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Old 09-20-2011   #1
srrono
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Default Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

http://blog.houstontexans.com/2011/0...ceiving-lists/

Every week, we’ll track Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson as he climbs the all-time receptions and receiving yardage charts in his ninth NFL season. This might be a year or two early, but I like history, so sue me.

Through two games in 2011, Johnson ranks 36th in NFL history in receptions (687) and 40th in receiving yards (9,352). The five-time Pro Bowler needs 80 receptions and 1,598 receiving yards to break into the top 25 all-time in both categories.

Stats and information in this post provided by the Texans’ public relations department.

MOST RECEPTIONS, NFL HISTORY
Rk Player Years Rec.
31 Andre Rison 1989-00 (12) 743
32 Donald Driver* 1999-11 (13) 703
33 Joey Galloway 1995-10 (16) 701
34 Gary Clark 1985-95 (11) 699
35 Terance Mathis 1990-02 (13) 689
36 Andre Johnson* 2003-11 (9) 687
37 Laveranues Coles 2000-09 (10) 674
*indicates active players

Notes: Johnson passed Coles for 36th all-time in Week 1. He was the second-fastest player in NFL history to 600 catches, reaching the milestone in 104th career game (Week 2 at Washington in 2010). Ravens receiver Anquan Boldin has since reached 600 receptions in fewer games, making Johnson third-fastest all-time.

MOST RECEIVING YARDS, NFL HISTORY
Rk Player Years Yds.
36 Drew Hill 1979-93 (14) 9,831
37 Donald Driver* 1999-11 (13) 9,666
38 Amani Toomer 1996-08 (13) 9,497
39 Rob Moore 1990-99 (10) 9,368
40 Andre Johnson* 2003-11 (9) 9,352
41 Raymond Berry 1955-67 (13) 9,275
*indicates active players

Notes: Johnson passed Berry for 40th all-time in Week 2. He was the sixth-fastest player in NFL history to 9,000 receiving yards, reaching the milestone in his 114th career game (Week 14 vs. Baltimore in 2010).
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Old 09-20-2011   #2
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

What's even more amazing is that he's accomplished this with 4 years of David Carr throwing the ball.
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Old 09-20-2011   #3
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

Interesting to see this on here today.

Yesterday I was puzzling over Johnson being the Texans first HOFer.

I know most of the people on here think he is a lock but I'm not sure. Looking at the names he is compared to in this article, its no lock.

If Chris Carter, Andre Reed and Tim Brown aren't in the hall why will AJ make it?
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Old 09-20-2011   #4
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

(Puts on flame retardant suit)
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Old 09-20-2011   #5
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Interesting to see this on here today.

Yesterday I was puzzling over Johnson being the Texans first HOFer.

I know most of the people on here think he is a lock but I'm not sure. Looking at the names he is compared to in this article, its no lock.

If Chris Carter, Andre Reed and Tim Brown aren't in the hall why will AJ make it?
Main reason...

Because those 3 WRs that you mentioned WILL ALL be in the hall one day ...as will A.J. and Andre's story is still being written.

The only thing that hurts Andre is his T.D. totals...and that's the ONLY thing that's hurting him, but in the end that won't hurt him all that much. Because whoever from Houston is arguing his case to the voters (whether that be McClain or whoever) they'll be able to make the case that unlike those other 3 guys, Andre Johnson never played with a "elite" QB who could really "put it on him". Andre gets the same red zone catches those guys do. What he's lacking is the big bomb T.D.s He's off to a good start this season with his T.D. totals, so hopefully he'll finally get his "double digit" TD season.
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Old 09-21-2011   #6
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Interesting to see this on here today.

Yesterday I was puzzling over Johnson being the Texans first HOFer.

I know most of the people on here think he is a lock but I'm not sure. Looking at the names he is compared to in this article, its no lock.

If Chris Carter, Andre Reed and Tim Brown aren't in the hall why will AJ make it?
Those other guys were never considered one of the best two or three WRs for a five year stretch. They were considered very prolific receivers, but that's not exactly the same. I think Reed was the most highly regarded of that list during his playing days, despite the insanely high reception totals that Cris Carter put up. And Tim Brown was always highly regarded, and was one of the most consistent WRs ever, but I don't think he gets much run as the best WR of his era.

Part of all that is probably because Rice was outplaying all of them, LOL.
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Old 09-21-2011   #7
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

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The only thing that hurts Andre is his T.D. totals...and that's the ONLY thing that's hurting him, but in the end that won't hurt him all that much.
I'll be honest - his TD totals bug the crap out of me. Part of the problem is the lack of a QB for a while, a wasted 2005 season when he was never thrown the ball more than 7 yards from the LOS, and the schemes in which he's played. He also seemed to lead the league in catches to the 1-yd line for a few seasons there, LOL. But mostly, people like to compare him to Jerry Rice, and all I can think of every time I hear that is Jerry Rice catching some little slant or drag, making a couple people miss, and taking it to the house ..... over and over and over again. Rice didn't really play in a vertical offense either, but he made TDs out of plays that very few receivers do today, not even AJ. And now, AJ does play in a more vertical offense than he used to.

And the thing is, I always hated Rice, in the impersonal way that you hate a really good player. I want AJ to be the next Jerry Rice. But it's just not going to happen. But as this team enters what should be its prime window of opportunity, I would at least like to see AJ notch a few seasons fo double digit TDs.

None of this diminishes my esteem for AJ. He is my all time favorite WR for sure. He is to the WR position what Earl was to the RB position. Sure, you can argue that Jim Brown was greater, but I'm just not hearing it. I'm pretty close to that place with AJ vs. Rice. It's just hard to ignore those numbers by Rice.
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Old 09-21-2011   #8
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

WR is a pretty hard position to call for the HOF.
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Old 09-21-2011   #9
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

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I'll be honest - his TD totals bug the crap out of me. Part of the problem is the lack of a QB for a while, a wasted 2005 season when he was never thrown the ball more than 7 yards from the LOS, and the schemes in which he's played. He also seemed to lead the league in catches to the 1-yd line for a few seasons there, LOL. But mostly, people like to compare him to Jerry Rice, and all I can think of every time I hear that is Jerry Rice catching some little slant or drag, making a couple people miss, and taking it to the house ..... over and over and over again. Rice didn't really play in a vertical offense either, but he made TDs out of plays that very few receivers do today, not even AJ. And now, AJ does play in a more vertical offense than he used to.

And the thing is, I always hated Rice, in the impersonal way that you hate a really good player. I want AJ to be the next Jerry Rice. But it's just not going to happen. But as this team enters what should be its prime window of opportunity, I would at least like to see AJ notch a few seasons fo double digit TDs.

None of this diminishes my esteem for AJ. He is my all time favorite WR for sure. He is to the WR position what Earl was to the RB position. Sure, you can argue that Jim Brown was greater, but I'm just not hearing it. I'm pretty close to that place with AJ vs. Rice. It's just hard to ignore those numbers by Rice.
There area so many factors that you can't ignore with Rice vs. Andre as well. Rice played in an offense that was almost ahead of its time surrounded by weapons all over the place.

I agree that Andre should have more touchdowns at this point in his career based on the numbers he's put up, but I think he'll accumulate those as his career progresses. Both TO and Moss put up high TD numbers later in their career. I think AJ can do the same.
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Old 09-21-2011   #10
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

Brown was a great ST player too.

Reed was a key piece in 4 Superbowl teams.

AJ can't claim either.
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Old 09-21-2011   #11
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texn4life
I agree that Andre should have more touchdowns at this point in his career based on the numbers he's put up, but I think he'll accumulate those as his career progresses. Both TO and Moss put up high TD numbers later in their career. I think AJ can do the same.
AJ has played 8 seasons. He had 50 receiving TDs through those 8 seasons. I'm not looking at this year yet.

Rice as the obvious standard bearer had 103 TDs through 8 seasons. That's just ..... wow.

Randy Moss had 98 TDs in his first 8 years. TO had 81 receiving TDs. Marvin Harrison is a bad example, but will be considered to have played in roughly the same era, and had 83 TDs his first 8 seasons. Largent had 60 TDs back in the late 70s and early 80s in his first 8 seasons. Fitzgerald has only played 7 years and has 65 TDs. Roddy White and Calvin Johnson already have 38 and 37, respectively, and they've played much shorter careers.

AJ is going to be judged against these guys. And he has the edge in many areas, especially in yards per game. But as the game continues to turn into a video game and the stats go right along with it, you have to wonder if that will cause a few voters to withhold their votes.

At the end of the day, it's all about playoff performances, though. If the Texans win a SB and he plays well, he's an absolute lock. He's almost a lock as it is.
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Old 09-21-2011   #12
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
AJ has played 8 seasons. He had 50 receiving TDs through those 8 seasons. I'm not looking at this year yet.

Rice as the obvious standard bearer had 103 TDs through 8 seasons. That's just ..... wow.

Randy Moss had 98 TDs in his first 8 years. TO had 81 receiving TDs. Marvin Harrison is a bad example, but will be considered to have played in roughly the same era, and had 83 TDs his first 8 seasons. Largent had 60 TDs back in the late 70s and early 80s in his first 8 seasons. Fitzgerald has only played 7 years and has 65 TDs. Roddy White and Calvin Johnson already have 38 and 37, respectively, and they've played much shorter careers.

AJ is going to be judged against these guys. And he has the edge in many areas, especially in yards per game. But as the game continues to turn into a video game and the stats go right along with it, you have to wonder if that will cause a few voters to withhold their votes.

At the end of the day, it's all about playoff performances, though. If the Texans win a SB and he plays well, he's an absolute lock. He's almost a lock as it is.

I agree with you completely. Its the ONLY knock anyone can throw out there about him right now. But if he can get to 100+ touchdowns then I believe he'll had a really good chance to reach Canton. Unfortunately no one will have sympathy because we had David Carr throwing to him early in his career. If we get to the playoffs and have continued success for the rest of his career then those really good chances become great.

50 TD's over the next 4 years isn't out of the question if we give him opportunities. I know he hasn't had a double digit TD season yet in his career but I have a hard time believing that will continue to be the case.
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Old 09-21-2011   #13
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

My concern in the era of stat inflation is that numbers alone won't cut it.
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Old 09-21-2011   #14
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Interesting to see this on here today.

Yesterday I was puzzling over Johnson being the Texans first HOFer.

I know most of the people on here think he is a lock but I'm not sure. Looking at the names he is compared to in this article, its no lock.

If Chris Carter, Andre Reed and Tim Brown aren't in the hall why will AJ make it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
(Puts on flame retardant suit)
No need for the suit. I'm STILL wondering why the HoF selection folks are so anti-WR.
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Old 09-21-2011   #15
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

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No need for the suit. I'm STILL wondering why the HoF selection folks are so anti-WR.
See kiwi's post above. A lot of it is because many HoF voters see that position as having inflated stats in a pass happy era of the game.
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Old 09-21-2011   #16
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

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My concern in the era of stat inflation is that numbers alone won't cut it.
That actually plays into AJ's hands, IMO. He's one of the few WRs that transcends the stats. People watch AJ play and they know beyond the shadow of a doubt that he's better than his stats. But there's no doubt, he needs the playoff performances to seal the deal.
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Old 09-21-2011   #17
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

My case for him to be in the hall of fame would be simple (if the stats hold true as they do now):

1. Andre retires as the all-time leader in reception yards per game.

2. Andre retires with the most 10+ catch/100+ yard games of any WR.

3. I show film of Andre being the best run-blocking WR of his era.


and finally, call it homer-ism, but:

4. I show the video of Andre bowling over three LB/S in our loss to the Cardinals. - This, to me, shows that Andre was the best all-around WR of his era. Fitzgerald makes some insane catches, but how is his blocking? Can he run through defenders lining him up for a killshot?

I think Andre's biggest knock so far is that he hasn't had a chance to shine on a big stage. Didn't O.J. only go to the playoffs once or twice? I know he was a stat-machine, but surely there's hall of fame players out there that are in for more than just stats.
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Old 09-21-2011   #18
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

Pro Johnson angles:

- AJ was the most iconic player on his team.

- He was considered the best wideout in the league for a number of years.

- No character issues.

- Stats are as good as anyone for catches, yards and yrds/game.

- Had WOW moments.
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Old 09-21-2011   #19
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

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2. Marvin Harrison 1,102
3. Cris Carter 1,101
4. Tim Brown 1,094
5. Tony Gonzalez(34) 1,081

Yards
1. Jerry Rice+ 22,895
2. Terrell Owens(37) 15,934
3. Isaac Bruce 15,208
4. Tim Brown 14,934
5. Randy Moss(33) 14,858

Touchdowns
1. Jerry Rice+ 197
2. Randy Moss(33) 153
2. Terrell Owens(37) 153
4. Cris Carter 130
5. Marvin Harrison 128
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Old 09-21-2011   #20
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Default Re: Tracking Johnson on the all-time receiving lists

AJ - 117 games, 687 receptions, 9352 yards, 52 TD's
Rice - 303 games, 1549 receptions, 22895 yards, 197 TD's

AJ projected over 303 games - 1779 receptions, 24219 yards, 135 TD's.

And to think he spent four years without a QB. What would his numbers look like if he had played with Schaub his whole career?
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