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Old 10-13-2011   #261
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I've asked you no such thing, I don't have any faith in Kubiak or his regime. All I've ever asked is that you stop beating that incessant drum... & the point with that post, was nothing about Kubiak, it was about you. If the Texans had that same 5-0 record against those same teams you'd find some way to belittle it.

We beat the 0-5 Colts... doesn't make a shit to you that it was a division game.. none. The Colts aren't the same without Manning.... you just suck the joy out of that win... never mind that the Vikings is worse than the bad team they fielded last year.

That's a quality win for Detroit, so is the win against the 1-4 Chiefs..... we wouldn't be afforded half a second to enjoy that victory without you reminding us how worthless of a win that is...... that it's not a quality win.

What's the Lions W-L against winning teams on the road since 2002?

Look at the way they beat the Cowboys, they were dominated in that first half & Romo'd their way to a victory. If that was us, you'd be telling us how lucky we were.

Look, I don't give a shit about Gary Kubiak. All I want is to be able to enjoy a win when we win, sympathize with my fellow fans when we lose, & enjoy the freak'n season without reading the same drivel week in & week out.
You have, IMO, a mix of "grace beyond acceptable allowances" and the ability to enjoy your team no matter the circumstances. In reading your posts, you're an extremely patient person and you desire to see people win at the end of the day.

For that, I happen to think a lot of you. I've said it before, will say it again: You're likely an excellent mentor--able to be nice as pie but firm as concrete when you need to be--and people probably enjoy being around you.

On here, people are generally pretty zealous about the team being winners. So 10 years into this franchise's history, people are ready to erase the Bud Adams era with our own winning tradition. And in that, we (I include myself here) are short-tempered.

You might not like Kubiak, but I think you two guys have the same type of personality in how you handle situations and how you go onward with solutions. Maybe that's why it appears you DO like the guy? Just analyzing it a bit, and I mean no offense toward you in doing it.

People on here want to win, and win now. So...people on here are not going be gracious unto the Kubiak regime until that happens or he's gone. And it doesn't look good for Kubiak, it really never has. Improvement? Yes. Growth in the truest sense? No, not in my opinion.
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Old 10-13-2011   #262
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Man, when do the excuses and the spin ever stop with you guys from year to year??
I agree. But, I also think we should take a minute to decipher what this 5-0 really means. I don't think it means anything. If they are 9-7 or better by the end of the year, then they'll have done something & we can have this conversation then as far as I'm concerned.

Let's see them beat the Saints or the Steelers, then we can talk about how much better they are than we are. So far, all we've got is a highlight reel (a damn good one mind you) with a bunch of fluff.
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Old 10-13-2011   #263
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
I'm almost 50 and the Lions have been shoite my entire life - including the Sanders years because he was all they had. So, rather than being disingenuous and saying "they turned it around in 1.5 years", the reality is they've been utter shite since the 1950s.
What is your point? I know all about the Lions history having family from Michigan who have always rooted for the Lions. They've stunk since trading Bobby Layne, and he actually cursed them and publicly said they'd stink for 50 years, and coincidentally it happened. Bottom line though, the Lions got rid of their coaching staff a few times until they got it right. It took them to long to get rid of Matt Millen though, and that's why they went through more down years as a result. Once they got rid of him and Marinelli and brought in Schwartz things changed for the better.

That has nothing to do with the Texans though. THe Lions are just another team that have turned their franchise around faster than what the Texans have since Kubiak got hired here and for these guys to all of a sudden point to their draft picks as some euphoric excuse as to why the Lions have had all these advantages over the Texans or other teams is a laugh. None of these same guys were predicting that the Lions would be some top team in the NFL this year or proclaimed the Lions as this "lucky team" to break out because of those picks before. It's a poor attempt to act like the Lions got all of these gifts and advantages, but all they got was what sorry ass teams get in the NFL. We got high draft picks to. We've had opportunities to trade picks or to make certain moves. At the end of the day it's about results and what you build with your team. The Texans actually have a stacked team in my eyes. They just need a new coach running it and we could be a top team. We should be 4-1 right now. I still think we have a good season record wise this year.
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Old 10-13-2011   #264
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Oh please, you guys laughed off the Lions for years. THey had a ton of first day picks under Millen and they screwed up and still couldn't make anything happen. Don't give me this ploy Cak. They fired their HC and GM and gave someone else a chance and it's worked out for them now. At some point in year 6 you're going to have to admit to yourself that a ton of other franchises have done a much better job at resurging their franchises than the Texans have under Smithiak.
The Lions are definitely in the few teams that I think compare to the situation of the Texans..... Buffalo as well.

If those two franchises actually have something going.... then we've got a conversation.

I'm with the guys who said 5 years was enough... Buffalo & Detroit, how long have they had their current GM? That's probably the only real difference between our franchises.
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Old 10-13-2011   #265
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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I agree. But, I also think we should take a minute to decipher what this 5-0 really means. I don't think it means anything. If they are 9-7 or better by the end of the year, then they'll have done something & we can have this conversation then as far as I'm concerned.

Let's see them beat the Saints or the Steelers, then we can talk about how much better they are than we are. So far, all we've got is a highlight reel (a damn good one mind you) with a bunch of fluff.
Hey, I think we could beat the Lions in a head to head match up. They could beat us as well. The factor with the Lions is that they have a coach that's only been there one season before this year and he has turned this thing around fast which is what many of us have stated in here for years, while others have acted like any new HC would come in here and blow this thing up and it would take 5 years to rebuild. That theory gets proved wrong every season. Schwartz is looking like the real deal as a HC at this moment in time. Maybe they falter as the year goes on, but he doesn't have a history of horrible coaching mistakes and games where his teams always find reasons to lose to question him yet.
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Old 10-13-2011   #266
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The Lions are definitely in the few teams that I think compare to the situation of the Texans..... Buffalo as well.

If those two franchises actually have something going.... then we've got a conversation.

I'm with the guys who said 5 years was enough... Buffalo & Detroit, how long have they had their current GM? That's probably the only real difference between our franchises.
This is Schwartz 2nd season there man and they're 5-0. Haley went 11-5 in his 2nd season. Rex Ryan went to two AFC championships in his first two seasons there. That's just in the last 2 seasons. Before that I could lead off numerous examples of teams that have turned their situation around faster just by hiring new coaches. It doesn't always work, but complacency has proven to be more of a negative in the NFL where teams can rise and fall very quickly.
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Old 10-13-2011   #267
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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What is your point? I know all about the Lions history having family from Michigan who have always rooted for the Lions. They've stunk since trading Bobby Layne, and he actually cursed them and publicly said they'd stink for 50 years, and coincidentally it happened. Bottom line though, the Lions got rid of their coaching staff a few times until they got it right. It took them to long to get rid of Matt Millen though, and that's why they went through more down years as a result. Once they got rid of him and Marinelli and brought in Schwartz things changed for the better.

That has nothing to do with the Texans though. THe Lions are just another team that have turned their franchise around faster than what the Texans have since Kubiak got hired here and for these guys to all of a sudden point to their draft picks as some euphoric excuse as to why the Lions have had all these advantages over the Texans or other teams is a laugh. None of these same guys were predicting that the Lions would be some top team in the NFL this year or proclaimed the Lions as this "lucky team" to break out because of those picks before. It's a poor attempt to act like the Lions got all of these gifts and advantages, but all they got was what sorry ass teams get in the NFL. We got high draft picks to. We've had opportunities to trade picks or to make certain moves. At the end of the day it's about results and what you build with your team. The Texans actually have a stacked team in my eyes. They just need a new coach running it and we could be a top team. We should be 4-1 right now. I still think we have a good season record wise this year.
Faster? Umm, it's taken them 50 years!!! And no point in going over picks as Cak pointed out quite succinctly.
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Old 10-13-2011   #268
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This is Schwartz 2nd season there man and they're 5-0. Haley went 11-5 in his 2nd season. Rex Ryan went to two AFC championships in his first two seasons there. That's just in the last 2 seasons. Before that I could lead off numerous examples of teams that have turned their situation around faster just by hiring new coaches. It doesn't always work, but complacency has proven to be more of a negative in the NFL where teams can rise and fall very quickly.
It seems we have a matter of semantics here. One side says the Lions have been on the skids for years and the turnaround starts with the new coach (which was helped with many good draft picks).

The other side says the rebuild starts after the last good season and the new coach is just at the end of the process. (The new coach started at a lower low than the Texans last two years).

So each side can talk from their viewpoint and be adamant they are right.

=========

In the past I've been told we can't be compared to the turnaround of teams like the Falcons because they had a good base, they just recovered from a bad year or two. The Texans didn't have that base.

Now we can't be compared to the Lions because they were so bad and got so many high draft picks. The Texans didn't have the luxury of those picks.

It's that blasted Texans luck; they have been too bad to get to the playoffs, but too good to get better.
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Old 10-13-2011   #269
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I agree. But, I also think we should take a minute to decipher what this 5-0 really means. I don't think it means anything. If they are 9-7 or better by the end of the year, then they'll have done something & we can have this conversation then as far as I'm concerned.

Let's see them beat the Saints or the Steelers, then we can talk about how much better they are than we are. So far, all we've got is a highlight reel (a damn good one mind you) with a bunch of fluff.
I like the Lions and I think they are building something great.

However, I'm not ready to crown them until they face the really good NFC teams, too. Especially playing the Packers twice, because GB is a team that has had no drop-off after their championship, and it could be argued that they have actually improved with so many players coming back from injuries.

And I've seen it many times where a team starts off great, but the success is too fast for a young team to handle when the eventual adversity comes their way. Yeah, the 5-0 Lions could theoretically be 16-0, but they could theoretically be 5-11, too. I think they'll be a 9-10 win wildcard team based upon who they seem to be right now, but like you said, let's see them play through some tough teams and tough losses, not to mention the potential injuries to star players.

Lions on Thanksgiving will actually be one to watch this year. They play the Packers!
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Old 10-13-2011   #270
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
It seems we have a matter of semantics here. One side says the Lions have been on the skids for years and the turnaround starts with the new coach (which was helped with many good draft picks).

The other side says the rebuild starts after the last good season and the new coach is just at the end of the process. (The new coach started at a lower low than the Texans last two years).

So each side can talk from their viewpoint and be adamant they are right.

=========

In the past I've been told we can't be compared to the turnaround of teams like the Falcons because they had a good base, they just recovered from a bad year or two. The Texans didn't have that base.

Now we can't be compared to the Lions because they were so bad and got so many high draft picks. The Texans didn't have the luxury of those picks.

It's that blasted Texans luck; they have been too bad to get to the playoffs, but too good to get better.
They said that with the Saints, the Titans, the Cards, the Dolphins when they went from 1-15 to stealing the division from the Pats of all teams, and the ones you mentioned as well as the Lions now.

Yep, no matter the situation with other teams it's always some benefit they had or some greater downfall the Texans had even when some other team like the Lions who came from an even worse position comes jumps up faster. There is some new type of spin that's put on it, because the people that have supported Kubiak like they're his nephews don't want to admit that he wasn't the next Tom Landry that many expected him to be. There are certain fans that will always act like their players and coaches are better or have had some sort of tougher circumstance. It's like listening to parents who won't be honest with themselves about their children.

When the Texans do make the playoffs this year, because I do think everything is falling in place for them to do so, I'm sure how we'll hear that Kubiak proved his doubters wrong even though it took him 6 years just to make the first round. He'll get his extension and the making the playoffs will be our SB to those fans. I just wish more for AJ. He deserves better.
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Old 10-13-2011   #271
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
Faster? Umm, it's taken them 50 years!!! And no point in going over picks as Cak pointed out quite succinctly.
Apparently you didn't read one word I said. You're just taking 50 years of poor history and running with it, even though it has nothing to do with the conversation when we're specifically talking about Schwartz's success in the small amount of time that he has had to turn this team around.
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Old 10-13-2011   #272
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

You wanna crown their ass, then crown their ass.....

But there is a 11 games to go so, let's not go around jerking each other off just yet, for winning the Super Bowl in October.

Bucs 3-2
Chefs 2-3
Vikes 1-4 (had to go to OT)
Gurls 2-2
Bears 2-3

Combined record of 10-14

They still have the Niners, Bears one more time, the Packers twice, Saints, Raiders, and Chargers.
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Old 10-13-2011   #273
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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None of these same guys were predicting that the Lions would be some top team in the NFL this year or proclaimed the Lions as this "lucky team" to break out because of those picks before.
The rest of your post, 100% agree. This part, not so much. I doubt there was anyone here other than me saying the Lions weren't onto something when it was just Stafford & Johnson.. adding Suh.... pssh.

Now, I haven't resorted to the "benefits of all those picks" excuse... but the guys arguing you on this point right now have been very envious of those picks for a while.

I believe they even predicted the Lions success.
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Old 10-13-2011   #274
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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In the past I've been told we can't be compared to the turnaround of teams like the Falcons because they had a good base, they just recovered from a bad year or two. The Texans didn't have that base.
I believe this. You can't expect Kubiak to rebuild the Texans in two years like other coaches have done, because the Texans were never built to begin with.

5 years.... yeah, we should have seen something better than a 9-7 to 6-10 regression in that time.

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Now we can't be compared to the Lions because they were so bad and got so many high draft picks. The Texans didn't have the luxury of those picks.
I don't subscribe to this.... doesn't make sense. If people are saying the Lions GM has been working his ass off, accumulating first day picks & making them pay off, that's one argument with merit.

Our front office hasn't got a clue how to work the draft. Not good, if you're trying to build through the draft.
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It's that blasted Texans luck; they have been too bad to get to the playoffs, but too good to get better.
Yup....
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Old 10-13-2011   #275
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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However, I'm not ready to crown them until they face the really good NFC teams, too. Especially playing the Packers twice, because GB is a team that has had no drop-off after their championship, and it could be argued that they have actually improved with so many players coming back from injuries.
:
Agreed.

If they beat the Packers once, I'd be impressed. If they beat the Bears at home, I'd be impressed.... not that the Bears are a great team or anything, but Urlacher won't let them lose to the Lions at home.

Minnesota..... Kansas City... pssh...
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Old 10-13-2011   #276
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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When the Texans do make the playoffs this year, because I do think everything is falling in place for them to do so, I'm sure how we'll hear that Kubiak proved his doubters wrong even though it took him 6 years just to make the first round. He'll get his extension and the making the playoffs will be our SB to those fans. I just wish more for AJ. He deserves better.
If Kubiak gets us to the AFC Championship game, I might say something like that.

Anything short of an AFC Championship berth, I want him gone! Gone! GONE!!!

& I think he's a good coach.
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Old 10-13-2011   #277
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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If Kubiak gets us to the AFC Championship game, I might say something like that.

Anything short of an AFC Championship berth, I want him gone! Gone! GONE!!!

& I think he's a good coach.
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Old 10-13-2011   #278
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

AJ has chosen to be here after his rookie contract.
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Old 10-14-2011   #279
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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AJ has chosen to be here after his rookie contract.
yeah he is one of the few. wonder what is so appealing to the city ?
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Old 10-14-2011   #280
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Default Re: Kubiaks Demise.

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yeah he is one of the few. wonder what is so appealing to the city ?
Can't beat "This Is It" and "The Breakfast Klub."
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