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Old 04-25-2005   #41
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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy
I'm willing to bet thats from the ESPN article that had the sample questions. Why don't you post a link or the rest of the questions, instead of the easiest two. WOuld you please?
So level of difficulty makes a test biased? Ummm, right.

Try Googling Wonderlic or Wonderlic sample questions. No reason for me to do your work for you. Of course, you could have done that prior to throwing the accusation out. How about this instead, find a single example of a wonderlic question you can even claim is racially biased?
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Old 04-25-2005   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansFanatic
In regards to the Wonderlic test:


In general, says Wonderlic, "The closer you are to the ball, the higher your score."

This assessment roughly corresponds to the averages revealed, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, by an NFL personnel man in Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking man's Guide to Pro Football," which are:

Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16

The average scores in other professions look like this:

Chemist: 31
Programmer: 29
Newswriter: 26
Sales: 24
Bank teller: 22
Clerical Worker: 21
Security Guard: 17
Warehouse: 15

You left off DL
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Old 04-25-2005   #43
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Originally Posted by TexansFanatic
This was a complete dodge of the question by Casserly. The GM CLEARLY has a handle on all personnel issues.
Capers decides who will play and what role a player has in a given scheme. Casserly stays out of it. Casserly comes in to play of course...but I assume that Capers starts the decision making part by his player evaluations.
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Old 04-25-2005   #44
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
So level of difficulty makes a test biased? Ummm, right.

Try Googling Wonderlic or Wonderlic sample questions. No reason for me to do your work for you. Of course, you could have done that prior to throwing the accusation out. How about this instead, find a single example of a wonderlic question you can even claim is racially biased?
I never said that the test was racially biased, but I admit I may not have been as clear as I wished. I think teh Wonderlic, like nearly all standardized test, are biased to some extent on economic and/or the school system these kids attened. It doesn't amtter where many of these kids went to college, as the Wonderlic isn't testing them on their knowledge of their degres or degrees as the case may be.

As for the attempt to find a question that's biased isn't really possible. Nobody who writes a test is going to be so bold/ignorant to include a question that could easliy be fond to be biased. The company's lawyers wouldn't allow it. Insteasd I'll qoute some experts on the matter (link http://www.fairtest.org/examarts/spring95/wonderli.htm)
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In fact, the Wonderlic has been widely challenged for both racial bias and lack of job-relatedness. Richard Seymour, an attorney with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law who specializes in testing litigation, has written that the Wonderlic is a "recidivist" exam, "often litigated and condemned. The NFL has not revealed whether it has ever done a validity study of the Wonderlic's accuracy, fairness and relevance. Nonetheless, pro football is one of the increasing number of employers where "if you can't pass, you don't play" refers to a simple-minded test, not real performance".
http://www.fairtest.org/examarts/summer95/merit.htm

But this is my opinion, I don't care what any of our players scored on the Wonderlic (and the SAT, just about any IQ test or stadard tesat is general despite what I may think about it) I'm really just sick of people bashing a player before he has even stepped on to the feild. Basically what I'm sayign is that we have differing points of view, and I should hav eknown better to bring it up. It's a) a hot topic issue b)not on that is condusive to the internet and c) both of use could spend days even weeks arguing the point, which would get out of hand, be entiry to time consuming and distract us from the Texans and the more importnat parts of our own personal lifes (besides I'm moving in a week and will soon be lucky to get own for the week after that)

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Old 04-25-2005   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy
As for the attempt to find a question that's biased isn't really possible. Nobody who writes a test is going to be so bold/ignorant to include a question that could easliy be fond to be biased. The company's lawyers wouldn't allow it. Insteasd I'll qoute some experts on the matter
So in other words these people have a belief based on nothing they can point to other than a result they don't like. And the "expert" doesn't even know how to use recidivist correctly.

In any event, the Wonderlic is like any other evaluation tool--a piece of the picture, just like 40 times, short shuttle, etc.--not the be all and end all to the decision.
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Old 04-25-2005   #46
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
In any event, the Wonderlic is like any other evaluation tool--a piece of the picture, just like 40 times, short shuttle, etc.--not the be all and end all to the decision.
True statement since Elway, Marino, and Aikman didn't score high on the test and we all know what kind of careers they had. The test in my opinion is simply what it is......a test.
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Old 04-25-2005   #47
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http://www.pipeline.com/~rgibson/Rac...ent-Reform.htm

Althought it goes into race, something I was trying to avoid, it is a rather interseting read. Be warned it is rather long.
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Old 04-25-2005   #48
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Originally Posted by WildBlackBear32
Those weren't even the easiest questions. The one with "which does not belong?" with 4 4-sided and one 6 sided shape and "the ninth month of the year is"...real toughies.
good thing you didnt have to take the test huh? You would have made Frank Gore look good by scoring a 2...
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Old 04-25-2005   #49
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This sounds great. McKinney is my new Matt Stevens...although that is a little too harsh.
LoL, new Matt Stevens. He said Matt Stevens. LoL
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Old 04-25-2005   #50
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Since when does a IQ test determine how good of a player you are?
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Old 04-25-2005   #51
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If Peek were a bit smarter he probably plays sooner. NFL schemes are pretty sophisticated.
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Old 04-25-2005   #52
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I am too lazy to quote the comment but dont put down Frank Gore too much. He has learning disabilities and the fact that he could hold his own at Miami is an incredible feat. Watch an interview with him and you understand how great of a young man he really is. The only reason he decided to come out of school early is to take care of his sick mother......a little off topic......

I dont think this test shows anything really, football is football. I guess you can take something into it for the fact that football playbooks are complex but they have been doing it in high school and college for awhile and if it is their entire job just to remember plays I think they can do it.
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Old 04-25-2005   #53
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I just read that David Carr had a lower Wonderlic (24) than Travis Johnson (25). So much for bashing TJ over this if true. I'll try to find it later for kicks.
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Old 04-25-2005   #54
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Alex Smith and the Harvard QB both had a 50 on this test . That means don't bet them when playing jeopardy .
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Old 04-25-2005   #55
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Alex Smith is only 20, didnt he already graduate? Fitzpatrick went to Harvard....nothing else needs to be said.
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Old 04-25-2005   #56
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I've taken this test once and made a 35 on it, I was very surprised. The main thing is, don't spend too much time on one question, the test is only 12 minutes long. I was taking it for a sales position with Cintas.
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Old 04-25-2005   #57
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Capers on 610am right now.
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Old 04-25-2005   #58
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That is a very good score for a Dlineman. The only problems I have with this pick is that he may not be the best lineman in the draft and we missed on draft an elite LB.
It's funny how before the draft mostly everyone would have said that DJ was a better pick than TJ, but after it it's vice-versa.
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Old 04-25-2005   #59
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Capers...Team will be on the practice field Friday and Saturday (twice) and will bring in about 28 new players for the rookie/FA camp.

Capers on Glenn...Met with AG the next morning because they didn't want him to hear from the media first. He said they discussed the trade and the reasoning behind bringing in a young player of Buchananís caliber. He said he would accommodate Glenn if he was uncomfortable with the situation. Glenn has talked to other teams already.

Capers talked about Mathis but I missed most of it....The new Center was the State Champion as a wrestler and they feel he has great feet and understands leverage. Lots of coach-speak otherwise. Hes gone now.
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Old 04-25-2005   #60
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That is a very good score for a Dlineman. The only problems I have with this pick is that he may not be the best lineman in the draft and we missed on draft an elite LB.
It's funny how before the draft mostly everyone would have said that DJ was a better pick than TJ, but after it it's vice-versa.
I won't deny that I was among those that thought picking up DJ was a "no brainer". The TJ pick definately surprised me as well as almost everyone else on this board. I thought DJ would be terrific for the Texans, but obviously CC and DC didn't think so. As closely as I follow the Texans, and as much as I'd like to think I'd know who fits and who doesn't with our team it's a given that CC and DC have a much better feel for who fits the team than we do. CC and DC both say that TJ is a better fit for our team, and I really can't argue with that.

BTW there were lots of mocksters who had Browner listed among the top 4 or 5 CBs in the draft early on. I know I felt that Wilkerson might go early in the 2nd Day, and he went undrafted. Things change very quickly, and when it comes to the draft just about everyone ends up being wrong about something.
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