , the Lions traded the Browns 2nd round pick acquired when they switched 1st round picks,2004 4th and 2005 5th for KC's 1st round pick. I believe KC's 1st was before Titans' 1st . IMO, we gave up more draft value. Still, I like Babin. ( too late to cry about it!)
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Old 05-02-2004   #34
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Just for fun, let's take a look at what this trade would look like (from 97-01)

1997
#27 - Rae Carruth Panthers WR
for
#40 - Dexter McCleon Rams DB
#71 - Duce Staley Eagles RB
#103 - Pete Monty Giants LB

1998
#27 - Victor Riley Chiefs T
for
#40 - Cameron Cleeland Saints TE
#71 - E.G. Green Colts WR
#103 - Omar Brown Falcons CB

1999
#27 - Aaron Gibson Lions T
for
#40 - Tony Bryant Raiders DE
#71 - D'Wayne Bates Bears WR
#103 - Sedrick Irvin Lions RB

2000
#27 - Anthony Becht Jets TE
for
#40 - Ian Gold Broncos OLB
#71 - Darwin Walker Cardinals DT
#103 - Danny Farmer Steelers WR

2001
#27 - Michael Bennett Vikings RB
for
#40 - Ken Lucas Seahawks CB
#71 - Bhawoh Jue Packers CB
#103 - Karon Riley Bears DE

1997 would certainly go in favor of the team that traded down because they got 2 quality players. Forget that Carruth is a scumbag, he wasn't a very good player,either.

1998 would be a wash as both Riley & Cleeland were disappointments to the teams that drafted them. Green & Brown have been out of the league for awhile.

1999 would be a wash since all of the players have disappointed.

2000 would give the edge to the team that traded down. Both Gold and Becht have become starters, but Gold gets the nod. Walker has become a solid tackloe, but he was cut quickly by the Cards.

2001 would certainly go in favor of the team that traded up. Lucas is a sometime starter and the other guys are hanging on as reserves. But when healthy, Bennett is an impact runner.

So what have we learned? Not much except that it's usually the team that takes the best player in the #27 or #40 slot that wins the trade. The extra picks usually have no impact. The trade this year is likely a winner or loser solely based on whether Babin becomes an impact player. Casserly & Capers believe he is, and their job security rides on these types of decisions. My money says that they're right, and I'm saving a little extra for playoff tickets this year.
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Old 05-02-2004   #35
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From what I saw last year, Peek isn't good enough against the run to play the strong side in place of Wong. He's a good rusher, is super mobile and great in pursuit but he can't hold ground like you need the strong side backer to do. I don't see Foreman going anywhere this year, bench or otherwise. The good news is that we finally have some depth at LB. Heck, Charlie Clemons could end up backing up Foreman. Troy Evans is much better at special teams than Charlie, however.
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Old 05-02-2004   #36
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Can Babin play on the left side, or strong side, in place of Wong, with Peek on the right. Was Babin a left or right end in college, or did he play strong, or weak?
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Old 05-02-2004   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistril48
Was Babin a left or right end in college, or did he play strong, or weak?
Babin played both RE and LE position in college
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Old 05-02-2004   #38
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The write up on Babin says he shows strength against the run but does not effectively take on blockers at the point of attack. His weight room strength does not translate to the football field and he'd rather elude blockers than take them on heads up. Hopeful this can be improved upon with coaching.
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Old 05-03-2004   #39
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babin projects better to ROLB in our defense, in comparison the LOLB is more of a traditional type of linebacker as they will play pass protection on the TE and occasionally drop into zone in the flats. That's not to say that LOLB never put their hand down on the line and rush, but they do it less so then the ROLB.
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Old 05-03-2004   #40
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Talking I stated this sooooo long ago

I always thought Wong was better served on the inside. I can see Babin going to his position and eek becoming the havoc on the other side. Wong has the strength and spped to play the inside position!
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